Feud Between Apple and Qualcomm Continues as Apple Stops Paying iPhone Royalties Completely [Updated]

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. kdarling macrumors P6

    kdarling

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    #126
    There are later charts, but a major point of FRAND is that rates do not change much over time :)

    If you're not too lazy, you can always research their rates on your own. Let us know if you find anything different from what I've posted. Thanks.

    It's not just so-called normal, it IS one quite normal, valid way of licensing patents. This is indisputable. As for a smartphone, without cellular it becomes just a plain WiFi device like an iPod touch. But see below:

    Certainly a popular feeling these days is that royalties should be based only on a patent's contribution towards the entire device. Determining that contribution can be difficult though.

    For example, when sued for infringement, Apple's lawyers always claim that Apple should pay just pennies for anyone else's patents -- even if they're core technology. Yet when Apple sues someone else like Samsung, suddenly minor UI patents with workarounds are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in damages :rolleyes:

    As for paying by product price, here's a great example of doing that: Apple taking 30% of app sales!

    Storing a $1,000 app costs the same as doing so for a $1 app. So why does an app developer have to pay Apple $300 in the first case, and only 30 cents in the second case. Because it's exactly like the way Qualcomm and other cellular patent holders charge: by using a fixed percentage of the price, so those who make more, pay more.
     
  2. Septembersrain, Apr 28, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017

    Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #127
    Great more crappy Intel modems for everyone!

    Ugh. I've had terrible luck on my T-Mobile 7 Plus with my data, calls and my 6s doesn't experience them.

    Edit: So in my eyes as Apple charges us more they get charged more. Should we all start suing because they are using unfair business models to charge us out the ying yang too?
     
  3. Glideslope macrumors 603

    Glideslope

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    #128
    Give Intel a chance. They are entering a new chapter along with ARM Fabrication. Do not underestimate them. :apple:
     
  4. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #129
    I sure hope they've learned from using us as a model that they need major improvement. You've got a multitude of people moving through a device to get a Qualcomm. Those of us with Intel feel very sighted by Apple. We've got a product that only works with GSM and has multiple complaints. We didn't pay less for having less. Apple is just as bad as Qualcomm.
     
  5. Abazigal macrumors G4

    Abazigal

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    #130
    Apple - "If you don't lower the price of Qualcomm chips, we're going to make Intel the standard"
    Qualcomm - "You can't be serious. They're slower and everyone knows it."
    Apple - "Ask nVidia."
    Qualcomm - "..........crap"
     
  6. I7guy macrumors Core

    I7guy

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    #131
    There is a clear difference between licensing patent technology and going to the courts to protect your(or apples) intellectual and/or patents. The app store example is a retail operation and the price has nothing to do with how much the storage costs to store the apps. It's like saying Macy's should set the price of suits based on the cost of the cash register and not on the inherent value.
     
  7. MrX8503 macrumors 68020

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    #132
    That logic is flawed because I buy the phone for the WHOLE EXPERIENCE.

    Non Apple users don't understand that.
     
  8. grkm3 macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 12, 2013
    #133
    I don't get it apple...just buy the damn Qualcomm modem and put it inside the phone.

    You don't have to design or do anything and the new gs8 is using it and can hit 1gb speeds.
     
  9. techwhiz macrumors 6502a

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    Northern Ca.
    #134
    So sell a phone with no modem......
    --- Post Merged, Apr 28, 2017 ---
    Qualcomm says we don't care because Intel also pays a licensing fee. We own the core technology.
     
  10. jase1125 macrumors 6502

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    Texas
    #135
    Milk 'em Qualcomm for all you can get and then some...
     
  11. alexgowers macrumors 65816

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    #136
    From the sounds of it apple is being charged higher rates than competitors. Qualcomm have also not been paying back money owed to apple from some kind of rebait system. I'm very rarely on the side of apple in these cases but I really hate patents being used unfairly like organised crime protection rackets. They should either be licensed fairly to everyone or not at all. I'm always surprised apple can't involve themselves in next gen standards to become a licensee like Nokia used to be.
     
