Flash photography help needed, please!

[Gloor]

Hello everyone,

I'm here to get some help as last night I tried to do it myself and got frustrated as it didn't work at all

My partner is pregnant and I wanted to do some nice full body portraits etc. I have a tripod with an umbrella (see pic) and the flash I used was Nikon SB700. My camera is D750 and lens is 85mm 1.8 (nightmare in this tiny room but manageable).

I have remote shutters so the Flash is in front of the umbrella and I've tried various positions but I didn't manage to take a decent picture. I've also noticed that high speed sync (shutter above 1/200 doesn't work with these remote triggers and only works when its hot shoed on the camera). We were doing it in the evening so no light from the window. To add salt to the injury, later my partner took some photos with my iPhone 14 Pro and those were 100x better than what I managed to pull off.

So, what I'm asking here is 2 things :

1) anyone has good tutorials or videos that would help my specific scenario (for placement and setting maybe)? I haven't done full body before - only in a professional studio with professional lights but those were also set up for me so it was super easy. I don't even know if the flash I have can do full body (with the umbrella I have). I find it way easier to setup for just face portraits etc. as you can cover what you need with one light fairly easy

2) I'm thinking to rent Z8 + 24-70 (much better lens for this space) and maybe 2 Profoto lights with soft domes. (any help which domes to use would be helpful also). Here you can rent it fairly cheap over the weekend and I wanted to test mirrorless for a long time so it could be a nice opportunity (and excuse). Originally I wanted to test Sony A7rv but I don't want to mess up with new system so I'll stick to Nikon for this test.

Those with experience - I would really appreciate help. Also, any person here based in Montreal?

 

[mollyc]

Why do you want to use HSS if you are shooting at night? HSS is for freezing motion, if you are just doing standard maternity portraits you can just shoot at your sync speed or lower. The flash itself will freeze motion in most instances unless you are shooting a super low shutter speed.

By remote shutters, do you mean triggers? With your SB700 you should be able to trigger the flash with the onboard flash on your camera set to a really low level (you can do this through the settings menu in your camera). The onboard flash will go off strong enough that the SB700 will see it and then flash also, but not strong enough to affect the exposure.

Do you have an example of a photo that you'd like to end up with? Are you comfortable posting one or two that you've taken already? It will be easier to help you if we see what your current results are.

The Strobist is a great resource for using your flash. While it's an archived site, I believe most of the tutorials are still available, he just isn't making new content.

The 24-70 will be easier to use in a small studio, but the D750 is plenty fine for a body, and in some ways a lot easier than using mirrorless with flash.

 

[mollyc]

I have an umbrella that I can use with a the SB900 but I typically use an Alien Bee and softboxes of some sort. I've never really done full length with an umbrella. However, I do have this one example that might help you. Some years I set my camera up on Christmas morning with the intervalometer and have it take photos for me so that I can be in photos also. This particular year I was taking a flash class and I am reasonably confident I was using the umbrella setup vs a softbox setup. The flash would have been a much smaller setup and I wouldn't have had to plug into anything, and I bought the umbrella specifically for this class. For some reason on one image the flash didn't fire, so you can see how much light was coming just from the flash. This would be different than what you are trying to do since there is also ambient light, but you can see from the non-flash image that the flash was really doing the majority of the lighting in this scenario.

So I think you can most likely get your umbrella to work for a full body portrait, but it's going to depend on what style of image you want to end up with. Also, buying a $35 large reflector would be helpful and cost effective for full body portraits.

 

[Gloor]

Thank you Molly for your response.
I was told that if you use high speed shutter speed then you reduce how far the light travels so you can keep the background dark/not visible. The lower the shutter speed the more the light will be bounced of the drop and i would have to edit it in post (is that correct?)

Yeah, I meant triggers. Never used the method you proposed so I'll look into it.

I'll try to get the failed attempts a bit later when im done at work.

Yeah, D750 is definitely plenty good but I was thinking that if I'm renting a lens I might as well test the mirrorless as it would be fun experiment.

Would you suggest I'll rent lights with soft domes? They are fairly cheap so might be easier to set it up?

I've attached some examples. On 3 of those you can see that the background is almost gone or gone completely. And then some opposite ones with the silhouette on the other.

Why do you want to use HSS if you are shooting at night? HSS is for freezing motion, if you are just doing standard maternity portraits you can just shoot at your sync speed or lower. The flash itself will freeze motion in most instances unless you are shooting a super low shutter speed.

By remote shutters, do you mean triggers? With your SB700 you should be able to trigger the flash with the onboard flash on your camera set to a really low level (you can do this through the settings menu in your camera). The onboard flash will go off strong enough that the SB700 will see it and then flash also, but not strong enough to affect the exposure.

