Finder = The worst thing about OS X

[Oats]

i agree the "finder" GUI is the weakest part of OS X.

for about 100 reasons, but here are a few:

1) no "up directory" button.
2) SLOW. usually this is a problem the first time a window is opened after a reboot. takes a large fraction of a second to populate the contents of folder with more than 20 items on my C2D macbook. yes, i am complaining about milliseconds, but honestly mac os 7 was snappier on my old 40MHz processor.
3) .ds_store - enough said.
4) i can "copy" and "paste" a file using cmd-C and cmd-V to duplicate a file, this is good. but i can't "cut" and "paste" a file to move it.
5) no way to merge folder contents with the same folder heirarchy, but a few different files. windows does a great job with this one.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Quite a few of these complaints could be mitigated by adding the Path widget to the Finder toolbar.

 

[Maynerd]

Quite a few of these complaints could be mitigated by adding the Path widget to the Finder toolbar.

Tell me more about this.

 

[dpaanlka]

1) no "up directory" button.

Command + Click a Finder window's title bar. It will allow you to select not only the parent folder, but any of it's parent folders as well.

I prefer organise things my own way, lists are no good for me. I have seen the options you showed before, but they are not available for the graphical browsing I was specifically talking about.

From looking at your situation, you might benefit from reducing your icon sizes to the traditional 32 x 32 with 10 point font. I do that on all my systems. I think it is much nicer looking, and this is how both Mac OS and Windows sized icons for years and years (they should have just left it that way IMHO):

Wow I love finder and find it one of the best things about OSX.

I agree.

As a newbie Mac coming from the PC side I feel that Finder is really difficult to adjust to. I think there are some improvements that can be made. I agree with the concerns people have in here with finder and hope to see some improvements on the next mac os release.

Don't confuse "improvements" with "changing things so they work like Windows so that I'm more comfortable even at the risk of making long-time Mac users uncomfortable."

 

[IJ Reilly]

Tell me more about this.

In the Finder, select View/Customize Tool Bar...

Drag the "Path" widget to the Tool Bar, and you're done.

 

[AdeFowler]

1) no "up directory" button

Command-Up Arrow (not a button but hey )

 

[Maynerd]

Don't confuse "improvements" with "changing things so they work like Windows so that I'm more comfortable even at the risk of making long-time Mac users uncomfortable."

Better is better. If it makes long time mac users uncomfortable oh well. Sorry but the mac userbase is pretty small it might be in their interest to make it more acceptable to the masses then try to please their very small user base. Who in the end, would get used to it and appreciate the "improvement". Besides they could just make it an option and not force it on everyone I suppose. What of the suggestions in this thread would make you feel uncomfortable?

 

[dpaanlka]

Better is better. If it makes long time mac users uncomfortable oh well. Sorry but the mac userbase is pretty small it might be in their interest to make it more acceptable to the masses then try to please their very small user base. Who in the end, would get used to it and appreciate the "improvement".

First of all, thats not the way to run a company, especially whose customers carried them through really bad times. Changing stuff to suit the needs of customers you do not have yet instead of the ones you already have is not an "improvement" - it's just a great way to lose customers.

One example would be putting all folders at the top rather than in alphabetical order with the rest of the files (as it has always been done on a Mac). What purpose could that possibly serve other than to please Windows users?

What nonsense...

 

[zero2dash]

Wow I love finder and find it one of the best things about OSX.

I agree with you

I agree.

I'm with these guys; I love the Finder too.
I find myself despising any time with any version of Windows nowadays. I've become so spoiled while using the G5 at work that I'm dying to get a Mac in my house again.

 

[Maynerd]

First of all, thats not the way to run a company, especially whose customers carried them through really bad times. Changing stuff to suit the needs of customers you do not have yet instead of the ones you already have is not an "improvement" - it's just a great way to lose customers.

One example would be putting all folders at the top rather than in alphabetical order with the rest of the files (as it has always been done on a Mac). What purpose could that possibly serve other than to please Windows users?

What nonsense...

Sure it's a way to run a company. Didn't Apple do away with firewire support on their Ipods and move to USB support didn't they make ipods windows ready as standard? Companies aren't in the business to support just their small userbase, it is to increase marketshare. To earn more revenue and profit. You really think that the changes proposed in this thread would turn loyal mac users into non mac users, where they gonna go? That's just nonsense.

