Flashing Folder with Question Mark

[Ambrosia7177]

Over the last week I have been learning how to set up a firmware password, turn on full-disk encryption and create a CCC clone.

I also learned how to boot to my clone using Option boot.

The last couple of times I did Apple > Shut Down my screen went almost dark, but I could still see my mouse pointer and move it. It was almost as if I dimmed my screen but didn't shut down.

Now when I booted up - without my clone plugged in - I see a flashing folder with a question mark.

This is on a brand new Retina running Sierra.

If my SSD is bad or my OS is corrupt I am going to be furious!

If I reboot holding down the "Option" key - again with nothing plugged in - I get my startup disk. If I click on that, then I get the log in screen and I am in my Mac.

I looked in System Preferences and my internal drive is listed as the startup disk.

What happened to my brand new Mac?

 

[DeltaMac]

Reset NVRAM:
Reboot, holding Option-Command-p-r
You should hear a boot chime, continue to hold the same 4 keys to hear the boot chime two more times, then release the keys to allow a normal boot. (If you new Mac does not have a boot chime, just hold the 4 keys on a restart for about 30 seconds, then release the keys.)
You might see a flashing folder briefly, as the NVRAM reset also de-selects the selected startup disk.
When you get booted up, set your boot drive in the Startup Disk pref pane (you have to unlock that pane to do this )

If your system does not allow you to boot without going through the Option boot screen, try selecting the Startup Disk again.
If you then still can't boot without going through the Option-boot screen - then something has likely has "un-blessed" the boot drive. I think that there is a bless command in the terminal. You might get some results by looking through the man for the bless command.
But - I would simply reinstall the macOS system. This is a good time to try out a bootable flash drive with the macOS installer

I should point out that I have a habit of erasing the boot drive, as a first step in the setup of a brand-new Mac, and reinstalling macOS, just on the chance that there is some glitch in the factory-installed setup. Not everyone has the same weird ideas that I have, and I respect that I DO want to be sure the drive is working at that point.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Reset NVRAM:
Reboot, holding Option-Command-p-r
You should hear a boot chime, continue to hold the same 4 keys to hear the boot chime two more times, then release the keys to allow a normal boot. (If you new Mac does not have a boot chime, just hold the 4 keys on a restart for about 30 seconds, then release the keys.)
You might see a flashing folder briefly, as the NVRAM reset also de-selects the selected startup disk.
When you get booted up, set your boot drive in the Startup Disk pref pane (you have to unlock that pane to do this )

If your system does not allow you to boot without going through the Option boot screen, try selecting the Startup Disk again.
If you then still can't boot without going through the Option-boot screen - then something has likely has "un-blessed" the boot drive. I think that there is a bless command in the terminal. You might get some results by looking through the man for the bless command.
But - I would simply reinstall the macOS system. This is a good time to try out a bootable flash drive with the macOS installer

I should point out that I have a habit of erasing the boot drive, as a first step in the setup of a brand-new Mac, and reinstalling macOS, just on the chance that there is some glitch in the factory-installed setup. Not everyone has the same weird ideas that I have, and I respect that I DO want to be sure the drive is working at that point.

I have just spent the last month carefully setting up my new Mac...

What are the chances that it is damaged or really screwed up?

This is very upsetting considering I was just about done setting it up.

I do have a CCC clone, but what if the problem I have now also exists on my clone?

Then I would have to start from scratch and that would throw away all of my work...

Also, could doing the NVRAM reset make things worse?

When I Option-boot I get my firmware screen and then I log in and there are no issues. But obviously the startup disk - while there in Sys Pref - isn't kicking in?!

