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A touchscreen is not required for something to be a smartphone. Or a smartwatch. Or a smart anything.



People downloaded plenty of apps to their phones prior to the iPhone.

It's all relative to the number of devices of the period.

Heck, flip phones downloaded more copies of Shazam in less time that iPhone users did.



A completely arbitrary... and frankly, fanboy... definition.

Whatever Apple decides to (finally) allow in their iPhone, does not define a smartphone. Using that thought process, the first iPhone defined a smartphone as one without a video cam or copy/paste or MMS capability or multitasking or notifications.



What do you think the ability in iOS to show a list of running apps and stop them and/or remove them from memory is all about? It's a process manager.

The claim that having a file system makes something NOT a smartphone, is beyond ridiculous.

What defines a smartphone is not decided by Apple, but what's popular in a smartphone can be. Perhaps that's what you actually mean.
This whole debate over what exactly a "smartphone" is is pretty laughable. It's a definition that has no meaning besides analysis and marketing.

What really matters is what the device does.

Back in the day, cellphones did (a). Some did (a) and, if you were willing to put in a little effort, (b). Some did (a) and (b), and if you had some degree of technical courage, (c). iPhone scrambled those categories. Perhaps you feel that the first iPhone didn't do anything more than other high-end phones of the era. But it changed the parameters of what kind of knowledge you needed to do (b) or (c). iPhone brought both of those much closer to the least technically astute, or to those interested in putting their effort elsewhere.
 
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What do you think the ability in iOS to show a list of running apps and stop them and/or remove them from memory is all about? It's a process manager.
Hah! There is no such thing as a list of running apps on iOS, what you mean is the list of recently used apps. This list says nothing about whether an app is running or if it is still present in memory. It's just a shortcut to start the app again without looking for it on the springboard. When you remove an app from this list, it's also removed from memory. But depending on how much free memory you have, it might already have been removed automatically by the system. ( That's your Safari tab reloading problem right there! ) An iPhone user never needs to know about this list, never needs to open this list, never needs to remove a single app from this list and will still never run out of memory either. It's automatic process management, computing without user allocated resources. It just works! ( Unless an app illegally plays silent audio in the background to prevent itself from being suspended and removed from memory. )
The claim that having a file system makes something NOT a smartphone, is beyond ridiculous.
It's not. The main attraction of a smartphone is that it doesn't need to be managed by an expert. Not only can't you see the filesystem, you also don't need to. The icon represents an app and all data is managed within the app itself.
What defines a smartphone is not decided by Apple, but what's popular in a smartphone can be. Perhaps that's what you actually mean.
No really, I mean they invented the smartphone. Mainly by creating the app metaphor, how do you install it, how do you delete it, how do you move it and put it in a folder. What happens when you push the home button and what when you push the power button. This all seems stupefying simple, but that's what made the smartphone useable by non-geeks.
 
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A touchscreen is not required for something to be a smartphone. Or a smartwatch. Or a smart anything.
Well, it kind of is (almost) required. Direct manipulation of digital objects is a big part of the simplification of computing. Icons and Drag&Drop already helped the GUI-controlled PC to it's market success. And the first such PC was also invented by Apple in form of the Macintosh. But the indirectness of mouse movement here and pointer movement there added to the confusion and already stopped some people from learning how to handle a PC. That's why some kind of finger touch control is now part of every smart thing.

The so-called smartTVs which instead work with a keyboard might be smart in name only, because they don't have touch and/or dictation. The final "TV as a Computer" user interface hasn't been nailed yet, because one sits further away from the screen it's a little more complicated. The new Apple TV with tvOS is trying to create this new smartTV interface metaphor. If it succeeds, soon every TV will have an Android version of the Siri Remote. And yes, I know about the Fire TV Remote's prior dictation capabilities. It was a step in the right direction, but we aren't there yet.

remote-and-interaction-remote-diagram_2x.png

Not a Touchscreen, but a Touch Surface.
To make it smarter.​
 
Hah! There is no such thing as a list of running apps on iOS, what you mean is the list of recently used apps. This list says nothing about whether an app is running or if it is still present in memory.

