Flash Is Not Ready For Phones.

[nightfly]

Judging from how apple do things, its not gonna be on iphone in a long time...

just take a look at their website, instead of using flash for things like animations, Apple do it via javascript..

to be honest i agree with apple on this one... flash is really2 bad and it breaks everything like accessibilty and any other web standards...

 

[sushi]

Personally, I could do without Flash.

I don't like it on websites I visit with my laptop and desktop computers and will ovoid it whenever possible. Can't imagine using it on a phone. Maybe I am old fashioned when it comes to web sites, but I prefer fast low bandwidth pages. Don't need fancy to get the information that I need or want. But that's just me.

 

[colmaclean]

Flash is gash!

Unfortunately a few years ago it was the favoured method of playing video for various websites (BBC, YouTube etc.) and it's still in use. BUT it's not a dedicated video player, and is bloated by a lot of cack that I'd never want. Apart from playing videos, I can think of only one application I'd want Flash for and that's launching penguins!

I was hoping HTML 5's spec, which includes a dedicated video tag, would sort this out. Then I read the following...

HTML 5 was initially said to become a game-changer in Web application development, making obsolete such plug-in-based rich Internet application (RIA) technologies as Adobe Flash, Microsoft Silverlight, and Sun JavaFX. Such applications would be made obsolete by specifying a standard video codec for all browsers to use. However, in July 2009, the editor of the burgeoning draft specification dropped the recommendation of the free software Theora and Vorbis codecs, after opposition from Apple and Nokia. This means HTML 5 does not currently specify a common video codec for Web development

So thanks, Apple! I guess they're pushing for Quicktime to become a global standard...

 

[mappyman]

Totally agree about the comments on flash, I was looking for some footwear the other day at www.nike.com and its all in flash and it's a right monstrosity of a website. It makes my PC with 6GB and i7 CPU @ 4 Ghz seem slow, wont be going back to it in a hurry.

 

[bruinsrme]

Totally agree about the comments on flash, I was looking for some footwear the other day at www.nike.com and its all in flash and it's a right monstrosity of a website. It makes my PC with 6GB and i7 CPU @ 4 Ghz seem slow, wont be going back to it in a hurry.

The US site is very quick

 

[skubish]

is that including me?

I have yet to say to myself "Man, I wish I had flash on my iPhone so I could load this website!" Usually I say "aww this crappy site uses flash. I guess I will load this much better site that is coded without flash instead!"

Please show me these must use flash sites.

 

[bruinsrme]

I have yet to say to myself "Man, I wish I had flash on my iPhone so I could load this website!" Usually I say "aww this crappy site uses flash. I guess I will load this much better site that is coded without flash instead!"

Please show me these must use flash sites.

www.nhl.com

 

[matttye]

Totally agree about the comments on flash, I was looking for some footwear the other day at www.nike.com and its all in flash and it's a right monstrosity of a website. It makes my PC with 6GB and i7 CPU @ 4 Ghz seem slow, wont be going back to it in a hurry.

Exaggeration of the week or what

My E8400 CPU (dual core) @ 3ghz with 4GB (3GB accessible) runs it fine!

 

[mkaake]

I dunno - those of us running slower (G4 based) macs have known this for a long time - Flash version 9/10 run like dogs. I'm lucky to get smooth video at youtube. If it's that taxing on a 1ghz G4 with dedicated graphics, I can't imagine that it will be a real treat on an iPhone or iPod touch (not to mention what it would do to the battery life).

I think Flash served a purpose (and still can, in limited quantities...), but we're actually really fortunate that devices like the iPhone and Netbooks are around - they've put renewed focus on good coding practices, and reducing size and required processing power again. We'd gotten into the cycle of fixing our speed problems with faster computers, when we really should have been fixing the code bloat... I really think it's this kind of thinking that drove apple to make snow leopard (and who knows - maybe they needed to trim back the OS to svelte levels before they could release their version of a netbook, because they wanted it to run smooth...).

So yeah - not to worried about getting flash on my iPod touch. There are some fun games programmed with it, but on a whole, it's overused. I look forward to the day when videos on web pages are shared via some codec rather than being hosted through flash (I remember when flash video first started showing up, and thinking we were taking a step backwards - I could play videos that are choppy in flash on a 1.0g4 smoothly on a sub 100mhz 604 processor in quicktime...).

 

[bruinsrme]

I agree...Let's not use current technology or old technology that is still being widely used and let's wait until the rest of the world changes their coding.

 

[Goona]

I agree...Let's not use current technology or old technology that is still being widely used and let's wait until the rest of the world changes their coding.

No what we're saying is they should continue developing flash until it is actually usable so that we don't have to go deal with its current implementation like show on the HTC Hero.

 

[John.B]

No what we're saying is they should continue developing flash until it is actually usable so that we don't have to go deal with its current implementation like show on the HTC Hero.

Exactly. I've said it before, what Adobe could do to make their case that the Flash experience is live-able on the iPhone would be to first make it live-able on OS X. Walk before you can run.

 

[bruinsrme]

I don't own a mac. The question I have is if a site like NHL.com or Nike.com is based on flash are mac users able to view the page?