 

[DeltaMac]

Do you have something damaged? not too likely (other than a minor software problem... )
Screwed up? Maybe the "boot blocks" in some minor way that bypasses the normal automatic boot. The NVRAM reset plus resetting the Startup Disk might take care of that. Also a simple reinstall of macOS would take care of that - assuming that the hardware is working properly.
The CCC clone is not likely to have a "boot blocks" problem (which is a minor issue by itself, anyway )

Let me say this more clearly:
If you get only a flashing folder, even if you wait that out for several minutes, but it boots properly after selecting your boot drive in the Option-boot screen, then the FIRST thing to try is setting the Startup Disk.
Then, NVRAM reset. (If your hardware is actually failing, you can boot to Diagnostics, just for a quick test) The NVRAM reset will NOT make things worse - unless things ARE already worse, such as a failing drive.
And, then the third thing to try is a simple macOS install. The easiest, and quickest method is to use a bootable flash drive that you have already prepared with your macOS installer. If you don't have one, then you can do a reinstall from your recovery system. This will NOT require you to start from scratch, nor affect the apps and files that you already have on your drive. This reinstall is similar to a "repair install" that you might do on a Windows system, and simply reloads your system. It is your quickest method to repair the booting issue that you have. Should only take about 1/2 hour for the reload. Start the reinstall, and let it go.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Do you have something damaged? not too likely (other than a minor software problem... )
Screwed up? Maybe the "boot blocks" in some minor way that bypasses the normal automatic boot. The NVRAM reset plus resetting the Startup Disk might take care of that. Also a simple reinstall of macOS would take care of that - assuming that the hardware is working properly.
The CCC clone is not likely to have a "boot blocks" problem (which is a minor issue by itself, anyway )

Let me say this more clearly:
If you get only a flashing folder, even if you wait that out for several minutes, but it boots properly after selecting your boot drive in the Option-boot screen, then the FIRST thing to try is setting the Startup Disk.
Then, NVRAM reset. (If your hardware is actually failing, you can boot to Diagnostics, just for a quick test) The NVRAM reset will NOT make things worse - unless things ARE already worse, such as a failing drive.
And, then the third thing to try is a simple macOS install. The easiest, and quickest method is to use a bootable flash drive that you have already prepared with your macOS installer. If you don't have one, then you can do a reinstall from your recovery system. This will NOT require you to start from scratch, nor affect the apps and files that you already have on your drive. This reinstall is similar to a "repair install" that you might do on a Windows system, and simply reloads your system. It is your quickest method to repair the booting issue that you have. Should only take about 1/2 hour for the reload. Start the reinstall, and let it go.

This was such a good response, I read it twice. Having physical copies of the OS is crucial!

 

[vkd]

Also, could doing the NVRAM reset make things worse?

No it will not harm anything whatsoever. Just do it. You can reset SMC too by rebooting and holding down Command+Option+Shift. Also harmless.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Reset NVRAM:
Reboot, holding Option-Command-p-r
You should hear a boot chime, continue to hold the same 4 keys to hear the boot chime two more times, then release the keys to allow a normal boot. (If you new Mac does not have a boot chime, just hold the 4 keys on a restart for about 30 seconds, then release the keys.)
You might see a flashing folder briefly, as the NVRAM reset also de-selects the selected startup disk.
When you get booted up, set your boot drive in the Startup Disk pref pane (you have to unlock that pane to do this )

I have a firmware password set, so your advice above doesn't seem to work, although I'm familiar with how to do it.

If your system does not allow you to boot without going through the Option boot screen, try selecting the Startup Disk again.

I misunderstood how that worked last night. Thought I had to delete the Startup Disk and then add it back.

A little while ago I do an Option-boot, entered my firmware password, then went to System Preferences and clicked on my existing Startup Disk which was my internal hard-drive, and then I clicked "Starup" in that window and not it seems like things are working.

Not sure how that exactly works, but it looks like it helped.

And per what you said in your next post, I first did another clone of my Retina just in case things blew up!

I should point out that I have a habit of erasing the boot drive, as a first step in the setup of a brand-new Mac, and reinstalling macOS, just on the chance that there is some glitch in the factory-installed setup. Not everyone has the same weird ideas that I have, and I respect that I DO want to be sure the drive is working at that point.

Interesting.

