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First iPhone Chips Made in America Soon to Start Mass Production

jz0309 said:
Just as much as before. It’s the actual wafers that are produced in AZ, then they get shipped to wherever assembly and test are done.
It has been very common in semiconductor that chips (the packaged chip that is) travel around the world before they get into consumers hands, I don’t see that changing any time soon.
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I always hear this as the main argument for everything being in Shenzhen for example because all the industry is right there.

Maybe I’m vastly misunderstanding how this works. I’m really just asking what happens to the chips after they’re made in AZ.

You said wherever assembly happens but that is presumably China so it sounds like they are exporting at least the chips and then re-importing them as finished product.

If that’s a correct understanding I’m not sure how much that really helps until assembly moves too.
 
CarAnalogy said:
I always hear this as the main argument for everything being in Shenzhen for example because all the industry is right there.

Maybe I’m vastly misunderstanding how this works. I’m really just asking what happens to the chips after they’re made in AZ.

You said wherever assembly happens but that is presumably China so it sounds like they are exporting at least the chips and then re-importing them as finished product.

If that’s a correct understanding I’m not sure how much that really helps until assembly moves too.
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Not all assembly happens in China, predominately Asia though as in eg Malaydia, South Korea, Thailand, Vietnam etc.. I don’t know where Apple has their chips assembled/tested tbh.
Assembly in particular is a labor intensive process, hence why it’s in Asia, and typically Test is right next to Assembly and after that most chips are put in tape and reel.
Then off to where they get put onto the board, the PCB, and then those go to wherever the final product is assembled…
So yes, long journey.
 
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TechnoMonk said:
AZ was a big player in chip fabs in 80s and 90s. Motorola along with Intel had huge fabrication facility in AZ, which were shut down in 2000s and plants moved to Asia. Arizona has long history in semiconductors compared to any of the states you mentioned. Not everything has to be money and politics. ASU was key source of providing semi conductor talent, and they are converting old Motorola Manufacturing facility to specialized zone for fabs.
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Mactech20 said:
Can someone educate my ignorance?

Why on earth did TSMC decide to build their plant in Arizona? Doesn't chip manufacturing require MASSIVE amounts of water? Why not build the plant in somewhere like OH, PA, TN, MI, literally any state with an abundance of water? Seems really counterintuitive and a recipe for disaster down the road. Again, maybe that's just my ignorance on the topic. Would be happy to hear any insight.
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Also Intel has their main plants in Arizona. That's the main reason. ASU and community colleges in the area have a tech pipeline for semiconductor jobs.

www.intel.com

Intel Breaks Ground in Arizona

New factories will support growing demand for Intel’s products and provide committed capacity for foundry customers.
www.intel.com www.intel.com
 
Mactech20 said:
Can someone educate my ignorance?

Why on earth did TSMC decide to build their plant in Arizona? Doesn't chip manufacturing require MASSIVE amounts of water? Why not build the plant in somewhere like OH, PA, TN, MI, literally any state with an abundance of water? Seems really counterintuitive and a recipe for disaster down the road. Again, maybe that's just my ignorance on the topic. Would be happy to hear any insight.
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Arizona has low humidity and predictable weather.
 
I hope the quality is not as bad as cars made in the USA. Americans are not known for their precision ;-)
 
Mactech20 said:
Can someone educate my ignorance?

Why on earth did TSMC decide to build their plant in Arizona? Doesn't chip manufacturing require MASSIVE amounts of water? Why not build the plant in somewhere like OH, PA, TN, MI, literally any state with an abundance of water? Seems really counterintuitive and a recipe for disaster down the road. Again, maybe that's just my ignorance on the topic. Would be happy to hear any insight.
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They build their own water recycling plants adjacent to the chip plants. They actually use very little of the states water on an ongoing basis.
 
