File sharing between Big Sur and Leopard

[mikiotty]

Hi everyone!
I’ve been missing from the PowerPC scene for a while. Yesterday I bought an Early 2005 Dual 2.0GHz G5. I plan to do some retro gaming on it.
The main issue I’m having is with file sharing. I have a Mac Mini that runs Big Sur with all my shared files stored on it (all on HFS+ volumes) but I can’t access them from the G5, as AFP is no longer available and SMB doesn’t seem to be working. I can access my G5 from the Mini, but I want to be able to do the opposite.
Is there a solution? Thank you!

 

[Amethyst1]

You could try setting up a FTP server on the mini and accessing that from the G5… That’s how I’d do it “quickly-and-dirtily”.

 

[B S Magnet]

You could try setting up a FTP server on the mini and accessing that from the G5… That’s how I’d do it “quickly-and-dirtily”.

Do you (or anyone on here) know whether there is viability in using macports on Big Sur or Monterey to install a SMB/CIFS sever/client like samba4?

As for Apple abandoning both SMB and AFP (especially so with the latter), I imagine doing this evokes a stronger case for Apple to steer people toward cloud file exchange and away from doing everything internally within one’s own home (or office) network.

To the OP: you may also still be able to handle single file exchanges via Bluetooth, provided your Power Mac G5 is equipped with Bluetooth (it was an option on all but the final series) or you’ve added it with a third-party USB BT adapter.

 

[eyoungren]

@mikiotty You might try installing DAVE on the G5. Apple didn't update to use the industry standard SAMBA (SMB/CIFs) until Mavericks I believe. DAVE was the answer for that era of Macs.

You can find a copy of it on macintoshgarden. It's by Thursby software.

 

[eyoungren]

As for Apple abandoning both SMB and AFP (especially so with the latter), I imagine doing this evokes a stronger case for Apple to steer people toward cloud file exchange and away from doing everything internally within one’s own home (or office) network.

My understanding of all of this was that Apple finally caved and gave in to the industry standard for SMB with Mavericks. Since they did that, there was no longer any reason to support AFP anymore because Unix/Linux/Windows does not natively use it. In fact, past Windows XP, Microsoft makes it very difficult to get the AFP protocol installed. That's because Apple licensed it, which is why old versions of File Services for Mac (FSM, on older Windows Server installs) has an OS7 era version of AFP. MS never updated it.

Apple implementing the standard for SMB is what caused DAVE and AdmitMac to become legacy software.

So…once again the industry forced Apple to auto-correct.

 

[mikiotty]

@mikiotty You might try installing DAVE on the G5. Apple didn't update to use the industry standard SAMBA (SMB/CIFs) until Mavericks I believe. DAVE was the answer for that era of Macs.

You can find a copy of it on macintoshgarden. It's by Thursby software.

I will try for sure, thank you!

 

[bloedmage]

if you don't mind using the command line, you could try installing Netatalk. It's an open source AppleTalk server.
Easiest way to get it running is probably in a Docker image.
Apparently you can also install it using Mac ports, but dunno if that's working at the moment.

If your really want to push it, there is also Netatalk-classic which makes it possible for a classic compact Mac to connect to modern PCs.

 

[whiskersld]

You could try setting up a FTP server on the mini and accessing that from the G5… That’s how I’d do it “quickly-and-dirtily”.

Apple killed ftp sharing even before mojave, he might have to use a 3rd party app

 

[mikiotty]

@mikiotty You might try installing DAVE on the G5. Apple didn't update to use the industry standard SAMBA (SMB/CIFs) until Mavericks I believe. DAVE was the answer for that era of Macs.

You can find a copy of it on macintoshgarden. It's by Thursby software.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to work properly on 10.5. It fails to load the cifs daemon ?

 

[B S Magnet]

Apple implementing the standard for SMB is what caused DAVE and AdmitMac to become legacy software.

So…once again the industry forced Apple to auto-correct.

Thanks for the clarification.

It is, nevertheless, frustrating how the current implementation standard of SMB on the later macOS versions is unable to gracefully fall back to connect to earlier SMB/CIFS servers (i.e., versions bundled with versions of OS X prior to, say, Mavericks). When, at one time, one could connect two OS X Macs via LAN using AFP, SMB, FTP, or even NFS (the latter requiring a bit of know-how), it appears current macOS iterations implement the current SMB standard only, and, as far as I know, still supports some implementation of NFS.

