Fire in Cupertino: a comic

thehustleman

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 3, 2013
1,123
1
not saying that I agree or disagree with the cartoonist.


Add some more cartoons and memes if you have any and let's just have some fun.


Since no one added a single meme, let the discussion continue
 

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filmbuff

macrumors 6502a
Jan 5, 2011
809
142
Alright I'll start:

In a free market, capitalist society, how can you blame a company for taking advantage of any workaround it can to make more money? The country is certainly better off with Apple than without it, and they are paying all of the taxes that they are legally required to pay. So what's the problem?
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,785
211
UK
Alright I'll start:

In a free market, capitalist society, how can you blame a company for taking advantage of any workaround it can to make more money? The country is certainly better off with Apple than without it, and they are paying all of the taxes that they are legally required to pay. So what's the problem?
It is cute this little 'loophole' that large companies use to avoid paying tax, but the joke is over now and its time to pay up. And I'm glad pressure is being put on these companies because of their blatant greediness.

As much as I hate it, I have to pay my share of tax. Why shouldn't they?
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,041
65
Plymouth, MN
It is cute this little 'loophole' that large companies use to avoid paying tax, but the joke is over now and its time to pay up. And I'm glad pressure is being put on these companies because of their blatant greediness.

As much as I hate it, I have to pay my share of tax. Why shouldn't they?
Why> Apple has paid all the taxes that it is legally due to pay. based on the income that they have earned in the US. There is no law that requires them to bring that money back to the US and until there is, there is no sane reason for anybody to suggest that the US has any right to that money. Apple pays all of the taxes that are due. They are doing nothing more as a company than what individuals due every single year.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,785
211
UK
Why> Apple has paid all the taxes that it is legally due to pay. based on the income that they have earned in the US. There is no law that requires them to bring that money back to the US and until there is, there is no sane reason for anybody to suggest that the US has any right to that money. Apple pays all of the taxes that are due. They are doing nothing more as a company than what individuals due every single year.
I was on about their tax situation in the UK. Using other countries to avoid paying corporation tax by basing themselves offshore. It won't be long until they will have to pay up though since a lot of noise is being made about companies such as Google and Apple and the many others who are avoiding paying up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20197710
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,041
65
Plymouth, MN
I was on about their tax situation in the UK. Using other countries to avoid paying corporation tax by basing themselves offshore.
Except that Apple actually runs legitimate business operations offshore. And when they make money overseas, they pay taxes in those countries. YOu make it sound like Apple is is just basing their companies to avid taxes. They don't. They actually have functioning employees and functioning parts of their business. They aren't offshoring money, they don't use creative accounting to make sure they show no profit or anything. They pay the exact amount of taxes that the law allows for them and what they are legally required to pay. In fact they pay several billion in taxes yearly.

This is something that I have never seen answered. Apple is a global business. Where are they required to have all of their money in one country? The answer is nowhere. There is no law nor is their any requirement to do such a thing and if there is no legal or no financial reason to do that (and in fact doing so would be rejected by the board)..

Since there is no requirement for the money to exist in the US, why should they pay US taxes on money that the US government never gets involved with (this is money earned by european divisions of Apple since it's an active business). On the flip-side, is the Irish government entitled to Apple's US profits? If you want to argue that the US should be paid extra taxes, then the same has to be argued on the other side yet that is just as absurd.

And I have seen no moment that will ever seriously change that - all it takes is one country to offer an incentive that doesn't require reparation (and lets be honest, that is never going to be a law in the US). If any country wants business to invest in their country they are not going to penalize them by requiring them to pay taxes like that.

Apple is a global company and they pay those taxes where they are due. And this goes for all other companies that do these things. Apple's profits are not 100% US based and as long as that is the case, they are never going to pay 100% of their profits in taxes to one country unless you want to argue that other countries that deserve money should be denied that money.
 

Dr McKay

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2010
3,419
41
Kirkland
It annoys me that Governments are trying to punish companies who are doing nothing legally wrong, if anything they should be grateful that these companies exposed these holes in the system and then fix them.
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,503
87
An Island in the Salish Sea
...

Please no debating.
Coincidentally, the OP hasn't been back to debate this point.

For the record, I see nothing wrong with how Apple has structured their businesses, and the tax liabilities from that.

People make similar decisions, though on a much smaller scale, every year and everyday. I wonder how many people criticizing Apple in this thread have ever chosen to buy something online - because of sales tax. Or used a friend's EDU discount. Or paid for a service or goods under the counter in cash to get a better price.

Or - chose to live in a low sales tax state. Or chose to live in a low income tax state. Or taken advantage of a back to school tax holiday.

Or.... decided that you could go back to school because of the tax breaks, (where if there were no tax breaks you couldn't afford to). Or for that matter bought anything that had a tax incentive attached, something you could or would not have purchased otherwise.

That's all Apple did. It made decisions about its business structure that - legally - minimized its taxes.

===

It also much more complicated than most people here are giving credit for as this isn't just Apple and the US government involved.

There is no question that Apple is paying income tax internationally. As already stated there are treaties to ensure that company only pays tax on it's income once. Apple gets a 'dollar for dollar' (Cook's words) credit for that tax paid. If the US changes its tax laws to extract more taxes from Apple, it will be instead of that tax going to a foreign jurisdiction.... Apple will get the credit for the tax paid to the US, and apply to its international liabilities. On the surface, Americans might think this is a peachy-keen idea, and really does no harm since Apple essentially pays the same tax on balance, globally.

Pisses off American trading partners though, and you need trading partners if what you want to do is, you know... trade, eh? Piss off the trading partners enough (by scooping their taxes, for instance) and they may decide to close their doors to American goods, putting even more Americans out of work. Consider that despite the current self-denial, the US is still one of the biggest goods exporters in the world - perhaps still #1, it's been a couple of years since I looked. America needs to export to maintain its economy. Stealing other nation's income tax lunch money isn't usually considered a good way to build the warm and strong trading ties you need to export goods.
 

MegamanX

macrumors regular
May 13, 2013
221
0
It annoys me that Governments are trying to punish companies who are doing nothing legally wrong, if anything they should be grateful that these companies exposed these holes in the system and then fix them.
Problem is those same companies will block attempted to patch those holes. There is no question about it that they are abusing the spirit of the tax laws.
They are doing unethical things.
 

thehustleman

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 3, 2013
1,123
1
Problem is those same companies will block attempted to patch those holes. There is no question about it that they are abusing the spirit of the tax laws.
They are doing unethical things.
No, they are being SMART!

When you do taxes do you not find ways to pay less OR increase your refund within the law?

Business related expenses? Run a home business? Deduct your rent.
Uniforms or other clothing you had to buy for work? Deduct your expenses.
Charitable donations? Deduct it.
Child care expenses? Tax credit


If you hire a tax professional they do it for you. EVERYONE tries to find ways to pay less in taxes. It isn't unethical, it's normal.



Why do we do this? To keep more of OUR OWN MONEY IN OUR POCKET WHERE IT BELONGS. Companies do the same thing, they earned the money, the government should get some, but not a huge chunk like they are trying to portray.

If you check deductions for taxes to save money, yet criticizing apple for it, you're a hypocrite. There's no way around it.

I'm changing the title of this thread since it's changed