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First M2 Macs Expected to Launch Later This Year Using TSMC's 4nm Chip Process

cmaier said:
And you missed my point. M2 is going to have 4nm version of the performance cores from A15. So is A16. Same cores, on the same node.
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Reading the Mac Pro whitepaper, the whole reasoning for Mac Pro is "no limits". Cover the edge use cases completely.

The requirements seem to me, even more extreme processing power, higher memory limits (>1TB), greater peripheral expansion (PCI/Thunderbolt/MPX/?).

Take as few givens:
1. 3rd party GPU cards are off the table.
2. Unified memory programming model is here to stay (at least at the 128GB level)
3. No separate dies from the Pro/Max/Ultra model (given low volume).

If one were going to do a Mac Pro w/M1 Ultra, could they stack or add more addressable memory in a new package? would PCI expansion slots be workable?

If one were going to wait for the next process node, would it make more sense to do the next M2/3 Pro/Max/Ultra on N3 instead of N4?

What's the tradeoff in leading with an M-series chip on a new process instead of an A-Series? Would the low yields with a new process would be economically too costly with these larger dies? Too aggressive?

How big could chip packages get? 4 Max Chips? 8?
 
Force332 said:
I'm really confused about his comment about the iMac Pro as Apple stated pretty clearly that the Mac Pro is the only remaining Mac that needs to transition. Unless they have an Intel iMac Pro forthcoming? But that makes zero sense to me. In hindsight after this event, the iMac Pro seems like is was made as a stop gap until they were ready with their Pro level Apple silicon Macs. Perhaps what he might mean is that there is still a larger iMac in the works. I could see a scenario where when Apple refreshes the iMac with M2, they add a 27" option. Seems like that would be an easy way to increase the average selling price of the iMac. Maybe even offer an M2 Pro chip as an option in the larger iMac, I don't know. Regardless, a forthcoming iMac Pro seems extremely unlikely to me.
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If there's an iMac bigger than 24" coming at all with a M2 refresh (27-30"), you're probably right?

But, if the Mac Pro is the last Mac to make the transition to Apple Silicon, that may mean that there are no larger iMacs in the near future, even with the M2 refresh?

I'm thinking that it's possible that the new displays that are including Apple-Silicon, Thunderbolt, and Center Stage cameras, etc are potentially confusing the rumor mill?

So, perhaps the new Studio display was confused for a new 27" iMac at some point... So, it's possible that the rumored iMac Pro could very well be the Pro Studio Display that's rumored to be in development for release with the Mac Pro? I could see the Pro Studio display (Pro Motion, HDR, etc) including a M1 chip which could be contributing to the over-lapping rumors making it appear that a new iMac Pro anytime soon is remotely possible?

Curiouser and curiouser...
 
They can't put an Ultra chip in a Macbook because of thermals. And also there is no WAY they come out with a M2 for the MacBook this year. That would be so confusing to update it when its not needed.
 
Le0M said:
We'll go into the 0.xxx measurements.
Let's remember that we can always make a number (or dimension) smaller. There is no theoretical limit to it.
Now, as far as physical limit is concerned, I have no clue as to how far we can keep miniaturizing.
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A single silicon crystal is a cube with 0.543 nm long edges. Since a transistor requires a doped and undoped region, one would think that the transistor pitch couldn't be less than 2 * 0.543 nm = 1.086 nm. Maybe the height location of the transistors could be varied such that the doped regions wouldn't be adjacent with a single crystal (0.543 nm) pitch.
 
tekboi said:
Are we really getting an M2 chip? or are we getting an M1 Ultra Plus Pro??
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Don’t worry Gurman says ‘still in development’ … that tweet is as useless as ‘the sky is blue today, the sunset will happen soon’

Still in development = duh of course. What is being developed, aha.
Will M2 in some form of fashion debut = of course yes … in the future.

Save & invest for now … be ready whenever they drop expect a Gurman prediction in 2022 or first half of 2023.