This does complicate network interoperability between older and newer Apple hardware — something I’m mindful Apple don’t advocate.

 

[eyoungren]

Thanks for the clarification.

It is, nevertheless, frustrating how the current implementation standard of SMB on the later macOS versions is unable to gracefully fall back to connect to earlier SMB/CIFS servers (i.e., versions bundled with versions of OS X prior to, say, Mavericks). When, at one time, one could connect two OS X Macs via LAN using AFP, SMB, FTP, or even NFS (the latter requiring a bit of know-how), it appears current macOS iterations implement the current SMB standard only, and, as far as I know, still supports some implementation of NFS.

This does complicate network interoperability between older and newer Apple hardware — something I’m mindful Apple don’t advocate.

I usually make all my server connections via the "Connect to Server" box from Finder. You can force a connection type in there.

For instance:

CIFS://192.168.0.11 would force a CIFS (SMB1) connection to my L2009 Mini in the garage. Using SMB://192.168.0.11 would be SMB2/3 and so on.

Is that how you connect, or are you simply connecting via the sidebar (or other means)? If the latter, then yes, the Mac is going to choose SMB2 and not CIFS or AFP.

PS. I have recently discovered that there is some sort of bug in Mojave that causes SMB connections to shared drives to drop after a couple of hours. I've gone back to using AFP to connect to my Minis.

 

[B S Magnet]

I usually make all my server connections via the "Connect to Server" box from Finder. You can force a connection type in there.

For instance:

CIFS://192.168.0.11 would force a CIFS (SMB1) connection to my L2009 Mini in the garage. Using SMB://192.168.0.11 would be SMB2/3 and so on.

Is that how you connect, or are you simply connecting via the sidebar (or other means)? If the latter, then yes, the Mac is going to choose SMB2 and not CIFS or AFP.

PS. I have recently discovered that there is some sort of bug in Mojave that causes SMB connections to shared drives to drop after a couple of hours. I've gone back to using AFP to connect to my Minis.

Nah, I virtually never use the sidebar. I have a whole family of saved static IP addresses for my internal Macs:

You’ll also notice I use afp for all of them (including my Macs running High Sierra). I use AFP across them all because it’s one of those “it just works” features. From time to time, I may try an SMB connection to the same addresses when AFP unexpectedly stops responding, to verify whether it’s a network or server issue.

What I didn’t know until your reply here is one, whilst using a more recent macOS build, can explicitly specify the earlier SMB standard by using CIFS:// in lieu of SMB:// (thank you!). I may give that a try, especially should I bring in a system with something like Mojave or later. There are, however, no immediate plans for that.

EDIT: I just tested cifs:// to a Snow Leopard system from a High Sierra system. This certainly seems to work. Once more, thanks for that tip!

 

[alex_free]

Interesting, I seem to be the first to recommend SSH/SFTP/SCP. You probably have to do this though:

ssh -oHostKeyAlgorithms=+ssh-dss you@yourmacip

You can also set that in your SSH configuration file as seen in the link below:

SSH returns: no matching host key type found. Their offer: ssh-dss

I am accustomed to using Putty on a Windows box or an OSX command line terminal to SSH into a NAS, without any configuration of the client. Ubuntu 16.04 attempts to SSH into the NAS (via LAN): ss...

askubuntu.com

 

[eyoungren]

Nah, I virtually never use the sidebar. I have a whole family of saved static IP addresses for my internal Macs:

View attachment 1974437


You’ll also notice I use afp for all of them (including my Macs running High Sierra). I use AFP across them all because it’s one of those “it just works” features. From time to time, I may try an SMB connection to the same addresses when AFP unexpectedly stops responding, to verify whether it’s a network or server issue.

What I didn’t know until your reply here is one, whilst using a more recent macOS build, can explicitly specify the earlier SMB standard by using CIFS:// in lieu of SMB:// (thank you!). I may give that a try, especially should I bring in a system with something like Mojave or later. There are, however, no immediate plans for that.

EDIT: I just tested cifs:// to a Snow Leopard system from a High Sierra system. This certainly seems to work. Once more, thanks for that tip!