 

[Etnies419]

I don't own a mac. The question I have is if a site like NHL.com or Nike.com is based on flash are mac users able to view the page?

Yeah, it works fine. Although I can see my CPU % go up as soon as I load the site.

 

[milani]

Hmmm... it's almost like everyone was right all along. Flash is a piss-poor standard and it shouldn't be on mobile devices (or, arguably, the internet at all).

I agree...Let's not use current technology or old technology that is still being widely used and let's wait until the rest of the world changes their coding.

Exactly!

 

[eastercat]

When flash is used sparingly, it can work nicely for a site. However, a number of sites use flash exclusively without giving an alternative site for others to view.
When it comes to implementation of flash, I'm willing to wait for an experience that isn't annoying or plagued by slow load times. Those feature checkers (who want something even though it's implemented poorly) can deal with the annoyance of the new google phone.

 

[John.B]

Yeah, it works fine. Although I can see my CPU % go up as soon as I load the site.

Exactly, plus the fans on my BlackBook shift into high speed.

Before I added FlashBlock to FF, I could tell if there was Flash somewhere on a webpage just by the sounds the fans would make when they spun up to top speed (on an laptop that is normally almost silent).

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

(I still wish they wouldn't allow those "Sexy Babes" apps)

Then don't download them? Why is it that people think their values should dictate what's available for other people who might be interested?

 

[Goona]

Flash performing horribly again:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/02/...-diamond2-and-flash-collide-on-vid/2#comments

 

[Maclver]

is it just me.. or after looking at the HTC UI im starting to feel the over all UI of the iPhone is a little plain.... Now... the OS is far stable on the iPhone that any other phone but I just we could use a small UI refresh!

 

[Simgar988]

is that including me?

Yes, for your own good

 

[Simgar988]

is it just me.. or after looking at the HTC UI im starting to feel the over all UI of the iPhone is a little plain.... Now... the OS is far stable on the iPhone that any other phone but I just we could use a small UI refresh!

I wasThinking the exact opposite. I hate how silly and overcrowded they make their screens. My mom has an htc touch and the interface is just obnoxious. I think by "plain" you realy mean "simple"

 

[kdarling]

A few thoughts:

1) Flash itself is not the problem... but the implementation sure can be. Adobe's supposedly working with the ARM cpu makers to add hardware support.

2) Funny memory: do you recall when Jobs showed off the National Geographic website, and it had a static image of a big cat in one section? And then it was discovered that the real NG website had a Flash menu there? So the iPhone should've shown a "download Flash" icon, but Apple had made a copy of the website and stuck in an image in place of the Flash?

3) For that matter, I'm pretty sure that the Apple website used Flash, or at least a bunch of QuickTime sections, until the iPhone came along.

I still recall the Jan '07 debut, when Jobs coyly avoided the Apple website in the iPhone's browser. (He was about to click it, but then offhandedly commented, "Oh you know what it looks like" and went someplace else. That was one of the very best car salesman pieces of handwaving and audience misdirection he's ever done.)

The reason he didn't go to the Apple website for another couple of months, was because he knew it would look awful on the iPhone, without QT or Flash and because of the huge usage of frames it had at the time, which would've made navigation a real pain.

They completely rewrote the Apple website in those months before the actual sales launch put the iPhone in consumers' hands.

 

[John.B]

A few thoughts:

1) Flash itself is not the problem... but the implementation sure can be. Adobe's supposedly working with the ARM cpu makers to add hardware support.

I've said this at least a hundred times, but the Flash fanbois never seem to "get" it.

If the implementation is the only problem, then make Flash run right on OS X first -- on Intel processors. And by "run right", I mean not approaching 100% CPU utilization. Then move on to more challenging hardware like the limited processor power of ARM CPUs.

To your last point, I run FlashBlock on both Firefox and Safari. I navigate Apple's site on a regular basis and never see the f or [Flash] placeholders anywhere on apple.com. If Apple can put together an entire multimedia website using web standards without any Flash, then it obviously can be done.

What Adobe is selling when they say that Flash is a defacto web standard is a world where web developers have to write separate non-Flash mobile versions of their websites for the handheld market (and obviously this includes more than just the iPhone). Remember that video acceleration already exists on the mobile handsets like the iPhone and Pre use. Adobe chooses not to leverage that because it doesn't trap developers into their proprietary platform.

In the interest of disclosure, I use a fair amount of Adobe software (Lr, Ps, Elements, etc.) because the final output of those programs is content anyone can use. I avoid Flash like the plague because it restricts who can see the content I create. And it runs like dog **** on OS X and mobile platforms. This whole "just wait until Adobe optimizes Flash for x" mantra has been going on for a while with no actual progress IRL. We used to call those kinds of empty promises vaporware.

 

[clevin]

its a beta anyway, flash lite wont be out until Oct. at which time, I will try on my Pre and let you know.

Not ready for phones? thats too broad, dont u think? OP is more like trying to pre-empt the envy that would come upon some people when flash becomes available for many other phones.

If you want an flash on iPhone, file a bug report and demand apple work with adobe. Other than that, generally making a broad claim that flash is dead before wide public arrival, is just pointless.