First Looks at Mac Microsoft Office 2008

[megfilmworks]

Don't think I'll be upgrading.
I'd much rather use Keynote than Powerpoint.
And my current version of Word is good enough,
as far as Excel; hate it and I don't need Entourage.
Even if it was all free, I would still pass.

 

[Roderick Usher]

Upon the creation of the MacBU, Microsoft signed a five-year agreement with Apple to support Macs for five years. That agreement expired, and we continued to make new Mac products. Office 2004 was shipped after the expiration of the original agreement, as were a few versions of Messenger:Mac, and Remote Desktop Connection was a brand-new free download.

In 2006, on stage with Steve at MWSF, we announced a new five-year agreement to continue work on our Mac products. We did this only to quell fears that we were going to pull out of the market. Office:Mac is a successful product, so we have lots of incentive to continue to make it.

I'll drop in here to add my generic message of support. You guys at the MacBU do commendable things with the resources available, while having more unwarranted monkey-poo flung at you than probably any other Mac software developer. Just know that for every dozen of those monkeys, there are at least a few folks that genuinely appreciate all your hard work and what it means for the Mac platform. You rock.

 

[MikeTheC]

Well, at least they're starting to look more like Aqua-native apps. I suppose that's a good thing.

And is it just me or does Word remind anyone else here of Pagis?

Hmm...

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

Autosave, please. (Yes, without resorting to Applescript.) Mild insanity to have a productivity suite without it.

I completely agree. I wasn't even aware it didn't have it until a graphical error forced me to restart my Mac. I started searching for the autosave folder after rebooting only to discover my document was lost.

I may test run Office 2008 but I've been using Pages since October and I haven't missed Office. That and Office without the support for macros makes it a different version of Numbers which doesn't help justify the ridiculous pricing schemes I saw on the first page of this thread. That's up near Photoshop range isn't it? Gosh.

 

[beethovengirl]

MS dropped Macro support for the same reason they don't make Office 100% compatible...

How is Office for Mac not 100% compatible with Office for Windows [other than the lack of macros and the tiff display issue mentioned earlier]?

 

[blashphemy]

Real questions here are: how is it similar to Office 2007, and how is it better (Office 2004 was better than Office 2003 in a couple ways, such as use of palettes and stuff).

Didn't read the article, but I figure MS has some kind of replacement for macros/VB with some kind of converter ala .doc and .docx because of how important this is to businesses.

 

[nadyne]

That and Office without the support for macros makes it a different version of Numbers which doesn't help justify the ridiculous pricing schemes I saw on the first page of this thread. That's up near Photoshop range isn't it? Gosh.

The prices that you saw on the first page were from APC Magazine, which is an Australian publication. US prices are as follows:
Home/Student - $149.95
Standard - $399.95 ($239.95 upgrade)
Special Media Edition - $499.95 ($299.95 upgrade)

(This is the same information that was reported here on MacRumors earlier.)

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[jpine]

Not sure why everyone is up in arms about no macros...it was announced that it would not have macro support MONTHS ago....

Maybe I'm speaking out of my hat, but aren't macros kind of a security problem on some level?

 

[123]

If you want to know what led us to the decision to remove VBA, you can read a blog post from one of our lead developers: Saying Goodbye to Visual Basic.

This, as well as the follow-up, is full of BS excuses, it simply can't be *that* hard to port the newest Windows code. However, I am sure you had your reasons. Nonetheless, I think that:

a) It is a half-assed strategy. Either support corporate users (VBA) or drop Entourage too.

b) It might be a good decision in the short term and for Microsoft (even though I doubt it), but it is certainly a bad decision for the Mac platform in general.

Now I just hope OpenOffice.org aqua is making some progress soon.

 

[pamon]

i'll grab the student version and then hope it increases productivity over 2004. Use it enough where if it goes 10% faster, i'm happy

 

[Bruizer]

Wooo Hooo!!!!

I've been beta testing Office 2008 for the last two or three months.

First everything runs amazingly faster than 2004.

...

That is all I ask. Time is Money and this might turn into a really cheap upgrade

 

[greenbreadmmm]

i have iwork 08 im bout to take my first college english class which is all about writing and rhetoric, so i hear there will be alot of citing of sources and what not, should i get office 08 or will iwork 08 be ok, also, is there any benefit of buying 04 and getting 08 with the upgrade, or can i just get 08 for the same price when i comes out? thanks

 

[khunsanook]

Ouch on the pricing - I'm in a grad department, but at a Thai university, so no "discounts" for me I much prefer Pages and Keynote, but for all collaborative projects I'm stuck in the world of Office. I've grown tired of keyboard lag and full blast MacBook fans in Office 2004 (even with my RAM maxed out), but for the new prices I'll be saying NO THANK YOU!! 'tis a shame.