Gotcha. I exclusively use CtS myself.

Glad I was able to pass CIFs along though. Also, if you didn't already know, you can use it for FTP as well. Same setup - FTP://XXX.XXX.X.X

The same connection box comes up and you give Finder the FTP user details. It's not intuitive, which is why most people use an FTP app.

NFS also works.

And…if you want to go directly to a share you can add the path - but you knew that probably.

I've been trying to use SMB more only because that's the direction Apple is going in, but right now it seems AFP/SMB are evenly split on my home network.

EDIT: CIFS vs SMB. CIFS will be more stable and reliable, but because it's SMB1 it's also going to be slower.

EDIT2: The CIFs suggestion was knowledge gained a few years back when dealing with InDesign and Mavericks. Mavericks has an SMB2/3 bug and will kill any InDesign connection after 24 hours (the app just immediately quits). You have to use CIFS if you want a stable connection with InDesign on Mavericks.

 

[barracuda156]

Apparently you can also install it using Mac ports, but dunno if that's working at the moment.

The port is horrible out-of-date, the ticket calling for an update hangs forever: https://trac.macports.org/ticket/36673
I will try building it though and post an update here. (May take a while, since right now the Quad is building guile, and that takes forever.)

UPD. No, netatalk fails to build, both ancient 2.0.5 and the latest 3.1.12. I did not try to fix it in any way however, just ran the build. It fails after quite a while of compilation, so perhaps should be fixable. Apparently just no one cared to do that so far.

 

[AdamBuker]

One workaround I've had to use is DropCopy which works great for single file transfers between two macs. On my setup I have an m1 mac mini and a Powerbook G4 and they both use a kvm switch. I can be on my m1 mac and drag the file that I need onto the DropCopy blob (or you can use the menu bar item) and it transfers to my powerbook. I can also do this in reverse and send files from the powerbook to the mac mini.

Now if your mac mini is in a different room than your G5, you can set up screen sharing on both machines. So from your G5 you can access your mac mini's screen and drag and drop the file from there.

This may not be the best long-term solution for what you're looking for, but it's free and will work in a pinch for single file transfers. It's not so great if you're doing multiple file transfers.

DropCopy - best file transfer for Mac, iPhone, iPad | 10base-t

Easy free file sharing with Apple devices. Like AirDrop for older Macs. Works on iOS, macOS, iPadOS.

10base-t.com

The latest version should work on both intel and Apple Silicon macs. For the PowerPC compatible version, you'll want version 1.77 which is at the bottom of the page.

 

[barracuda156]

DropCopy - best file transfer for Mac, iPhone, iPad | 10base-t

Easy free file sharing with Apple devices. Like AirDrop for older Macs. Works on iOS, macOS, iPadOS.

10base-t.com

The latest version should work on both intel and Apple Silicon macs. For the PowerPC compatible version, you'll want version 1.77 which is at the bottom of the page.

Link is dead though: https://10base-t.com/site/downloads/DropCopy_latest_1.77.zip
Have you kept a copy?

 

[AdamBuker]

Try this and see if this works.

 

[pd212]

Link is dead though: https://10base-t.com/site/downloads/DropCopy_latest_1.77.zip
Have you kept a copy?

On behalf of the 10base-t.com team, sorry for the broken link (casualty of a site redesign) -- that legacy version of DropCopy is now available here: https://10base-t.com/downloads/DropCopy_latest_1.77.zip along with other variants at https://10base-t.com/direct/ -- we are happy that DropCopy worked for you and would love to hear if there are any other features that could make it even better (let us know at hello@10base-t.com)

 

[Edgecrusherr]

I've been dealing with this after upgrading from a Mac Pro running 10.15.7 to a Mac Studio running Monterey (I had to downgrade from Venture, as just about everything was broken in that OS).

I tried to go the opens source Samba route, but it didn't work properly. I think I needed to do more work on the Mac Studio to get Samba functioning, but I really prefer the GUI to manage all my share via Apple's SMB3, vs the terminal for Samba.

Setting up FileZilla Server to share over FTP works, but you lose a lot of the Mac specific features of file sharing, such as custom icons on files and folder, image previews, folder backgrounds, label color (I think), and any special window settings (like icon size, text size, views, etc).