  12. Delgibbons, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017

    Delgibbons macrumors 6502a

    Delgibbons

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    #137
    As we've said before, Qualcomm's demands are unreasonable and they have been charging higher rates based on our innovation, not their own."

    Apple and innovation? Go home Apple, you're drunk. Previous gen intel chips in a "PRO" laptop. One or two USB ports.

    Develop your own screens and memory like Samsung, or develop a decent modem like Qualcomm (or just use Intel's far inferior solution) then we can talk about innovation.

    Hell Apple's entire profit is based on the genius of the ARM company giving power saving mobile chips.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 29, 2017 ---
    Look at all the patents innovative Apple own....

    Oh.
     
  13. dilbert99 macrumors 68020

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    #138
    It should be resolved through the courts, not by one side ceasing payments.
     
  14. Glideslope macrumors 603

    Glideslope

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    #139
    In some areas yes. Apple can be just as nasty. However, if you look closely you'll notice the Intel Modem has it's limitations due to Qualcomm Licensing constraints more than an inability to fabricate. :apple:
     
  15. thisisnotmyname macrumors 68000

    thisisnotmyname

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    #140
    Qualcomm's stock price would crater.
     
  16. ROSSMUNCH macrumors newbie

    ROSSMUNCH

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    #141
    I'd climb out of the hole and change horses if I was you.
    Their royalty scheme has it's days numbered.
     
  17. justperry macrumors G3

    justperry

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    #142
    Oh, I agree, I just responded to that poster that more or less said it's Apple's fault, we don't know this, so I replied back with my comment.
     
  18. Rob_2811 macrumors 68000

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    United Kingdom
    #143
    And put out a poorer product as a result.

    Apple admitted that they throttled the Qualcomm iPhone 7 because the performance outstripped the models with Intel modems. Graphics performance on Macs is dire for similar reasons.

    Very odd that people would be pleased about Apple products with inferior components just to boost their already huge profit margins. Unless they hold Apple stock at which point you can't really take their opinion seriously.
     
  19. tooltalk macrumors 6502

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    #144
    I don't get the nVidia reference.
     
  20. I7guy macrumors Core

    I7guy

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    #145
    Even though Apple throttled the performance downloads could still hit a healthy amount, what use cases does one need 400-500 down, more than most home internet connections, even while tethering. Except for bragging rights I suspect most of the iPhone population does not require 500 down.

    In that vein why wouldn't I be pleased with my iPhone and simultaneously care about apples profit margin? I find it odd that people care about apples margins, except as an Internet talking point.
     
  21. Rob_2811 macrumors 68000

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    #146
    Right but the comparison to the AMD/Nvidia graphics issue was a terrible one.

    The use of AMD cards is why graphics performance on the Mac is a joke. It's nonsense to suggest that is an internet talking point only.
     
  22. I7guy macrumors Core

    I7guy

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    #147
    I wasn't referring to amd cards, nor do I have a Mac with one, only to the references to lte download speed.
     
  23. Rob_2811 macrumors 68000

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    #148
    My post, which you have just responded to, was a response to another post which compared this situation to the Apple switching to using AMD graphics cards in Macs from Nvidia.

    The use of inferior components because of Apples refusal to pay the appropriate royalties might not have hindered real world performance of the iPhone 7 but it certainly has the Mac.
     
  24. vmistery macrumors 6502a

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    UK
    #149
    I'm not sure how people can be taking sides here as no one here has all the facts yet. At the moment all we really know is Apple are not (indirectly) paying Qualcomm for some reason. Two US companies having a spat over something which is in every single iPhone made before the Intel chips in some 7s is indeed a big deal however, I am interested to find out who is at fault. It does seem odd to pay anything at all however.
     
  25. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #150
    Just like TSMC/Samsung, now Qualcomm/Intel. It feels like some of us get inferior hardware while others get their superior ones throttled to meet the inferior one.

    That's not making good leaps and bounds with the technological front.
     

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