 

[Bruizer]

This works with Pages...

i have iwork 08 im bout to take my first college english class which is all about writing and rhetoric, so i hear there will be alot of citing of sources and what not, should i get office 08 or will iwork 08 be ok, also, is there any benefit of buying 04 and getting 08 with the upgrade, or can i just get 08 for the same price when i comes out? thanks

Don't know if it is what you are after.

http://www.ThirdStreetSoftware.com/

 

[digitalbiker]

Upon the creation of the MacBU, Microsoft signed a five-year agreement with Apple to support Macs for five years. That agreement expired, and we continued to make new Mac products. Office 2004 was shipped after the expiration of the original agreement, as were a few versions of Messenger:Mac, and Remote Desktop Connection was a brand-new free download.

In 2006, on stage with Steve at MWSF, we announced a new five-year agreement to continue work on our Mac products. We did this only to quell fears that we were going to pull out of the market. Office:Mac is a successful product, so we have lots of incentive to continue to make it.



If you want to know what led us to the decision to remove VBA, you can read a blog post from one of our lead developers: Saying Goodbye to Visual Basic. We know that this isn't optimal for some of our users, but we were in a pretty tough position. Office 2008 was already delayed, and delaying it further for in the inclusion of VBA didn't seem like a great decision to meet the needs of the majority of our users who were looking for a Universal application (not to mention some of our other features, like native support of the new XML-based file format or the million rows in Excel) sooner rather than later.

To help mitigate some of the concerns about losing VBA, we've improved our already well-established AppleScript support, and have added support for Automator. We know that this doesn't fix all of the issues involved with VBA, but hope that it can go some way towards addressing them. If you haven't seen it yet, AppleScripting genius Paul Berkowitz wrote a massive VBA to AppleScript transition guide.

Regards,
Nadyne.

Thank you Nadyne for the informative response. I get so sick of reading all of the garbage spewed about Microsoft on these boards. I am glad that the MBU still exists and is working to create professional quality apps for OSX.

Your logic is flawed. Yes, MS makes money on every sale of Office. But they also make money on every sale of Windows as well. Therefore, they have a huge incentive to cripple the Mac version of Office because that would diminish the appeal of the Mac to many current Windows users. If compatibility was perfect then many more would switch (why is there no Access or Outlook on the Mac?--for more on the second question-->http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2007/05/why_did_microsoft_replace_outl.html)

Microsoft has more to lose with Windows users flocking to the Mac than to gain from Mac users buying Office.

It is not strictly a market share issue (ie numbers of copies of Windows OS sold), but a control of the market (particularly corporate market) issue. MS's bank is fat because the entire corporate infrastructure in the US (and the world) is largely reliant upon MS's products. THAT is what they want desperately to maintain and they can see a trend starting towards Apple that scares them to death (and rightly should.)

I'm sorry but this sounds like total FUD!

Microsoft has something like 91% market share. If anything, Microsoft needs Apple so that the Fed doesn't crack down tighter for being a Monopoly.

Besides MS wants to sell a lot of software to Apple users. That way they win either way. Also the MBU isn't purposely crippling anything. They really just don't have the resources to take on the task of moving VBA and other MS specific code to OSX UB. Most of MS's resources are working on Windows platform software because that is where 91% of their installed base is at.

To be honest Microsoft is more worried about competing with itself than it is with Apple. Vista has to win the battle against XP, so that more installed users will make the switch and MS can move on supporting only one primary OS.

 

[sonicboom]

Take a hike MS

I was looking forward to this release of office, and thought I was going to jump on it on day one... but not now.

I don't use word much (my company uses an internal wiki for most documentation these days). I occasionally use Excel. For me, this release was about Entourage. I've been using the clunky Entourage v.X for at least 4 years, since my company uses exchange for: email, scheduling meetings, and even scheduling conference rooms (what a bad idea... but anyway).

After all this time Entourage is not fully exchange capable? What the hell have you people been doing for the past 4+ years!? Oh wait... stupid me... preserving your Windows strangle hold.

What a shame.

I guess it's time to stop hoping MS will change their ways, and for me to seek alternatives to Entourage.

 

[sushi]

The new Excel drops Macros?? WTF!?!?!

Yep, not a good decision by Microsoft.

Not sure why everyone is up in arms about no macros...it was announced that it would not have macro support MONTHS ago....

Maybe because no one was really paying attention since it was so far away.

Simply use Vmware or Parallels.

Yes, these two emulators provide a wonderful way to run Windows applications on the Mac.

I wish they would just clone the functionality of the PC version for the Mac -- especially Outlook.

IMHO, this is a prime example of the lack of leadership at Microsoft. They are not looking to the future, nor fund revenues.

