Firefox 1.5 Released

[bousozoku]

FF is totally different. If you think FF is mac-like then you don't understand the difference between cocoa apps and non cocoa apps. It looks/feels nothing like mail or any other cocoa app. It tries to and probably passes like a native mac app to most users, but not to people have a feel for cocoa apps.

Carbon applications are native applications, just as Cocoa applications are native applications. You'd be surprised how many people think that certain Apple applications are written using Cocoa when they're not. It's not as easy to make mistakes while developing Cocoa applications, but you can make mistakes and they often perform poorly because of late binding--Cocoa is not the holy grail.

Firefox, and the other Mozilla applications, are fine native applications on Mac OS X even though they are also running on other platforms, too.

 

[riwanami]

I think I will stick with Safari for now

After a few days of using FireFox 1.5 on my iMac G5, I still find the software buggy. I've had the following three problems using the new FireFox:

1. After turning on the computer and launching Firefox, it would often quit immediately after launching. This usually happens the first time that Firefox is launched after a restart.

2. Firefox sometimes (though not often) will not load the page, and I must manually click the reload button to show the page.

3. Firefox seems to crash much more than Safari.


I will admit that Firefox is somewhat speedier than Safari when it is working correctly. I also feel that Firefox is compatible with more sites than Safari is. For now, I will stick with Safari as my main browser and Firefox as my secondary.

 

[MrSugar]

Okay, so here's my opinion on firefox. It's a great browser, but it just doesn't have the feel and love that Safari does. Check it,

1. Firefox doesn't have X's right on the tabs to close them, although it's in the corner it still frustrates me to no end. The whole tab GUI is thrown off by this one issue. Another downfall of this is that you can't close one tab with your mouse without switching to it.

2. Firefox font rendering doesn't feel as good as Safari. For some reason fonts in firefox, especially when sized in ems are smaller and more jagged.

3. Safari has better RSS, hands down.

4. Safari opens faster and renders faster, firefox just feels a bit slugish. Although Firefox feels good, Safari has blazed for me ever since the release of 2.0.

However, that said, the extensions for firefox are nice (although I agree there are almost to many to filter through, kinda like dashboard widgets). In any case the CSS extension is a lifesaver at times, as is the ability to turn on and off styling. As a web developer I find myself using those features in Firefox more and more.

The honest truth is that Firefox is a great project, a beautiful option for users in the PC world. However, when it comes to Mac, in my opinion, Safari has been done so well that it is leading the way for Mac browsers. Simple, fast, and elegant, Safari is the browser for me.

 

[bousozoku]

After a few days of using FireFox 1.5 on my iMac G5, I still find the software buggy. I've had the following three problems using the new FireFox:

1. After turning on the computer and launching Firefox, it would often quit immediately after launching. This usually happens the first time that Firefox is launched after a restart.

2. Firefox sometimes (though not often) will not load the page, and I must manually click the reload button to show the page.

3. Firefox seems to crash much more than Safari.


I will admit that Firefox is somewhat speedier than Safari when it is working correctly. I also feel that Firefox is compatible with more sites than Safari is. For now, I will stick with Safari as my main browser and Firefox as my secondary.

Have you a completely extension free installation of Firefox? Even with Adblock and Fasterfox, I'm not experiencing the problems you're describing.

Have you done the usual repairing permissions and making sure that the drive volume has been corrected using DiskWarrior or Tech Tool Pro 4?

 

[riwanami]

Have you a completely extension free installation of Firefox? Even with Adblock and Fasterfox, I'm not experiencing the problems you're describing.

Have you done the usual repairing permissions and making sure that the drive volume has been corrected using DiskWarrior or Tech Tool Pro 4?

Thanks Bousozoku,

Mine is a completely extension free installation of Firefox 1.5

I've done the Disk Utility repairs, but not the Diskwarrior or Tech Tool Pro. I'll check into that and see if they could solve the issues..

 

[kugino]

Toward your question 1, the new windows open that way to let you know it's in a new window and not the existing one. This is how most programs open windows. The status bar can be opened by going under "View" and checking "Status Bar".