: prognostication engine is off. ;)
 
Heat_Fan89 said:
So what happens when we reach 0nm? Does it then switch to -1nm or does the earth implode?
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If you are talking about the limits of Moore’s Law one possible option may be a move back to analog computers which have greater performance and energy efficiency than their digital counterparts. However analog computers are much more prone to noise and sensitive to parameter variances so likely they would be combined with digital computers to create a hybrid where the processing is done between alternating layers of analog and digital processing units.
 
If M2 is based on 4nm, as this rumours suggest , then it is A16 core and not A15 as some here have mentioned. You dont go and design A15 core on 4nm just for fun. Since A16 is based on 4nm as well M2 should be on A16 uArch.

Depending on when Intel release their Raptor Lake, it may also be the first to break the 2000 GB5 score. ( By Default and no overclocking )
 
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ksec said:
If M2 is based on 4nm, as this rumours suggest , then it is A16 core and not A15 as some here have mentioned. You dont go and design A15 core on 4nm just for fun.
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Why not? I’ve both ported CPUs to the next node (by re-doing the physical design), and created a physical design simultaneously for 2 nodes (that required only an automatic per-layer linear scaling of all dimensions). It’s pretty commonly done, and if you know ahead of time that you are going to do it, it doesn’t take any effort.
 
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jwdsail said:
If there's an iMac bigger than 24" coming at all with a M2 refresh (27-30"), you're probably right?

But, if the Mac Pro is the last Mac to make the transition to Apple Silicon, that may mean that there are no larger iMacs in the near future, even with the M2 refresh?

I'm thinking that it's possible that the new displays that are including Apple-Silicon, Thunderbolt, and Center Stage cameras, etc are potentially confusing the rumor mill?

So, perhaps the new Studio display was confused for a new 27" iMac at some point... So, it's possible that the rumored iMac Pro could very well be the Pro Studio Display that's rumored to be in development for release with the Mac Pro? I could see the Pro Studio display (Pro Motion, HDR, etc) including a M1 chip which could be contributing to the over-lapping rumors making it appear that a new iMac Pro anytime soon is remotely possible?

Curiouser and curiouser...
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iMac Pro is dead, iMac went back to its multi coloured roots.
Next large screen all in one will be iMac Studio. 27”, 120Hz, miniLED,
 
Yeah I can’t see the M2 coming this year now that we’ve just got the M1 ultra, the average Joe will automatically think M2 is better than M1 and cost Apple sales.

I could see the new Air gaining another M1 variant but no M2 yet.

M1 - IPad Pro, iMac & 13” MacBook Pro
M1 plus - MacBook Air & 27” iMac
M1 Pro/Max - MacBook Pro 14 & 16”
M1 ultra - Mac Studio & Mac Pro
 
It won't be that confusing. The mass consumer wants "latest and new". They'll be happy hearing M2 > M1.

The professional consumer is on a different cycle and won't care. They know what they're buying with the M1 Pro/Max/Ultra.

Also, it'll be the only way to get the ports/memory/cpu cores/gpu/storage levels they need.
 
BWhaler said:
Mark my words: M2 comes next year. Apple needs to capture as much value from M1 investment, doesn’t want to create waiting behavior for buyers across the line, and there is zero competitive need to ship M2 today.
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To capture as much value from M1 investment as possible, Apple should release M2 in 2032!
 
SmugMaverick said:
Yeah I can’t see the M2 coming this year now that we’ve just got the M1 ultra, the average Joe will automatically think M2 is better than M1 and cost Apple sales.
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Honestly, once the Average Joe sees an M2 Mac mini is $699 and an M1 Ultra Mac Studio is $2999, they're going to wonder why the Mac Studio is so much more expensive and they're not going to think it is just because it has twice as much aluminum in the case. :D

Also, Average Joes very likely are the ones who do not order online, but instead go into their local Apple Store / Apple Reseller and speak with a sales associate about which Mac is best for them. And I expect for 99.99999% of them, that is not going to be Mac Studio, regardless of the SoC in it. ;)
 
Lcgiv said:
The new angst process
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1647015652134.gif
 
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