Most folks who use Microsoft Office for the Mac use it to be compatible with their office computers which are generally Windows boxes running Office. This means that folks who use Windows Office at work and have a Mac at home will purchase a copy of Mac Office. This is why both versions need to be compatible.

If Microsoft were smart, they would create an Office suite that would run on Windows, Mac and Unix/Linux and have a Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Presentation and Database software that is totally compatible across the platforms -- even so far as using the same interface. And these versions would be multi-language (unicode) capable.

But no, instead Microsoft has lagged in innovation. And this will cost them in the log run.

Excel without VB support is an example of this. Why stick with Excel when I can't use VB. Might as well use Numbers instead. Numbers is cheaper, works better, nicer interface, and is simpler. I mean why bother with Excel if there is no compelling reason?

Office:Mac is a successful product, so we have lots of incentive to continue to make it.

So why inhibit the Mac version with the elimination of VB support?

This makes no sense.

If you want to know what led us to the decision to remove VBA, you can read a blog post from one of our lead developers: Saying Goodbye to Visual Basic. We know that this isn't optimal for some of our users, but we were in a pretty tough position. Office 2008 was already delayed, and delaying it further for in the inclusion of VBA didn't seem like a great decision to meet the needs of the majority of our users who were looking for a Universal application (not to mention some of our other features, like native support of the new XML-based file format or the million rows in Excel) sooner rather than later.

Yes, XML support is important for sure.

XML is not new. The Windows version had this planned for a few years already. Are you suggesting that the MBU was not purvey to this information?

To help mitigate some of the concerns about losing VBA, we've improved our already well-established AppleScript support, and have added support for Automator. We know that this doesn't fix all of the issues involved with VBA, but hope that it can go some way towards addressing them. If you haven't seen it yet, AppleScripting genius Paul Berkowitz wrote a massive VBA to AppleScript transition guide.

Who cares about Applescript support? The majority of folks who want VBA support on the Mac side are those who want to integrate Macs into the work environment which is predominately Windows based, or they want to use a Mac at home and be compatible with their work PC which is running Microsoft Office.

Is this so hard to understand?

BTW, why is their no Outlook for the Mac version of Office?

Thank you Nadyne for the informative response. I get so sick of reading all of the garbage spewed about Microsoft on these boards. I am glad that the MBU still exists and is working to create professional quality apps for OSX.

Yes, thank you Nadyne for your informative post.

Sorry to shoot the messenger. Appreciate you providing the info that you did.

Having said that, I strongly question the leadership of the MacBU for long term Mac support in the direction that they are taking. With the new version of Office 2007, it will be easier to run Office 2007 via Parallels or VMWare than to run a limited version called Mac Office 2008.

Besides, many folks can get Office 2007 at a very reduced cost or free so it will be cheaper to purchase a copy of Parallels, Windows XP (OEM) and Office 2007 than it is to purchase Office 2008.

Very disappointed.

 

[nadyne]

If Microsoft were smart, they would create an Office suite that would run on Windows, Mac and Unix/Linux and have a Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Presentation and Database software that is totally compatible across the platforms -- even so far as using the same interface. And these versions would be multi-language (unicode) capable.

We tried that. Word 6. I'm sure that there are lots of folks here who have strong negative opinions about Word 6. They still come up to the MacBU booth at MWSF and complain about it.

Mac users have different expectations of their user interface. It starts with the menu bar across the top of the screen, and goes on from there. It's important for us to be a good Mac citizen, which means fitting in with the rest of the operating system. I wrote a long post about this to our team blog, which talks about why our user interface diverges from that of Windows Office. It's called evolution at work.

XML is not new. The Windows version had this planned for a few years already. Are you suggesting that the MBU was not purvey to this information?

We were well aware of the decision to move to the Office Open XML file format, and have been working with the WinOffice team all along to ensure that our needs were met in the new file formats since we support some things that they don't. However, knowing that it's coming doesn't mean that support for it codes itself. To ensure full compatibility with the new file formats, we had to wait until the WinOffice code was finalised before we could complete our testing. (This isn't to say that we had to wait to start it until they had finished, just that we couldn't be 100% sure that we'd covered everything until after they had finished.) File format compatibility is quite important to us.

BTW, why is their no Outlook for the Mac version of Office?

The Entourage Help Blog (written by the Entourage MVPs, so this isn't from Microsoft) has a great post that discusses exactly this: In the beginning. It links to another couple of their posts for the full history.

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[John-S]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2242898,00.asp

: (

 

[synth3tik]

Wow, in Office would have only come out um.......12 months ago I might not have switched to Neo-Office.

 

[sunfast]

If my workplace's home user programme has office 2008 when it's released I'll get it (got the last edition for £17) if only to have a universal app. I won't even look at it at normal money

 

[sushi]

Nadyne, first let me thank you for your response.