There are reasons for having folders at the top which you can't comprehend apparently. The mac way isn't always the best way in every instance just as the "windows" way isn't the best way in every instance either. Quit being so hard headed.

 

[bousozoku]

Finder isn't as good as it should be but that doesn't mean that the answers to other things aren't there. It also doesn't mean that users don't have to spend time developing organisation to their mess.

How long has command-click on the folder name been in Finder? It's been there since System 7, at least. There are probably tens of "hidden" features in Finder because people don't go looking for them. It's easier to complain.

I don't think most people go into Finder preferences or View Options to see what's there. How many people knew that most any toolbar on a Mac OS X application could be modified with a right-click and a little ingenuity?

I'm constantly amazed that people aren't interested in finding answers. How many people have complained about iChat and iTunes when the solution was a few mouse clicks away?

Finder issues need to be addressed but nothing here seems to be a Finder issue other than the speed at which it appears after a re-boot.

 

[dpaanlka]

Quit being so hard headed.

You literally just said Apple should make the Finder work like Windows does because Windows has a higher market share, and shouldn't care about Mac users. You quit being hard headed.

And how does listing folders alphabetically with the files not make sense? If Windows people want a Mac they should learn the Mac ways.

 

[Maynerd]

You literally just said Apple should make the Finder work like Windows does because Windows has a higher market share, and shouldn't care about Mac users. You quit being hard headed.

And how does listing folders alphabetically with the files not make sense? If Windows people want a Mac they should learn the Mac ways.

I said apple should consider this method to gain more acceptance. I also said it should be an option. Just like how you can sort via size, name, type.

I never said the mac way doesn't make sense but it isn't the best way to manage things in every circumstance.

I guess you're the type to think why would apple support anything other than AAC in itunes. People should just learn the mac ways. That is just crazy. Apple's product isn't the most perfect thing on the planet man. I guess you won't get leopard since tiger is perfect in every way and can have zero improvements.

 

[Jezza]

I've been toying with xfolder. It's like the 1980s all over again - Norton Commander for Windows now available for OS X....oh boy.

Having said that, I really appreciated having the complete path in front of my nose at a single glance. Kudos for that one; it certainly beats the pants off the Path drop-down in the regular Finder window.

Can't see me using this utility for much longer - too much like NC under Windows 3.1....

Ah well.

Jezza

 

[notjustjay]

And how does listing folders alphabetically with the files not make sense? If Windows people want a Mac they should learn the Mac ways.

No, there should be options for both. It's not "Windows way" versus "Mac way", it's about giving users options about how they like to see their files.

I use column view, and in folders with lots of sub-folders and files, where there are many more files in the folder than are visible at a time, it is especially annoying how much scrolling I have to do to work with one or another, especially when cleaning up the contents of the folder by selecting files and dragging them into sub-folders.

I'm sorry, but this was just far easier (and faster) on a Windows machine, especially since I could use keyboard shortcuts: select all applicable files, ctrl-x, Home, quickly find the folder, Enter, Ctrl-V.

For that matter, it's much easier to quickly visualize the hierarchical structure beneath a folder when all the sub-folders are right there together. When they're interspersed, I have to scroll through the entire list, picking out folder icons from the rest of the files as I go.

Feel free to insinuate that I am less of a Mac user than you are for refusing to accept that the "Mac way" is not only the "better way" by default, but also should be the "only way".

 

[Dane D.]

I said apple should consider this method to gain more acceptance. I also said it should be an option. Just like how you can sort via size, name, type.

I never said the mac way doesn't make sense but it isn't the best way to manage things in every circumstance.

I guess you're the type to think why would apple support anything other than AAC in itunes. People should just learn the mac ways. That is just crazy. Apple's product isn't the most perfect thing on the planet man. I guess you won't get leopard since tiger is perfect in every way and can have zero improvements.

To gain more acceptance... Tell Steve Jobs he's doing it wrong. Tell him the Windows way is better. Tell him how to run a computer business so that Window users "get it". Please, I been using Macs since '92, nothing wrong with the Finder.