Do you have an example of a photo that you'd like to end up with? Are you comfortable posting one or two that you've taken already? It will be easier to help you if we see what your current results are.

The Strobist is a great resource for using your flash. While it's an archived site, I believe most of the tutorials are still available, he just isn't making new content.

The 24-70 will be easier to use in a small studio, but the D750 is plenty fine for a body, and in some ways a lot easier than using mirrorless with flash.

 

[mollyc]

Well, yes, there is some truth to the shutter speed making the background darker, but it's more a factor of the inverse square law. The closer the light is to your subject the faster the background goes dark. If the light is close, it's probably going to be bright, which facilitates a higher shutter speed. With flash though, the background light is also dependent on your ISO, so the higher your ISO the brighter your background will be.

Here's a natural light example of the inverse square law. These were taken within a few minutes of each other from the same location. In the top image, you can see that I am close to the subject (therefore making the light seem closer) and the background is a dark gray. In the second image, the wall is much lighter. In reality, this wall is actually white, but the flowers were positioned in full sun, so super bright, and by metering for the highlights, I've affected the light fall off throughout the frame. The images were taken four minutes apart, so while the light might have changed slightly, it wasn't by a whole lot.

If you want a black background, I'd start off using a dark backdrop. You are going to make things much harder for yourself shooting in a small studio with a lighter toned backdrop. As my examples and the video I linked show, it is entirely possible to make a light background dark through lighting and subject placement only, but if you are looking to do full body images it's going to be much harder to get the background to go dark.

I am not sure what you mean by "soft domes." I've not heard that term as a modifer. If I had to guess, the fourth and fifth images are lit by a large softbox. The first one is possibly large umbrella based on the shape of the catchlights in the model's eyes, but I think it's more likely to be a beauty dish based on the quick fall of of the light; I think an umbrella would have a lot more background fill, especially since the light is straight on and harder to prevent reaching the backdrop.

This was lit with a beauty dish against a charcoal background. The light was just outside the frame camera right. Sometimes I have the light placed so closely I have to clone out part of the dish. I did darken the background in post but it was pretty dark to start with. I'd guess the first and third images are lit similar to mine below.

The second image most likely has the light on the background (possibly two lights) with the background acting as a bit of a reflector to light the model.

Before renting new gear, I'd experiment with what you have; just take practice shots and don't worry about even getting your partner into the maternity outfits, just have her sit on a stool and make it easy for both of you. One thing I'd suggest with your umbrella is to point it away from the background. On the image with my daughter above, the back edge of the light was probably in line with her face, or maybe even slightly in front of it. The light was not pointed towards the background at all, it was either fully perpendicular to the backdrop or slightly facing towards me. If you aren't adding light to the background, it will help keep it darker. In your setup that you showed in your OP, you have a lot of light being directed towards the backdrop itself. That's going to be harder to get the light fall off you want.

 

[Gloor]

Thank you so much, Molly,

Softdomes - I meant something like this : https://gosselinphoto.ca/en/profoto-rfi-softbox-5-octa-l-8843725

But yeah, its called softbox - I messed that up

I'll play with some things tonight and lets see what I can improve on. I'll also try to setup the trigger without the triggers so lets see if that works too

Well, yes, there is some truth to the shutter speed making the background darker, but it's more a factor of the inverse square law. The closer the light is to your subject the faster the background goes dark. If the light is close, it's probably going to be bright, which facilitates a higher shutter speed. With flash though, the background light is also dependent on your ISO, so the higher your ISO the brighter your background will be.

Here's a natural light example of the inverse square law. These were taken within a few minutes of each other from the same location. In the top image, you can see that I am close to the subject (therefore making the light seem closer) and the background is a dark gray. In the second image, the wall is much lighter. In reality, this wall is actually white, but the flowers were positioned in full sun, so super bright, and by metering for the highlights, I've affected the light fall off throughout the frame. The images were taken four minutes apart, so while the light might have changed slightly, it wasn't by a whole lot.


View attachment 2542922

If you want a black background, I'd start off using a dark backdrop. You are going to make things much harder for yourself shooting in a small studio with a lighter toned backdrop. As my examples and the video I linked show, it is entirely possible to make a light background dark through lighting and subject placement only, but if you are looking to do full body images it's going to be much harder to get the background to go dark.

I am not sure what you mean by "soft domes." I've not heard that term as a modifer. If I had to guess, the fourth and fifth images are lit by a large softbox. The first one is possibly large umbrella based on the shape of the catchlights in the model's eyes, but I think it's more likely to be a beauty dish based on the quick fall of of the light; I think an umbrella would have a lot more background fill, especially since the light is straight on and harder to prevent reaching the backdrop.

