Firewire Specification Approved For Speeds Up To 3.2 Gigabits/sec

[booksacool1]

Mmmm 3gb/s... tasty. It'd be fun networking with FW3200, although it probably won't improve over gigabit, as the hdd's are just too slow.

My complaint is that it was really difficult finding a resonably priced FW800 (or even a FW400) HDD case which supported SATA on the inside. Many were IDE.
They were like $250 (in australia) whereas a normal USB2/eSata case was closer to $40. Considering an eSata expresscard is about $20, you can get a full speed sata kit for ~$60. Most new computers support sata hot plugging aswell. Hell my new pc motherboard even came with an eSata pci bracket.

I'd love to buy a FW3200 PCIe card and use it with an external FW3200 HDD. But I fear it may be very expensive, and no faster over sata.

 

[orbital]

:\

Still no where near as good as eSATA. Firewire's in herrent technology is single channel. eSATA is dual channel meaning you and read/write at the same time. Firewire has to alternate between read and write. That is why professional video people rarely rely on firewire to do heavy lifting on jobs. However this is great news for backup solutions and HD cameras/ higher res still cameras.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Hmm, I don't buy this. Blu-Ray uses h.264 MPEG4 encoding ... which is the technology first widely used by Apple in iTunes. The AppleTV handles high-def h.264 quite well.

Not all Blu-rays use MPEG4 encoding. Many use MPEG2 and VC1 as well.

 

[Teh Don Ditty]

Mmmmmmmmmmm FW3200.

DO WANT!

 

[Joe The Dragon]

In my opinion I hope Apple doesn't adopt this.

USB 3 is about to be released with speeds up to 3gbps and it's backward compatible using the same connector.

Trying to find Firewire 800 products are a major pain in the ass.

USB 2.0 can't even hit it's full speed so usb3 will need it's own cpu + ram on the usb card to be able to hit that speed.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

If I am not mistaken, the current implementation in the MB and MBP of Firewire is a controller hanging off the PCI bus. Since PCI offers 133MB/s and even Firewire 800 is only 100MB/s this isn't a problem. However, anything faster will require a PCIe implementation. So it'll require a new chip.

USB3.0 probably won't happen anytime soon since there is some type of disagreement right now with Intel withholding information on the standard and other chipset makers like nVidia and AMD threatening to invent their own controllers. Which means USB3.0 may not be much of a standard since there may be compatibility issues. I believe this was the case with USB1.0 also until they settled on USB1.1. USB2.0 was agreed upon by all sides so it never had this issue.

In terms of eSATA, some ASUS laptops have a hybrid USB/eSATA port. A single port that can handle either connector. Apple should implement this in order to add eSATA without sacrificing other ports. Although it's probably more fragile.

all apple systems but the mini use pci-e based firewire.

 

[avkills]

Apple had firewire 400 before anyone except maybe Sony. My now vintage Blue & White G3 was the first machine Apple released with it; and that was some time ago.

-mark

 

[Sweetfeld28]

It seems to me this implies a driver update, not a hardware update.

Exactly. Since it is using the same 9 pin plug port as FW800.

 

[PlaceofDis]

It seems to me this implies a driver update, not a hardware update.

why would it be a driver update? just because it uses the same pins? doesn't mean the chips are the same.

 

[Sweetfeld28]

FireWire might be to little to late...

USB 3.0 brings optical connection in 2008

See also: USB compared with FireWire

 

[nanofrog]

why would it be a driver update? just because it uses the same pins? doesn't mean the chips are the same.

Exactly.
Think 10/100/1000 Mb Ethernet. The IC's changed with each speed increase.

 

[PlaceofDis]

FireWire might be to little to late...

USB 3.0 brings optical connection in 2008

See also: USB compared with FireWire

Just because USB 3.0 will have a theortical faster speed means nothing. See fw400 vs USB 2.0.

 

[nickane]

Exactly.
Think 10/100/1000 Mb Ethernet. The IC's changed with each speed increase.

With any luck tho, a bit like the n-class airport cards, companies will have rolled out better spec'd chips in recent devices that meet draft specifications so that they could firmware flash them come october. the drobo fw800 would be a good example.

Apple could do this with every impending release of a new mac that ships with fw800 between now and october, then charge everyone lucky enough to have that functionality and want/need it just $5 for the firmware flash. Then everyone could moan about it, tell apple they're cheapskates for saving us buying a whole new computer by charging us just $5, apple could offer up some bizarre excuse about accounting and commute the price down to $1.99 and most ppl (who will probably never use a raid setup that would be aided by fw3200 because 7200 rpm drives are capable of a throughput just less than the average load fw800 can handle if memory serves...) would still not be happy.

But that probably won't happen again, because the only time apple tried to spare its customers the obsolence it normally purposefully builds into computers to force us to upgrade more regularly, you all p*^&ed and moaned about the paltry sum they charged you for the privilege.

 

[nanofrog]

Unfortunately, not in this case.

According to this article, components won't become available until October of this year. I even searched a few parts vendors (Texas Instuments, NXP..) for data sheets. None available at this time. They only list parts that are IEEE 1394-1995 and 1394a-2000 compliant.

However, if supply is in fact available in Oct, we may see them in the next Apple product releases (Jan).

