First Impressions of Intel iMac Core Duo

[zac4mac]

Boot time is useless...

I've seen my G5DP2.0 take close to two minutes sometimes. Biggest culprit seems to be fonts, but I'm to lazy to do a real culling to find out. I only restart my Macs after updates, the rest of the time they are looking for aliens and a solution to the Unified Field Theory(Einstein@home).
Currently running 3 OS X Macs on an AirPort mini-network - moved recently and have not set up any older Macs.
Waiting for my new MBP to ship - 1.83 w/ 100GB 7200 rpm HDD... mmmm new toy.

Z

 

[gwangung]

Apple may, and likely will, eventually reduce the price point of its hardware based on the lower cost and increased commoditization of many system components as a result of the Intel move. This will likely not come until 8-12 months down the line, however, as the company will want to recoup the money spent on system redesign and engeneering in the short term.

I rather think it will go down once the supply and demand get back into equilibrium; if Apple is still getting the higher prices, why in heaven's name would they lower them?

 

[longofest]

Why do you think that Apple's EFI implementation is customized? I would assume that it's the generic x86 EFI implementation that is used by all of intel's hardware. After all, intel were the ones that came up with EFI for the x86 architecture that they design.

I am willing to bet that we will see Windows XP being dual boot with OS X on a Mactel sometime shortly after the MacBook Pros are available. It seems to me that more people probably ordered the MacBook then they did iMac, and therefore we'll get a much larger test base of people ready and willing to try to get Windows going on the nardware natively.

Apple has implemented Open Firmware commands into EFI, so that you can still hold down the 'C' key at startup to start from CD, or hold down option to get startup disks, or hold down 'T' to go into target disk mode, mouse to eject CD, etc... Indicates custom EFI setup or SOMETHING along those lines. May explain why Vista can't boot, because I would think that it should...

 

[Sunrunner]

Apple has implemented Open Firmware commands into EFI, so that you can still hold down the 'C' key at startup to start from CD, or hold down option to get startup disks, or hold down 'T' to go into target disk mode, mouse to eject CD, etc... Indicates custom EFI setup or SOMETHING along those lines. May explain why Vista can't boot, because I would think that it should...

Im sure some harware-level programmer will have a haxie out within the next couple of months that will solve the compatability issue.

 

[longofest]

Good to see that Intel Mac's aren't THAT fast

It's good to see Ars's review pitting the new iMacs vs. the PowerMac Dual 2.5. The Dual 2.5 still cleaned the iMac's clock on almost all of the benchmarks and tests (except some 'flukes' like disk stuff which were explained as fragmentation).

Basically, I think Apple is once again doing what PC manufacturers always do. They inflate the scores of their most current computers. They inflated the G5's scores when it was the hot commodity. Now they are inflating the iMac's scores. I mean, the scores might not be THAT inflated, but still should be taken with a grain of salt. One look at Ars's review and you can see that the new iMac is not 2-3x faster as advertised, but it does have substantial speed improvements.

Those of us who have recently bought G5 Macs can rest assured, we got what we paid for! PowerPC is still a good chip. The Intel macs may save you on your power bill and still get a speed boost, but otherwise this is just a standard speed boost with a twist (maybe a bit more than a twist, since it is a major architecture switch. meh...)

 

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

iLife is universal. Why doesn't someone just encode a iMovie that is about 5 minutes using H.264 and compare that. That would be a good test for speed. Who cares how fast it boots up. Encoding H.264 or MPEG-4 will help me determine if I wanted to upgrade or even replace my Powermac G5 with Intel based Mac. I am sure the Photoshop crap is fast when it uses universal binaries if something really difficult like encoding is faster. Most likely Photoshop CS 3 will use Core Image anyways.

THANK YOU! i was thinking the exact same thing. I'd be willing to help bench mark the H.264 encoding if someone needs help. I have the iMac G5 rev that was RIGHT before they put in the iSIght.

 

[longofest]

Im sure some harware-level programmer will have a haxie out within the next couple of months that will solve the compatability issue.