As for question 2 I notice the long initial load time, but since I keep the browser open for days at a time this isn't really an issue for me since once its open ther's no lag. I don't know of any tricks to get it to load quicker.

right. i know that's why they do it, but not every app does it...safari doesn't do that and neither does camino. and if they do, it resizes the window so that the status bar is still visible. i can see the status bar fine (it's enabled), but when the new window opens it doesn't resize the window properly so that the status bar is "below" the bottom of the screen. i hate that. i want ff to resize the window properly when it opens new ones. any help with that?

 

[DavidLeblond]

Someone posted the G4 and G5 optimized versions here if anyone's interested.

 

[Compile 'em all]

1. Firefox doesn't have X's right on the tabs to close them, although it's in the corner it still frustrates me to no end.

There is an extension called Tab X which moves the X to be on the Tabs just
like Safari and camino.

 

[dubbz]

Okay, so here's my opinion on firefox. It's a great browser, but it just doesn't have the feel and love that Safari does. Check it,

1. Firefox doesn't have X's right on the tabs to close them, although it's in the corner it still frustrates me to no end. The whole tab GUI is thrown off by this one issue. Another downfall of this is that you can't close one tab with your mouse without switching to it.

There's an extention for that, although I'm not sure if it's updated for 1.5. I'm afraid I don't remember what it was called... Edit: Bah, didn't see Compile 'em all last post

Personally, I prefer it in the corner and not on each invidual tab.

3. Safari has better RSS, hands down.

I prefer Firefox's handling of RSS with its Live Bookmarks. I *never* use RSS in Safari, because I honestly don't care much for how it's done. On the other hand, I use it all the time in Firefox.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Another downfall of this is that you can't close one tab with your mouse without switching to it.

Sure you can. Just right/ctrl-click on the tab you want to close to bring up the contex menu and choose Close Tab.

Note: If you have a one-button mouse and don't want to use the ctrl-button, you can just click and hold on the tab to bring up the context menu, but this will also switch to it.

 

[Compile 'em all]

Sure you can. Just right/ctrl-click on the tab you want to close to bring up the contex menu and choose Close Tab.

Note: If you have a one-button mouse and don't want to use the ctrl-button, you can just click and hold on the tab to bring up the context menu, but this will also switch to it.

You have added nothing here because you still need an additional step. The
problem is not having to activate the tab to close it, but rather the additional
step of activating it. In safari, in one step, you can close a tab whether it is
active or not. In FF, you need two steps, either activating the tab or as you
proposed right clicking the tab and choosing close. In both cases, you need
two steps. The problem, although minor, is irritating if you are always
working with a large number of tabs.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

You have added nothing here because you still need an additional step. The
problem is not having to activate the tab to close it, but rather the additional
step of activating it. In safari, in one step, you can close a tab whether it is
active or not. In FF, you need two steps, either activating the tab or as you
proposed right clicking the tab and choosing close. In both cases, you need
two steps. The problem, although minor, is irritating if you are always
working with a large number of tabs.

And here I though people were interested in solutions, silly me..

 

[MrSugar]

Sure you can. Just right/ctrl-click on the tab you want to close to bring up the contex menu and choose Close Tab.

Note: If you have a one-button mouse and don't want to use the ctrl-button, you can just click and hold on the tab to bring up the context menu, but this will also switch to it.

You're right. I thought of this right after I posted, but I also realized that it's not quite as simple and just doesn't feel as good.

I dunno, safari just fits better to me. Although, I am an avid firefox supporter, especially for the PC world.

 

[bousozoku]

You have added nothing here because you still need an additional step. The
problem is not having to activate the tab to close it, but rather the additional
step of activating it. In safari, in one step, you can close a tab whether it is
active or not. In FF, you need two steps, either activating the tab or as you
proposed right clicking the tab and choosing close. In both cases, you need
two steps. The problem, although minor, is irritating if you are always
working with a large number of tabs.

However, the good thing is that the same contextual menu can close all of the other tabs and various other things and that's more simple to me, even if you do have that tiring task of moving down the menu and clicking. The menu's functionality is so great that I can give up the Safari cuteness for that.

Funny, I was testing what Shiira and Safari did and Shiira works both ways, which is great, but I couldn't figure out how to create a new tab with Safari. I could create new windows but not new tabs. How intuitive that is!

 

[sjk]

Funny, I was testing what Shiira and Safari did and Shiira works both ways, which is great, but I couldn't figure out how to create a new tab with Safari. I could create new windows but not new tabs.