You know why they produced in China in Taiwan, right? Because it’s more cost effective and Apple can produce in higher amounts, looking forward how this will work out for US made chips and the impact on prices
 
MrMojo1 said:
Money & politics.

www.theverge.com

Water shortages loom over future semiconductor fabs in Arizona

Water and semiconductor shortages come to a head in Arizona.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
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From the article you linked:

Last year, the company pledged that by 2030 it will restore and return more freshwater than it uses. It’s nearing that benchmark in Arizona, where Intel says it cleaned up and returned 95 percent of the freshwater it used in 2020. It has its own water treatment plant at its Ocotillo campus in Chandler that’s similar to a municipal plant. There’s also a “brine reduction facility,” a public-private partnership with the city of Chandler, that brings 2.5 million gallons of Intel’s wastewater a day back to drinking standard. Intel uses some of the treated water again, and the rest is sent to replenish groundwater sources or be used by surrounding communities.
 
Roberto1234 said:
I hope the quality is not as bad as cars made in the USA. Americans are not known for their precision ;-)
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It’s less the American workers and more the American management. General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler vehicles all have a terrible reputation for quality and Toyota, Honda, etc. all have an excellent reputation but for the North American market, are all “American made” (notably the Toyota Camry, the bar for reliability, being sourced from more U.S. parts than “American” cars.)

The fact is that American manufacturing in general does well when it’s very specialized or very high precision. But struggles to compete when a product is low margin/high volume and is very labor intensive.


mka2802 said:
You know why they produced in China in Taiwan, right? Because it’s more cost effective and Apple can produce in higher amounts, looking forward how this will work out for US made chips and the impact on prices
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That’s accurate to PCB manufacturing, but less so for specific microchips. As I said above, high precision is where U.S. manufacturing is competitive.
 
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HJM.NL said:
TSMC isn’t Chinese (yet), it’s Taiwanese. But good to see there is movement to produce domestic.
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Well I live in this part of the hemisphere I do know that. It’s just funny how some people have taken this totally out of context.
 
mka2802 said:
You know why they produced in China in Taiwan, right? Because it’s more cost effective and Apple can produce in higher amounts, looking forward how this will work out for US made chips and the impact on prices
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1) Taiwan isnt in China in any practical sense

2) No, it’s because Taiwan is the center of cutting edge CPU production. Even now TSMC is deliberately not deploying their latest fab tech in the US, they’ll keep that home in Taiwan. It may be cheaper there, but that’s an added bonus, Taiwan has a deep national security interest in keeping the bleeding edge at home
 
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WarmWinterHat said:
TSMC's CEO has stated that they will not destroy their facilities or equipment if China invades.

That said, it's good to diversify where components are made.
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ASML alone has remote kill switches in all of TSMC’s gear, with full knowledge, permission, and access for TSMC.

Also worth noting even if TSMC didnt use it you can bet the US military would toss some missiles at TSMC’s fabs in Taiwan if an invasion looked likely to succeed, assuming the Taiwanese military didn't beat them to it.

Also China launching an invasion of Taiwan would be very very very bloody in any case, and the destruction from the fighting alone would probably level those facilities.

For both the Taiwanese and the world’s sake let’s hope China is content to stay on its side of the Taiwan strait and keep flexing rather than going hot
 
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Well this thread turned into a stew of economic-nationalism and chest beating, as well as the usual paste of ignorance.

And it's not surprising.
 
krakenrelease said:
It never should have left America in the first place. Ross Perot nailed it.
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My thoughts Exactly we need more company’s to start producing there products in America if apple could bring close to 100% of there products produce in the US other companies could possibly follow suite which could bring a even bigger increase in the job market and possibly wages as well
 
Great to hear about production starting in the US. If the new Watch SE ends up having the S9 chip, it may use some of these chips.
 
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The iPhone's with those Arizona chips cost $199 more for the additional labour and shipping costs.
Though it's worth it as it comes with a "Designed in California, somewhat produced in Arizona " sticker and mini US flag.
 
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