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Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by loungecorps, Feb 11, 2011.
It's the program the client wants me use
Why does the client dictate what software you use?
I got a picky client that thinks he knows everything & i'm not in a position to turn down work right now.
all in all it doesn't really matter I can still get the job done. I'm just getting sick of people asking me to cut in FCP when I work twice as fast with avid.
I don't know the OPs situation but sometimes people already have established workflows and freelancers have to conform to them. And sometimes people just ask for something specific because they've heard a bunch of hype and don't want to feel like they are missing out on what's hot.
loungecorps, at least you know both so you can still get the job and get paid.
Well if you charge them by the hour...
Funny. I never thought I'd see the day where someone is requesting FCP over Avid.
Why is Avid so much better than FCP? What are the significant difference between these two NLE's other than one has been on the market longer? Just curious...
The difference is I know Avid better.
It's time to get more comfortable with FCP though. I just figured out you can have 5 keyboard layouts in FCP, that opens crazy doors
"Better" is subjective. My comment was merely addressing the many years that Avid has been known as the "industry standard." Truthfully, most NLEs perform similarly. The power is in the hands of the editor.
But as touched on before, clients are usually technically challenged and like hearing things like "industry standard" and knowing that the last 5 major Hollywood blockbusters were cut on an Avid. Therefore, their project must be cut on the same. They don't know any better. The same holds true on the production side of things when clients feel much more comfortable by simply seeing a nice matte box thrown on the camera.
There are some differences between the two, but it's mostly some minor interface and file management things. It's not like you can't do something on an Avid that you can't do on FCP. Final Cut really caught on in the prosumer market and then spread to more professional applications. But they're all good at what they do and even Final Cut has become stagnant lately. Until Apple shows its direction with their Pro Applications, I've been more inclined to recommend Premiere to people lately, even over Avid.
I agree with everything except the recommending Premiere.... Admittedly Im a Final Cut person over AVID, but Id take either FCP/AVID over Premiere, just as the UI for Premiere is diabolical.... at least in my opinion. - that and the fact I get Final Cut Studio for less than Premiere costs, so why not get the better of the 2 (FCS), which can do a lot more than Adobes product line.
I don't really find much different with Premiere's UI. And I'm sure that if I had to work with it regularly I would get accustomed to it. I cut with Final Cut daily so that is still my NLE of choice, but I think Adobe has really stepped up its game recently, while with Apple it's still just wild speculation on what the next FCP will bring.
I strongly disagree with you when you say FCS can do more than Adobe's product line. The comparable Adobe product would be the Production Premium package. It does cost more, but you definitely get much more than FCS offers (After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, etc.).
I messed around with adobe's production premium my main complaint is that it does not accept avid aaf files I was hoping to speed up my round trips between avid, AE, Color. but It just doesnt work & adobe media encoder has messed up just about everytime i've used it. I just don't trust them even if it is 64bit, I'll stick with what is reliable
Twice the time = twice the day rate
unless this is a flat fee job
And I agree, I hate going from NLE to NLE. The speed just isn't there with different keyboard shortcuts and menus and bleh. I work so seldom now in Avid that I am slow as hell compared to FCP. But, like you said, getting paid is getting paid.
FCS does do more than Production Premium from a Video Editing perspective (So we can ignore just about 80% of Adobe CS5) - all thats really useful is AE, PS, Illustrator, Flash and Premiere. DVD Studio Pro is massively better than Encore, and Soundtrack Pro vs SoundBooth - seriously, Soundtrack Pro has a lot more features, and is massively more useful, at least from my experience. The only thing Adobe does better than FCS is After Effects vs Motion, and if you only have one or the other, there are some capabilities of FCS that Adobe doesn't have at all, especially in Color, which doesnt even have an Adobe equivalent, at least not yet. The fact Adobe CS5 is ridiculously expensive doesn't really help, especially for someone like me who works on a tight budget.
Each system has its pros and cons. (Except premiere which is just terrible IMO).
I use both FCP and AVID and would consider myself to be very proficient in both. I have done many broadcast and cable shows, news packages, promos, web videos etc....
AVID is a much better system for long form editing and projects that are not under a tight deadline (news story timing). It is much quicker to edit with, but the time it takes to load in files (for it to create Avid Media Files and traslate quicktimes).