This was lit with a beauty dish against a charcoal background. The light was just outside the frame camera right. Sometimes I have the light placed so closely I have to clone out part of the dish. I did darken the background in post but it was pretty dark to start with. I'd guess the first and third images are lit similar to mine below.

View attachment 2542938

The second image most likely has the light on the background (possibly two lights) with the background acting as a bit of a reflector to light the model.

Before renting new gear, I'd experiment with what you have; just take practice shots and don't worry about even getting your partner into the maternity outfits, just have her sit on a stool and make it easy for both of you. One thing I'd suggest with your umbrella is to point it away from the background. On the image with my daughter above, the back edge of the light was probably in line with her face, or maybe even slightly in front of it. The light was not pointed towards the background at all, it was either fully perpendicular to the backdrop or slightly facing towards me. If you aren't adding light to the background, it will help keep it darker. In your setup that you showed in your OP, you have a lot of light being directed towards the backdrop itself. That's going to be harder to get the light fall off you want.

 

[mollyc]

Thank you so much, Molly,

Softdomes - I meant something like this : https://gosselinphoto.ca/en/profoto-rfi-softbox-5-octa-l-8843725

But yeah, its called softbox - I messed that up

I'll play with some things tonight and lets see what I can improve on. I'll also try to setup the trigger without the triggers so lets see if that works too

Oh, yes, an octobox would totally work for you. Of the setups you showed, only the white background one would require two lights. The black drop ones are all a single light source. You wouldn't need to buy or rent two soft/octaboxes. Since you already own a flash, for the white background you can just use it and then whatever other light you end up getting. There might be a slight mismatch in color when lighting it, but it would be easy enough to fix in post.

 

[Gloor]

Do you know which size would I need to pick up and is the SB700 enough to light the softbox or better to rent a light with it?

Oh, yes, an octobox would totally work for you. Of the setups you showed, only the white background one would require two lights. The black drop ones are all a single light source. You wouldn't need to buy or rent two soft/octaboxes. Since you already own a flash, for the white background you can just use it and then whatever other light you end up getting. There might be a slight mismatch in color when lighting it, but it would be easy enough to fix in post.

 

[mollyc]

Do you know which size would I need to pick up and is the SB700 enough to light the softbox or better to rent a light with it?

I don't know the answer to that, I'm sorry. I would talk to the rental agency and ask them how you mount the octabox with your flash; sometimes those things require proprietary hardware. The beauty dish I use is pretty small, I think it's only 22". I'd say you probably want something around 4'. I think the 5' one you have picked out might be too large for the look you are going for.

I'd see if you can start a chat with someone and send them the sample photos you have and see what they suggest. 🙂

 

[richardallan]

I used to take a lot of photos in a small home studio setup like this. I had a cheap flash meter which gave me a good starting point. I used my old slide projector screen as a reflector. Two things I would change about your setup - You will get much better lighting by turning your umbrella around and bouncing the light off it rather than firing the flash through it. Next, throw a party for your backdrop and invite an iron along.

 

[Gloor]

Thank you.

You mean away from the model? Should I use the silver umbrella then as its more reflective? (yeah, I will iron it too, this was just to test things )

I used to take a lot of photos in a small home studio setup like this. I had a cheap flash meter which gave me a good starting point. I used my old slide projector screen as a reflector. Two things I would change about your setup - You will get much better lighting by turning your umbrella around and bouncing the light off it rather than firing the flash through it. Next, throw a party for your backdrop and invite an iron along.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So I’m no flash photographer, but I’ve had quite a bit of training in them through work.
My advice on soft boxes or umbrellas is go as big as you can. They want to be the size of what you intend to shoot as a minimum.
Buying one with an egg crate gives you alternative options.

As for practising I’d take it a step further than @mollyc suggests. Ditch your partner completely. Use a substitute (like a dressmaker’s dummy or wig stand) to practice with. Their patience is infinitely better than your partner’s (in my experience!). YMMV.

 

[Gloor]

heeheh, yeah i already have a head with hear (just don't have the body which in this situation proved to be a problematic )

So I’m no flash photographer, but I’ve had quite a bit of training in them through work.
My advice on soft boxes or umbrellas is go as big as you can. They want to be the size of what you intend to shoot as a minimum.
Buying one with an egg crate gives you alternative options.

As for practising I’d take it a step further than @mollyc suggests. Ditch your partner completely. Use a substitute (like a dressmaker’s dummy or wig stand) to practice with. Their patience is infinitely better than your partner’s (in my experience!). YMMV.

 

[richardallan]

Thank you.

You mean away from the model? Should I use the silver umbrella then as its more reflective? (yeah, I will iron it too, this was just to test things )

Yes. I would try the silver umbrella as well but it will give you much harsher light.