True, it doesn't show us the details, but it's a task manager nevertheless, since it can be used to close misbehaving apps and/or apps we think are using resources in the background. Apple says so:

Force an app to close in iOS

If an app is unresponsive and your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch still reacts to button presses, you can force the app to close:
  1. Press the Home button two times quickly. You'll see small previews of your recently used apps.
  2. Swipe left to find the app you want to close.
  3. Swipe up on the app's preview to close it.
- https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201330

It can also force a recently used app that's still in memory, to leave memory, along with its task manager screenshot. This is very helpful for those of us constantly running into Safari tab caching problems.

When Jobs said, "If you see a task manager they blew it", what he really meant was "If you know it's a task manager, they blew it." Apple's problem was that their Home button was originally their single task killer, but that wonderfully simple hidden process reset method would not work with actual multitasking.

This all seems stupefying simple, but that's what made the smartphone useable by non-geeks.

You seem to want to vaguely define a smartphone as one that is easier to use, whatever that means. Heck, today's iPhone with its hidden gestures might well have been seen as _not_ so easy to use back in 2007.

Easiness is not what defines a smartphone. It it were, then the iPhone's inability to do certain things as easily as you can on other smartphones, would lower its rank to a feature phone by your definition.

In any case, let's save this for its own thread, instead of derailing this one.
 
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Yes I have the 64GB silver SE and it is nice, runs really smooth, great picture and camera. Battery life is so nice!!! compared to the 5s and even 6s in my opinion. I have been running it all day yesterday to add all the apps and get things setup and still at this afternoon the next day I am just now getting down to 10% on battery charge. just watch out getting this on Verizon as they charge $20 per month if you choose the monthly option or $40 per month for contract price of $49 for 64GB. They do not have contract price for the 16GB. If you pay either one in full it is still $20 a month fee.
Thanks for the tip. We do have Verizon, but I'm starting to get fed up with them and have pretty much decided to switch to T-Mobile at some point. My contract is up in September. I think T-Mobile will pay off my contract, but we've got a lot on our plate between now and then as we're trying to sell our house and move, so I want to hold off and see what kind of signal the new place gets. My wife doesn't mind holding off to get her SE either. If I just straight up buy it off contract though, as it should work with either. Not sure what to do yet.

I'm glad to see the battery reports have been positive as that's my wife's biggest complaint with her iPhone 5. We even had it replaced for free last year (sleep/wake button replacement program) with a refurbished version that was supposed to have a new battery and while the battery was better at the time, it has slowly worn down some again and just isn't ideal.

Welcome to the forums! I feel like I've been noticing a lot more new faces around here, but what's weird is most of you seem friendly. I just feel like we've been inundated with super trolly kids over the past couple years.
 
True, it doesn't show us the details, but it's a task manager nevertheless, since it can be used to close misbehaving apps and/or apps we think are using resources in the background. Apple says so:
Right, but on a traditional multi-tasking computer the user constantly has to close even well-behaving applications or else the multitude of running apps will use up all recourses. That's why Apple developed a new Process Model for OS X 10.7 Lion. Please read this page:

John Siracusa Review - OS X Lion: Process Model

The difference between iOS and OS X is that things like Automatic Termination, Autosave and Document Restore aren't opt-in on iOS. That's how all iOS apps must work. At any time by the push of a home button the app must be ready to be suspended and later terminated without losing any data or unfinished operations. And it must preserve its state to pick up where you left. It just works, because there is technology which makes everything work automatically. We so easily forget how it was when you could quit an application before saving your files and losing all your work. Smartphone users don't need to worry about that anymore.
When Jobs said, "If you see a task manager they blew it", what he really meant was "If you know it's a task manager, they blew it." Apple's problem was that their Home button was originally their single task killer, but that wonderfully simple hidden process reset method would not work with actual multitasking.
False, it was actually a huge innovation that iOS is predominantly a single-tasking OS. That's what made it all work on such limited hardware resources. With split screen multitasking on iPad it's now effectively a dual-tasking OS, but still not triple-tasking. There are a few exceptions like background audio multitasking and picture in picture video multitasking, but for the main part only system processes can run at the same time.
You seem to want to vaguely define a smartphone as one that is easier to use, whatever that means. Heck, today's iPhone with its hidden gestures might well have been seen as _not_ so easy to use back in 2007.
Not just easier, but easy enough that a user without any knowledge about computers will be able to use the device without ever running into any problems, given all apps follow the rules of the OS. That's a smartphone in a nutshell. Yes iOS has a problem with hidden gestures, but that's what 3D Touch was developed for, to be a kind of right-click alternative to normal tapping.
Easiness is not what defines a smartphone. If it were, then the iPhone's inability to do certain things as easily as you can on other smartphones, would lower its rank to a feature phone by your definition.
I'm talking easier by a magnitude, not by a little. And that includes the system as a whole, not just certain aspects of it. If Android was truly easier than iOS, than one couldn't write headlines like this:

Android’s back button is still a ball of confusion and inconsistency

But yes, if we start using the term smartphone for something that is substantially different from the smartphones of today, lets say Siri becomes a true AI and everything is controlled by voice commands, than the rank of current smartphones will be lowered to deafphones. And the device who started this development will be the new first smartphone with all inventor credentials.
In any case, let's save this for its own thread, instead of derailing this one.
Oh yes, the iPhone SE. The best small phone from the company who invented the smartphone. Power button on top, no protruding camera, useable with one hand. This is what's the closest to the original iPhone concept and therefore I love it.
 
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Oh yes, the iPhone SE. The best small phone from the company who invented the smartphone. Power button on top, no protruding camera, useable with one hand. This is what's the closest to the original iPhone concept and therefore I love it.

Apple didn't invent the smartphone.
 
Apple didn't invent the smartphone.
Yeah, that's the conventional wisdom. Don't bother to explain why not. Here are some questions one may find helpful to answer. If we're living in the smartphone age and Nokia invented the smartphone, why is Nokia bankrupt? And if Apple didn't invent the smartphone, how did it become the richest company in the whole world? The logical explanation is, there is a profound difference between the smartphones of then and the smartphones of now. They are not the same thing. What we recognize as a smartphone today is an iPhone-like device.
 
"Not necessary" in what sense? You seem to think better performance is "not necessary". 640K should be enough memory for anyone, right?
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No, I said that 2GB of RAM takes no more space on the motherboard than 1GB does. You said that the reason Apple did not have more memory is because it wanted to keep the size down.

Why are you complaining about my arguments when the totality of your argument is "firstly wrong"?

I'm sorry that I embarrassed you but facts are facts.

Ahh yes, the infamous words that Bill Gates never actually spoke.

The reason Apple used less memory is because of the power draw of previous generations of memory...Nokia did the same. Embarrassed me? Really, you take this too personally.
 
Why are you so certain it is the barometer that provides this information?

A flight of stairs in a commercial modern building is 12 feet. No data that I am aware of, and I have looked for a while, has shown that a barometer can be accurate to such a tiny change in elevation.

Moreover, a barometer would then not be able to tell the difference between you climbing a few sets of stairs, or the weather changing above you head, or the differecne between stairs and an escalator.

No, I am pretty sure the accelerometer is used for counting flights of stairs climbed. The data it outputs can be differentiated between stairs, escalator, and elevator; and it is sensetive enough to detect even millimeters of movement.
I think you are right. When I've used my wife's stairlift the phone doesn't count it as a flight climbed. When I walk up, it does. (6S plus)
 
Ahh yes, the infamous words that Bill Gates never actually spoke.

The reason Apple used less memory is because of the power draw of previous generations of memory...Nokia did the same. Embarrassed me? Really, you take this too personally.

I don't really know what you're on about with the personal stuff, I'm just interested in the facts, and you seem to be desperate to ignore them. You don't seem to like the fact that you've been consistently wrong on this one.

Apple may well have had only 1GB memory at some point due to power concerns, but those days are long gone and memory has been power efficient for some time, so much so that it's inconsequential, yet Apple has not expanded memory beyond a paltry 1GB. Why? Becuase Apple has been pinching pennies on its "premium offering" to the detriment of its less-than-well-informed customers.
 
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