My comments are below.

We tried that. Word 6. I'm sure that there are lots of folks here who have strong negative opinions about Word 6. They still come up to the MacBU booth at MWSF and complain about it.

Yes, folks will always complain. That much is certain.

Mac users have different expectations of their user interface.

This is where we part paths.

IMHO, very few Mac users would use Mac Office by choice. Most use Mac Office because they have Windows Office at work and need the compatibility.

If the MBU truly wanted the best for Mac users, they would create a way to make the interface optional so the user could choose Windows Office or Mac Office interface.

As the Mac market increases, there will be an increasing need for the Mac Office to be compatible with the Windows Office.

File format compatibility is quite important to us.

That's nice to hear. But what is needed for the corporate folks are the same applications with Interface compatibility.

The Entourage Help Blog (written by the Entourage MVPs, so this isn't from Microsoft) has a great post that discusses exactly this: In the beginning. It links to another couple of their posts for the full history.

I am somewhat familiar with Claris Em@iler as I use it daily via Mac OS 9 or Classic mode.

The name bit about Entourage is bogus -- don't go there. Call it Outlook, plain and simple. And make it 100% compatible so that I can take my PST file from Windows Outlook and use it with Mac Outlook. After all, you have Word, Excel and PowerPoint sharing the names. So let's not go down that bogus road.

Obviously you have failed to see my point. Many times I get the feeling that Microsoft focuses on $ instead of the customer.

If I was king for a day , here is what I would do.

1. Create a completely cross platform version (Windows, Mac and *nix) of Office that have Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access and Outlook applications. Ensure that compatible means compatible. All video, picture, and audio files work with all versions regardless of platform.

2. Make all Office products unicode and multi-language enabled. No longer is the need to purchase a Japanese version of Office, or a German version. Just one version that supports all languages. Something like the Mac OS X install disc. So easy and simple for the user.

3. Make the file PST transportable so that you can carry your e-mail with you on an USB Thumb Drive, and use it on any host system (Windows, Mac or *nix OS) that has Outlook installed.

4. Keep in the back of your mind, an office with Windows, Macs, and *nix systems running side by side in an office environment.

5. Offer Office on one DVD that has all versions. That way a customer can purchase one DVD and are authorized to put it on one PC, one Mac and one *nix system. Oh, and get rid of your registration code.

6. Regarding the Office suite. Change the structure at Microsoft so that there is an Office Suite division that has three departments (Windows, Mac and *nix). This way everything is updated and released to the market at the same time.

I could go on, but hopefully you get my point. Time now is to think to the future and not the past. Right now the collective great minds of Microsoft have plenty of time to create a whole new Office suit that will be available in 5 years with all these features. And if need be, document/file type translators can be created as need be.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[jeffwingo]

Delayed shipping

I had pre-ordered Office Mac with the hopes of getting it when it released. I just got an e-mail from Microsoft saying it was not going to ship until January 28th. Now that may be just for the promotional upgrade product and full retail buyers could still get it around MacWorld, but our collective experience with Microsoft might tell us that we will be lucky to see it before April.

 

[Digitalclips]

Since I started using Pages I've never looked back. The only thing I'm awaiting is the ability to view and edit pages docs on my iphone.

I love Pages too, only snag I have hit is PC users unable to print anything I make. Those darn PCs need to start getting more compatible or no one will buy them.

I just started testing out Numbers in a serious way yesterday. It is obviously a version 1 application and will need a few tweaks by Apple but I have to say after an initial few hours scratching my head and reading Help screens I had a blast. Most of my problems were in 'thinking in Excel'. Once I got the Apple way of thinking it was easy.

I created from scratch a very complex project previously made in Excel (that took days) in an hour. The final fully integrated 13 sheet product's look and feel for users to work with this product is infinitely nicer too.

I just really need cell locking and the various protect levels (it does have some lock functions but limited) since this for others to use. Other than that I was totally blown away at the application. Give Numbers a few more upgrades and wow!

Are you listening Apple? Cell Locking please

 

[Digitalclips]

Microsoft has something like 91% market share. If anything, Microsoft needs Apple so that the Fed doesn't crack down tighter for being a Monopoly.

Besides MS wants to sell a lot of software to Apple users. That way they win either way. Also the MBU isn't purposely crippling anything. They really just don't have the resources to take on the task of moving VBA and other MS specific code to OSX UB.

Well the first paragraph illustrates a bit of a dilemma for them doesn't it

The obvious solution to the second paragraph's problem is to move the MS Mac development team from Seattle to Cupertino and hand over all the code they need to Apple (with a non compete disclosure of course). You know like Apple did with Word, Multi-plan and File back in 1983-84.