I also tried NFS, using NFS Manger, but I couldn't get it working. I may reach out to the vender for help. However, that's a paid app, and it will likely have the same shortcomings as FTP, so it's likely not worth the time.

Overall, I'm annoyed with Apple. It feels like I've paid them to make my life less useful (epsially with all the other issues I'm having with Monterey, and was having with Ventura). Yes, these are older computers that I'm trying to connect to a new Mac, and I understand why they would want to drop AFP support, but the real issue is their poor implementation of SMB. Something like a Synology can easily detect which version of SMB you're trying to connect from, and allow it all to work. On the Mac, Apple has support build in for SMB 1-3 (there's literally a hidden config file for it), but it only works with any computer that supports their janky implementation of SMB 3 (maybe SMB3). What they need to do, and it wouldn't be difficult, is automatically serve out SMB 1 or 2 to devices that require it. If they're worry about performance or security, then they can easily require a terminal command, and maybe even disabling SIP, to allow this feature. It would take less than an hour of work for one of their programmers to get this done, and have it done for all foreseeable future versions of macOS.

Maybe if they didn't rush out new OSes yearly, they could release a solid, quality OS like they used to, a long time ago.

 

[doctor_dog]

At the risk of sounding daft, wouldn't WebDAV be an OK solution for this? Yes you need a web server, but in my experience it's the "if nothing else works" solution. I've used it to sync among all kinds of disparate systems for some time. Just my $0.02.

 

[startergo]

and SMB doesn’t seem to be working

Yes I had that on Leopard too. I just could't do connect as. But in Snow Leopard it still works very well. It is actually pretty fast and I can access all macOS's up to Ventura. Why don't you try Sorbet Leopard? It is a mix between both Leopard and SL.

 

[MarkC426]

I usually make all my server connections via the "Connect to Server" box from Finder. You can force a connection type in there.

For instance:

CIFS://192.168.0.11 would force a CIFS (SMB1) connection to my L2009 Mini in the garage. Using SMB://192.168.0.11 would be SMB2/3 and so on.

Is that how you connect, or are you simply connecting via the sidebar (or other means)? If the latter, then yes, the Mac is going to choose SMB2 and not CIFS or AFP.

PS. I have recently discovered that there is some sort of bug in Mojave that causes SMB connections to shared drives to drop after a couple of hours. I've gone back to using AFP to connect to my Minis.

@eyoungren
I attempted to connect my G5 (Leopard) to my MacPro (Mojave) with a direct Ethernet connection (no network hub), to screen share the G5 on the MacPro.
I was unable to make a connection, so gave up.

Based on the above quote, how does this work in laymen's terms.....😁
This networking malarkey is a bit beyond me.

Do I need to install anything, or is it just native Apple tools?

 

[eyoungren]

@eyoungren
I attempted to connect my G5 (Leopard) to my MacPro (Mojave) with a direct Ethernet connection (no network hub), to screen share the G5 on the MacPro.
I was unable to make a connection, so gave up.

Based on the above quote, how does this work in laymen's terms.....😁
This networking malarkey is a bit beyond me.

Do I need to install anything, or is it just native Apple tools?

What you're wanting to do is create a PTP (Peer to Peer) connection. It didn't work because there was nothing to assign IP addresses. So, you have to do that yourself.

Assign both Macs their own IP address using the Network panel in System Settings. Generally a PTP connection uses the default 192.168.0.X address range. To make it simple, I'd assign 192.168.0.1 to the MP and 192.168.0.2 to the G5. Your subnet mask would be 255.255.255.0. I have not done this in a while, so I do not recall if you have to set the router address. Let me know if it will not let you set the addresses without that.

Then you just connect to the other Mac's IP address using the Screen Sharing app.

Note, I assume both the MP and the G5 are not on your home network. PTP connections are only peer to peer. I further assume you have Screen Sharing turned on on the G5.

 

[MarkC426]

Note, I assume both the MP and the G5 are not on your home network. PTP connections are only peer to peer. I further assume you have Screen Sharing turned on on the G5.

The MP is connected via Ethernet to the Broadband Router on Ethernet 1.
So I would connect the G5 via Ethernet 2.