Command-T ? But maybe I misunderstood what you wrote ...

 

[FadeToBlack]

Well, I'm back using Safari again. I can deal with the fact that Safari uses more RAM than Firefox. Firefox just doesn't feel as smooth and Mac-like as Safari does.

 

[bousozoku]

Command-T ? But maybe I misunderstood what you wrote ...

That's it, but I didn't realise that you had to enable tabbed browsing first. How unituitive!

When I clicked cmd-T and tabbed browsing wasn't enabled, why didn't it tell me "You fool! You must enable tabbed browsing for this to work Your system will now self-destruct because you chose the incorrect order of things. Have a nice day!"

 

[sjk]

Firefox just doesn't feel as smooth and Mac-like as Safari does.

Yep, that summarizes my subjective experience of why I prefer Safari over Firefox. A heavy Firefox user trying Safari might feel the opposite. Whatever you get comfortable with first makes a strong impression on personal usability ...

... which is why I could handle Mulberry's "quirky" UI, I'd used it first on Solaris, then a bit on Windows, so it was familiar on OS X even with its UI shortcomings (ironically, it was originally developed on Mac OS (pre-X)). My recent migration to Apple Mail (following the unfortunate ISAMET/Cyrusoft bankruptcy announcement) has been more successful than I'd anticipated although it's certainly not the powerful and flexible IMAP client that Mulberry is. Merging the best of Mail and Mulberry would come close to my ideal mail client.

That's it, but I didn't realise that you had to enable tabbed browsing first. How unituitive!

Shame on you for not checking Safari's preferences.

I'm surprised how many people never bother looking at preferences for apps they're using. That's the first place I go when running a new app and always suggest it to others, with the caveat they don't change anything if they're too unsure of the consequences.

 

[~Shard~]

I'm surprised how many people never bother looking at preferences for apps they're using. That's the first place I go when running a new app and always suggest it to others, with the caveat they don't change anything if they're too unsure of the consequences.

Yep, that's always a good idea, and should be common sense. If you are using a new app (especially if it's one you've paid for!) it only makes sense to get to know it better, what its capabilities atre, and the like - that way you can be as productive as possible with it and utilize it to its fullest extent. Plus, it's always fun to play around and explore with an app - you never know what cool stuff you might find that you never knew about!

 

[bousozoku]

...
Shame on you for not checking Safari's preferences.

I'm surprised how many people never bother looking at preferences for apps they're using. That's the first place I go when running a new app and always suggest it to others, with the caveat they don't change anything if they're too unsure of the consequences.

Ummm, I don't use Safari but maybe 1 % of the time, I use Firefox. Actually, I don't use Safari at all. I use Shiira because it's more intuitive. I don't have to guess at how things are supposed to work. They just work.

 

[Future Science]

RAM usage

Hi all

I know it's been discussed before in an older post, but have you guys monitored the (Real) RAM usage for Firefox? On my PowerBook, it can go up to 100+ MB with the regular Firefox build. I just started using elfurbe's optimized build and it averages to about 80 MB, but Safari would never reach those numbers.

...of course, I have 2 extensions installed (AdBlock and SessionSaver) so I can imagine that they add up to the numbers.

What concerns me though is that the RAM usage for Firefox increases with time...(memory leak?)

-FS

 

[sjk]

Ack'd, ~Shard~. At an extreme, some people seem to consider computers as passive devices, like radio or TV. The less interaction the better.

And Firefox is more intuitive than Safari or Shiira, bousozoku?

 

[~Shard~]

Ack'd, ~Shard~. At an extreme, some people seem to consider computers as passive devices, like radio or TV. The less interaction the better.

I know what you mean - never quite understood that line of thinking, but hey, to each their own!

 

[Future Science]

Ack'd, ~Shard~. At an extreme, some people seem to consider computers as passive devices, like radio or TV. The less interaction the better.

And Firefox is more intuitive than Safari or Shiira, bousozoku?

I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that perhaps behind the scenes, Safari is better at memory management than Firefox. Under the same conditions (if not worst), Safari seems to handle resource usage better.

 

[sjk]

I think you misunderstand me.

Nope, not me. I wasn't even replying to you.