FCP can load in files immediately and you can begin editing. You dont have the same options as you do in AVID when it comes to fine tuning and that seems to take more time. Since it is software based and takes multiple file types, it needs a lot more render time. (Avid MC can also be software based but still more real time). So the main reason I would use FCP is for short form videos.
Many times a client is the one to dictate what program you need to use because that is what they have at their studio.
The best advice to everyone is to learn both programs. That is how you will make money. Before I learned FCP (I was working in an Avid house for 7 years then got laid off) I had to turn down work and when you are out of work that is painful.
I think you're really glossing over what you're getting in Adobe's package. If I was forced to only use one of the suites and not allowed to sample from both, then I'd easily choose Adobe simply because of After Effects and Photoshop. They're irreplaceable for me.
I will admit that Apple's suite does some things better but your claims of FCS being better for editing are largely anecdotal. I'll give you Color, but for beginner or even intermediate users it's pretty much overkill. I don't have much familiarity with either audio solution as I use Logic for everything I do. So I'll give you Soundtrack too. Motion still can't compete with After Effects as far as I'm concerned. It's come a long way, but in today's landscape where motion graphics are integral to most productions, After Effects is still the clear winner. I don't do much outputting to DVD either, but Encore's interfacing with After Effects and Photoshop is awesome. And the fact that you can actually author Blu-Ray is a plus too. As for Premiere, where it beats FCP is with 64 bit support, the Mercury playback engine, dynamic linking, and real-time effect editing.
And I don't mean to sound like an Adobe shill here either. I still prefer FCP and use it everyday. I just think a lot of the opinions on Adobe out there are uninformed and come from blind loyalty to Apple.
My point still remains as this. Apple has not given any indication to where the future of their Pro Apps is heading. Adobe has tremendously stepped up its game and its evident by some big studios and broadcast facilities migrating to Adobe. Until we see Apple's next move, it's difficult to recommend them to someone looking to get into this when there are other excellent platforms out there keeping up with today's technologies.
I agree with the above statement but Motion and After Effects can not really be compared apples to apples. Motion is more of a motion effect program. It does not give you the best options for layering and keying etc... but does the basics very well. After effects is a compositing program. It expands way beyond what motion can do. For a vast majority of people that want the basic no frills stuff Motion is fine. For a professional environment I wouldnt use Motion for anything but an additional tool to After Effects.
I dont know any studios of broadcast facilities that are going to Adobe. Most have the Adobe Suite but that is for After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator.
Avid still dominates the professional market and Final Cut is slowly working its way up to a close second. Premier is no where close to any of those applications.
I agree that you can't really compare the two, but for the point of the suite comparison they're as close to each other as you can get. But that just stressed my original point. You're getting something with After Effects that nothing in FCS can compete with.
Adobe has netted some big names recently. Here's a pretty big one:
I recall reading some other higher end post houses going that route as well in some of the industry magazines. I can't remember any off the top of my head. Of course it's not commonplace and Avid still rules the market, but Adobe has become a big competitor.
This is why Im so glad I have Motion, Shake 4 and AE... (Yes Shake is shaky, but it does at least do something.. wish theyd developed it further really, as with some effort it couldve merged with Motion and really beaten AE.)
This is exactly what I've been telling people now for the last year or so. I grew up being a Photoshop/Dreamweaver/Flash web developer and moved into video about 4 years ago. I started with Final Cut over Avid because of being a former fanboy, got certified, and it was ok. However, when CS5 came out, I decided to make my next full length feature doc on Premiere because of the Mercury Playback, 64 bit processing and dynamic link. Guess how easy it was to learn with all my other Adobe experience? Practically seamless!
Plus, I can edit natively all of my EX3 Full HD footage in real time with no slowdown. I dumped FCP and I'm glad. I still may send out to Color for grading, but I won't be doing that because it will be done professionally.
I really don't think Apple is going to ever catch up again because they don't want to. They could spend the money, they have oogles of it, but they just don't care about their pro users anymore. If they did, they would have made the FC7 upgrade an actual serious one.
FCS is still ok with DVD Studio Pro, though I believe Encore is better with the Photoshop scripting support, integration and Blue-Ray support. Nothing still beats Color for grading properly, I will give it that. Everything else, well, see ya Apple. It's becoming an AVID and Adobe world an the NLE with one more screwup on your part.
hey, bring back 2" quad, then i would get paid more