Lets hope, but might not be that easy. Remember, EFI has been out for a while, as well as WindowsXP, and still there hasn't been a solution. The problem is not with the MacOS, but with Windows operating with EFI (or Vista seeing the customized EFI). Granted, EFI use has been limited, as major PC manufacturers have kept with BIOS, but still. You'd think with all those programmers out there, that there would be a fix already if it was something relatively easy.

 

[Sunrunner]

It's good to see Ars's review pitting the new iMacs vs. the PowerMac Dual 2.5. The Dual 2.5 still cleaned the iMac's clock on almost all of the benchmarks and tests (except some 'flukes' like disk stuff which were explained as fragmentation).

Basically, I think Apple is once again doing what PC manufacturers always do. They inflate the scores of their most current computers. They inflated the G5's scores when it was the hot commodity. Now they are inflating the iMac's scores. I mean, the scores might not be THAT inflated, but still should be taken with a grain of salt. One look at Ars's review and you can see that the new iMac is not 2-3x faster as advertised, but it does have substantial speed improvements.

Those of us who have recently bought G5 Macs can rest assured, we got what we paid for! PowerPC is still a good chip. The Intel macs may save you on your power bill and still get a speed boost, but otherwise this is just a standard speed boost with a twist (maybe a bit more than a twist, since it is a major architecture switch. meh...)

The iMac and the PowerMac are two completely different computer lines geared towards completely different end users. Its like comparing the latest model of Honda Civic to the last years Mustang GT. OF COURSE the Mustang is still going to win. The real comparison will be the new desktop when it comes out.

 

[SiliconAddict]

*shrugs* Windows will boot on it eventually. I'm not worried. In the mean time there will be a ton of lost sales opertunities for Apple. *shrugs*

 

[Peace]

iLife is universal. Why doesn't someone just encode a iMovie that is about 5 minutes using H.264 and compare that. That would be a good test for speed. Who cares how fast it boots up. Encoding H.264 or MPEG-4 will help me determine if I wanted to upgrade or even replace my Powermac G5 with Intel based Mac. I am sure the Photoshop crap is fast when it uses universal binaries if something really difficult like encoding is faster. Most likely Photoshop CS 3 will use Core Image anyways.

Off Topic: The iMac G5 sounded really slow if it takes over a 1 minute to boot up, I wonder if it is a network issue that it is hung up on or something.

Ya know I did just that with my DTK and my Powermac G5
the DTK has a P4 3.6ghz with 1gig memory and 128 megs onboard shared video
the dual G5 2.3 has 4gigs memory and ATI Radeon 9600 128 megs

Here's what I got :
Using i'Life 0'6
Imported native widescreen DV video from my camera via firewire 400
3 minutes worth..

I then exported the video in its native *.dv and iPod format using iMovie HD on both my DTK and my dual G5 2.3 rev b.
For .dv format:
the dual rev b took about 2 minutes
the DTK took about 5 minutes
I then exported using the default iPod format H.264 320X240
the dual took about 4 minutes
the DTK took only 3 minutes..

Keep in mind that when I had iLife'05 on my DTK ( using Rosetta) it would have taken at least 30 minutes to do the same under 10.4.3 8f1111g.

This isn't an Intel iMac test but if the dual-core Intels are faster like I think they are encoding will probably be faster..

Now..
One More Thing....

XBench 1.2 was built July 2005
This was before OS X 10.4.3 was even out to developers..
Altivec wasn't supported under the Intel OS X until 10.4.38f1111g which came out November 2005.
Furthermore
Xcode tools 2.0 and 2.1 didnt come out till November also so XBench was built using older more buggy Xcode tools without native Altivec support.

I personally would not trust XBench marks until they build it using XCode 2.2 on 10.4.4..

 

[odedia]

I build things, break things and catch things on fire. I love my job.

Z

Hey man, if that's what you do, then I love you job too

Oded S.

 

[Macmaniac]

Give the Windows Crackers two weeks and Windows will run on the Intel Macs. It was only a matter of time with the developer version, it should not take that long now that its in the open.

I hope game performance will improve on these new machines when the code is UB. The specs are decent! Come on Blizzard where is the UB of WoW?

 

[UberMac]

I was using a new iMac earlier, sorry didn't do any fancy comparisons *whoops* BUT...the thing that really struck me was...