 

[Antares]

Personally, I prefer the Mac OSX Finder to the Windows version. I find it difficult to locate files in Windows since folders, documents, file types, etc. are seperated. It takes a lot longer to find everything since you have to search and scroll multiple times to get to what you're looking for. For example, you can't just easily go to an area where file names start with "p" to find a folder called "pictures" and a document or database called "pictures." In Windows, you have to first scroll to the folders area, then scroll to find "p's," then scroll to the document area and then scroll again to find that set of "p's," etc.. In OSX, you just go to the "p's" area once and everything is right there. No multiple searching required. Simple, quick and easy.

But, I know what you're saying. It's always nice to have as many options as possible. It would be cool to be able to customize Finder more without having to get an external application. Well, we'll see what Tigger brings.....

 

[dpaanlka]

I guess you're the type to think why would apple support anything other than AAC in itunes. People should just learn the mac ways. That is just crazy. Apple's product isn't the most perfect thing on the planet man. I guess you won't get leopard since tiger is perfect in every way and can have zero improvements.

No, there should be options for both. It's not "Windows way" versus "Mac way", it's about giving users options about how they like to see their files."

I don't agree with any of you that there should be an option to display all the folders at the top of a directory - that doesn't make any alphabetical sense and the Mac OS has never ever done that in 23 years so I don't see why it should start doing that now. It takes about one millisecond of scrolling to get to a folder you want, or you can just start typing the name of the folder and it jumps right to it. How can you get any faster than that!

Half of Apple's marketing is simplicity and ease of use. If Apple adds some sort of option to display all folders at the top, then why not add an option to display them all at the bottom, or all in the middle, or not display the folders at all, or display only the folders? Adding tons of pointless unnecessary features and options may sound great to us geeks, but then you get a something about as user friendly as Linux to the average person. Not having all these options and features and checkboxes and radio buttons and preference panes to tweak and customize exactly every single minute detail of the operating system is precisely what makes the Mac OS popular. It's all unnecessary.

In other words, the Mac OS is *supposed* to be about finding what is the most logical way to do something (listing alphabetically) and leaving hardcore customizers to third parties if you want to do something else. It has nothing to do with blindly thinking everything Apple does is perfect. It's just getting it, and I don't think some of you are quite there yet.

EDIT: And for clarification, there are things I think Apple hasn't gotten "perfect." For example, (as I said above) I still think the default icon sizes should be 32 x 32, just as they were in the past. It lets you see a lot more of what you have than 64 x 64 or whatever the default size is now. What's the point of higher resolution screens if you scale up everything along with it? Also, iPods need Firewire!

EDIT #2: Also, for people who may not get the Command + Click thing to display the entire current hierarchy of where you are, here is a screen shot. As you can see, Command + Clicking the title bar reveals the path of where I was at the time of the screen shot to be Macintosh HD / Users / dpaanlka / Documents



This feature existed at least as far back as Mac OS 7.

 

[Maynerd]

To gain more acceptance... Tell Steve Jobs he's doing it wrong. Tell him the Windows way is better. Tell him how to run a computer business so that Window users "get it". Please, I been using Macs since '92, nothing wrong with the Finder.

I'll tell Steve that his PC marketshare is crap that's for sure. I didn't say the windows way is better is merely said that in some circumstances it is not the easiest method and in those circumstances the windows way would be better. Look I bought a Mac so clearly I've made a switch for one reason or another. But because I've been a PC user for some time I don't yet have the elitest attitude that you and many Mac users have that their OS is superior in every way and is better than everything and is perfect in every way. So bear with me and give me some time to be properly brainwashed.

 

[Maynerd]

dpaanlka:

Alphabetical sorting is great in many if not most circumstances but there are reasons for wanting a different type of sorting scheme. Why can't you understand that?

You can have ease of use and full control options. Why would you want to limit the OS to only be pleasing to novice computer users? Why not default to easy and if people want to ratchet up the options give them the freedom to?

You keep refering to this alphabetical listing option. If this is the "right" way to do things why does apple give you other sorting options?

The option to see the hierarchy that you show is nice. I think it would be nice if it showed you the hierarchy without having to hit a key stroke. I think it would be nicer if you could also see the hirearchy at say the bottom or top of the window.

I wish I was as enlightend as you so I could "get it" I thought my mac was supposed to be easy but apparently I have to "get it" before I can use it. I guess I'm just stupid.

 

[NaMo4184]

I don't agree with any of you that there should be an option to display all the folders at the top of a directory - that doesn't make any alphabetical sense and the Mac OS has never ever done that in 23 years so I don't see why it should start doing that now. It takes about one millisecond of scrolling to get to a folder you want, or you can just start typing the name of the folder and it jumps right to it. How can you get any faster than that!