Mac Pro with FW3200

 

[xbjllb]

Well since Apple invented Firewire I can see it coming to Macs sooner rather than later.

Surrrrree... if only they were still in the computer business and not the phone/mp3 player business...

 

[xbjllb]

I'm sorry I just don't get the "I WANT BLU RAY" chant. There are not many movies in this format yet, the pricing is still too high and a 13 screen is not the best viewing real estate. I could see the 17 or 30" on a desktop but honestly on a 13" laptop? Let's not forget the power drain.
Sorry I'm dealing a cold from the 7th level of hell.

Content PROVIDERS (almost ALL FCP and Logic users) need Blu-ray authoring and burning capability; it's not just about viewing.

Personally, I have far more Blu-ray movies and now, TV series, than I have DVD. Close to double and rising daily.

 

[xbjllb]

This is about FW. Is every thread going to get taken over by a debate about Blu-ray?

Until Apple gets off its dragging ass and starts servicing high end computer content providers, ABSOLUTELY.

 

[nanofrog]

Until Apple gets off its dragging ass and starts servicing high end computer content providers, ABSOLUTELY.

Blu-Ray works on a Mac. Great for archiving.
Oh wait... You can't play movies.

Seriously, lets not get sidetracked. FW3200 looks interesting, but IIRC, there isn't much available that could actually use it. Add USB 3.0 to the mix, and the confusion continues.

Likely have to wait and see what happens.
Computers.. wait..wait..Wait! I can't stand this!!!

 

[n8mac]

Unfortunately FW has been relegated to the Mac crowd because of the slow adoption of it in the PC market. Just like everything else, they don't seem to understand when something is BETTER for them. Even the fact that the iPod/iPhone lineup for the last 2-3 years has been strictly USB based is a bummer.

The fact that Apple is slowly giving up on FW is just a symptom of what they are loosing, their 'Think Different' way of life. When Apple gives up on something they been using that's different than the mainstream, like FW/PPC/etc., some of the "faithful" get upset. When they do they are quickly replied to with a bunch of technical reasons why they are wrong and how much better the standard is.

What the people who reply don't get is it's not the technical reasons they are upset for, it's the reason they went Apple in the first place - choice.

 

[daschor]

The fact that Apple is slowly giving up on FW is just a symptom of what they are loosing, their 'Think Different' way of life. When Apple gives up on something they been using that's different than the mainstream, like FW/PPC/etc., some of the "faithful" get upset. When they do they are quickly replied to with a bunch of technical reasons why they are wrong and how much better the standard is.

What the people who reply don't get is it's not the technical reasons they are upset for, it's the reason they went Apple in the first place - choice.

I don't see how Apple has given up on FW. Most Apple computers that could benefit from this technology include it already. I'm still using PPC, but I understand the benefits of moving to Intel, and I will eventually leave PPC behind.

I don't think people come to Apple for 'choice'. I think people come to Apple for quality. It's different because it is better - not the other way around.

 

[avkills]

The fact that Apple is slowly giving up on FW is just a symptom of what they are loosing, their 'Think Different' way of life. When Apple gives up on something they been using that's different than the mainstream, like FW/PPC/etc., some of the "faithful" get upset. When they do they are quickly replied to with a bunch of technical reasons why they are wrong and how much better the standard is.

What the people who reply don't get is it's not the technical reasons they are upset for, it's the reason they went Apple in the first place - choice.

Apple is not giving up on Firewire; it is still widely used in the video and audio production world. It makes no sense for Apple to stop using it considering that they have partnered with many other 3rd parties on existing and probably future Firewire products.

-mark

 

[X38]

YEEHAW! Bring on the FireWire 3200 in Mac Pros and MacBook Pros and FireWire 1600 in iMacs!

Better yet, FW3200 across the board from Mac Pro's to iPods, Apple TV's, monitors, everything. Then get it into HDTV's.

 

[X38]

This puts Firewire on a par with eSATA performance.

And IIRC, the actual chips to deliver this new specification went to the foundry a couple of months ago.

...although Apple now has their own chip designer too...


-hh

Yet another reason why the rumor about Apple making their own chipsets (NOT CPU's!) is so interesting. Intel usually gives FW a cold shoulder in their chipsets in order to help promote their USB standard instead even though it is inferior to FW. If Apple does their own chipset, you can bet FW3200 will get integrated sooner & better.

 

[X38]

I hope they just put ESATA on new macbooks.
also wireless USB on macbook air.

Why would you want eSATA when FW3200 is available? It would be nice to see some simplification in interface standards, which is exactly what FW was supposed to achieve. eSATA should be axed before it gets going now that a better standard is available. Hopefully USB 3.0 will now be a non-starter too.

 

[X38]

FireWire might be to little to late...

USB 3.0 brings optical connection in 2008

See also: USB compared with FireWire

"USB 3.0 brings optical connection..." is exactly the point. USB can not make the net jump in speed without switching to an entire new technology in cables and connectors. FW800 has already doubled in speed over the fastest current (2.0) USB and is set to now quadruple in speed to match USB 3.0 all using the existing connectors and cables. There are even prototypes of yet another doubling to come to FW6400. On top of that is the fact that FW (unlike USB) can also operate in an isochronus mode so that it can move large continuous data streams (like video) much more quickly than an equivalent speed or even faster USB.