Safari seems snappier™

 

[Randall]

Apple has implemented Open Firmware commands into EFI, so that you can still hold down the 'C' key at startup to start from CD, or hold down option to get startup disks, or hold down 'T' to go into target disk mode, mouse to eject CD, etc... Indicates custom EFI setup or SOMETHING along those lines. May explain why Vista can't boot, because I would think that it should...

Well that's just key mappings. You can control all the hardware from the EFI shell.

Windows XP will run on the intel Macs, it's just a matter of finding a way to hack XP to boot using EFI. The 64-bit version of XP already does, and Vista does as well. I don't think it will be too difficult for a hardware level programmer who's looking for "ultimate fame" to do.

 

[BOOMBA]

Looks like a quad G5 is still a good deal.

 

[Sunrunner]

I was using a new iMac earlier, sorry didn't do any fancy comparisons *whoops* BUT...the thing that really struck me was...

Safari seems snappier™

Nice Sig!

 

[mark88]

Which part of finder was the reviewer referring to when he said FTFF?

 

[rxse7en]

I believe this first gen of Intel Macs is a great endeavor. Keep in mind, the switch was supposedly for the future processors--the ones that will leave the current crop of Intel procs and Power procs in the dust. Personally, I'll be waiting until next year, when all of the apps are UB and the speed gains are glaring.

B

 

[macwinuser]

Where is the video

That is the first time that i have seen the intel iMac vs. the G5 iMac bootup time video. Is it just me or is the G5 iMac sloooooow? Both my G4 700mhz iMac, my 1ghz Ti PB and our schools 2ghz PM all boot faster than the G5 iMac in the test.

What video are you talking about? I would like to see it. Do you have a link?

 

[weckart]

Well that's just key mappings. You can control all the hardware from the EFI shell.

Windows XP will run on the intel Macs, it's just a matter of finding a way to hack XP to boot using EFI. The 64-bit version of XP already does, and Vista does as well. I don't think it will be too difficult for a hardware level programmer who's looking for "ultimate fame" to do.

Ars Technica reports that Vista does not boot on the new Macs. It will take more than just a quick haxie.

 

[Peace]

OS X for Intel does not have an efi shell that I know of.I may be wrong.

 

[firestarter]

I believe this first gen of Intel Macs is a great endeavor. Keep in mind, the switch was supposedly for the future processors--the ones that will leave the current crop of Intel procs and Power procs in the dust. Personally, I'll be waiting until next year, when all of the apps are UB and the speed gains are glaring.

These are the future processors and this is the year!

It'll be Q2 before this technology reaches Intel desktop processors, but essentially this Yonah/Core duo is what we've been waiting for.

There will be improvements to these low power processors midyear too (with a switch to 64 bit), but there won't be anything siginificantly different around for another 18 months now.

 

[zoetropeuk]

That is the first time that i have seen the intel iMac vs. the G5 iMac bootup time video. Is it just me or is the G5 iMac sloooooow? Both my G4 700mhz iMac, my 1ghz Ti PB and our schools 2ghz PM all boot faster than the G5 iMac in the test.

This is not directed at you personally but so what if it takes 60 seconds to boot, get a life. Just get out of bed 60 seconds earlier and by the time you go to bed you'll be even again.

Just can't believe some of the benign issues people on this forum worry about.

 

[Randall]

These are the future processors and this is the year!

It'll be Q2 before this technology reaches Intel desktop processors, but essentially this Yonah/Core duo is what we've been waiting for.

There will be improvements to these low power processors midyear too (with a switch to 64 bit), but there won't be anything siginificantly different around for another 18 months now.

Bingo, wait for 64-bit Merom, and then you will have the ultimate laptop.

 

[corywoolf]

I've seen my G5DP2.0 take close to two minutes sometimes. Biggest culprit seems to be fonts, but I'm to lazy to do a real culling to find out. I only restart my Macs after updates, the rest of the time they are looking for aliens and a solution to the Unified Field Theory(Einstein@home).
Currently running 3 OS X Macs on an AirPort mini-network - moved recently and have not set up any older Macs.
Waiting for my new MBP to ship - 1.83 w/ 100GB 7200 rpm HDD... mmmm new toy.

Z

didn't they shut down SETI?