Half of Apple's marketing is simplicity and ease of use. If Apple adds some sort of option to display all folders at the top, then why not add an option to display them all at the bottom, or all in the middle, or not display the folders at all, or display only the folders? Adding tons of pointless unnecessary features and options may sound great to us geeks, but then you get a something about as user friendly as Linux to the average person. Not having all these options and features and checkboxes and radio buttons and preference panes to tweak and customize exactly every single minute detail of the operating system is precisely what makes the Mac OS popular. It's all unnecessary.

In other words, the Mac OS is *supposed* to be about finding what is the most logical way to do something (listing alphabetically) and leaving hardcore customizers to third parties if you want to do something else. It has nothing to do with blindly thinking everything Apple does is perfect. It's just getting it, and I don't think some of you are quite there yet.

EDIT: And for clarification, there are things I think Apple hasn't gotten "perfect." For example, (as I said above) I still think the default icon sizes should be 32 x 32, just as they were in the past. It lets you see a lot more of what you have than 64 x 64 or whatever the default size is now. What's the point of higher resolution screens if you scale up everything along with it? Also, iPods need Firewire!

EDIT #2: Also, for people who may not get the Command + Click thing to display the entire current hierarchy of where you are, here is a screen shot. As you can see, Command + Clicking the title bar reveals the path of where I was at the time of the screen shot to be Macintosh HD / Users / dpaanlka / Documents

View attachment 68235

This feature existed at least as far back as Mac OS 7.

Beautifully said.

Maynerd - you have no respect for mac users. Your words imply we are second class citizens to windows users. And so you know, macs laptop market share is 12% and rising. Take that for what its worth to you.

 

[Cameront9]

Hey, I like this!

I could definitely get into this kind of GUI.

I have not had the pleasure of playing with NEXT so I thank you for the link to the screen capture. And there I was thinking that the OS X Finder Column View had originated from a shareware utility called Greg's Browser [smacks forehead]

Hope Leopard fixes the Finder good and proper.

Jezza

It may have been implemented elsewhere first (Not sure), but the first Apple product with "Column View" like that was the Apple Lisa. Before the Mac, in other words. Pretty old idea (and a GOOD one).

I too, agree that Finder needs a revamp....

 

[Maynerd]

Maynerd - you have no respect for mac users. Your words imply we are second class citizens to windows users. And so you know, macs laptop market share is 12% and rising. Take that for what its worth to you.

What are you talking about how did I imply that? I am a mac user. I dumped my windows PC for a Mac. I guess I wanted to be a second class citizen.

 

[dpaanlka]

You can have ease of use and full control options. Why would you want to limit the OS to only be pleasing to novice computer users? Why not default to easy and if people want to ratchet up the options give them the freedom to?

It's not "novice" computer user. It's just the logical way to do something.

You keep refering to this alphabetical listing option. If this is the "right" way to do things why does apple give you other sorting options?

And those default to alphabetical within their own. If you sort by "kind" for example, within each kind grouping things are listed alphabetically.

The option to see the hierarchy that you show is nice. I think it would be nice if it showed you the hierarchy without having to hit a key stroke. I think it would be nicer if you could also see the hirearchy at say the bottom or top of the window.

The reason they don't do this is because most of the time you should know where you are. How many times have you stopped and thought "man, I'm really lost" - probably almost never. So why clutter up the screen with that information? The option to Command + Click the title bar is always there.

I wish I was as enlightend as you so I could "get it" I thought my mac was supposed to be easy but apparently I have to "get it" before I can use it. I guess I'm just stupid.

It's not that your too stupid to get it, it's that you're too smart. Think less is more.

 

[Maynerd]

I disagree with you on not giving the option. We won't come to an agreement on that. I'm just the type of person/user that wants full control of everything possible. I want the OS to default to what "they" think is the best way to do things and give me the option to tweak things. I realize that some things can be tweaked with 3rd party applications but I don't think I should have to pay or get other apps just to do tweaks to my OS.

BTW I did get lost in a hierarchy when I first got my Mac. I still get a little confused at times since I don't fully understand the structure of things but I'm learning. This goes back to an option thing to turn it on. Gimmie more options!

you're too smart.

Now there's something I think we can both agree on!