 

[DeltaMac]

Thought I should mention that if you have a firmware password set, then you can do the NVRAM reset too, as trying that will ask for your EFI (firmware) password before it will allow that reset.
Or, in the event the reset does not ask for your password (not quite sure on that), then turning off the firmware password temporarily would be your answer, then re-enable after you complete that task.
Anyway, if you are now working after getting the startup disk properly set, that may be all you need right now.

Just my opinion - the EFI (firmware) password is possibly good in a business/school environment, but can be a bad choice in the home. Not a security enhancement, per se; but helps prevent unwanted boots to other boot choices.
Hopefully, you will not ever experience what happens if you forget the firmware password, or get rid of your Mac without removing that firmware lock first.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Thought I should mention that if you have a firmware password set, then you can do the NVRAM reset too, as trying that will ask for your EFI (firmware) password before it will allow that reset.
Or, in the event the reset does not ask for your password (not quite sure on that), then turning off the firmware password temporarily would be your answer, then re-enable after you complete that task.
Anyway, if you are now working after getting the startup disk properly set, that may be all you need right now.

That is how I would have tried it. (Maybe I'll try it tonight if I have time.)

Just my opinion - the EFI (firmware) password is possibly good in a business/school environment, but can be a bad choice in the home. Not a security enhancement, per se; but helps prevent unwanted boots to other boot choices.
Hopefully, you will not ever experience what happens if you forget the firmware password, or get rid of your Mac without removing that firmware lock first.

A firmware password prevents someone else from plugging in an external drive and trying to boot up to it.

That does protect me more!

A firmware password also prevents someone from bypassing my system password and then getting into my computer.

That is the biggest reason everyone should have one in place!

A firmware password also prevents someone from wiping my drive clean.

It's such an easy thing to do, I cannot see why someone wouldn't want to do it.
[doublepost=1515091301][/doublepost]

No it will not harm anything whatsoever. Just do it. You can reset SMC too by rebooting and holding down Command+Option+Shift. Also harmless.

@vkd

What is SMC?

 

[DeltaMac]

...
What is SMC?

System Management Controller (SMC) is your OTHER common hardware reset on a Mac.
Typically, it is one that resets your power functions (fan controller, some video functions, sleep, etc
@vkd was incorrect with the key combo, however. It depends on the Mac model, but is usually Shift-Control-Option, and the power button. More here ...

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I agree with @Mr_Brightside_@...

Does anyone at MacRumors save good tidbits like this?

Let me say this more clearly:
If you get only a flashing folder, even if you wait that out for several minutes, but it boots properly after selecting your boot drive in the Option-boot screen, then the FIRST thing to try is setting the Startup Disk.

Then, NVRAM reset. (If your hardware is actually failing, you can boot to Diagnostics, just for a quick test) The NVRAM reset will NOT make things worse - unless things ARE already worse, such as a failing drive.

Good to know!

And, then the third thing to try is a simple macOS install. The easiest, and quickest method is to use a bootable flash drive that you have already prepared with your macOS installer. If you don't have one, then you can do a reinstall from your recovery system. This will NOT require you to start from scratch, nor affect the apps and files that you already have on your drive. This reinstall is similar to a "repair install" that you might do on a Windows system, and simply reloads your system. It is your quickest method to repair the booting issue that you have. Should only take about 1/2 hour for the reload. Start the reinstall, and let it go.

You're telling me that if I had created a Sierra installer, and booted to it and re-installed Sierra, that all of my Application and Data files would be left alone?!

If you re-installed another OS (e.g. Windows), I am 99% certain that would be like formatting your hard-drive!!

Assuming that to be the case, that is why I was so mad last night!

BTW, what about opening up Disk Utility and running "First Aid"?

What does that do?

And what about the "Restore" button in Disk Utility?

What does that do?

(I'm looking off my old MBP with Mountain Lion, since I am not in front of my Retina now. maybe the options are different in Sierra?)

 

[Weaselboy]

If I am following what you did here, the system worked exactly as it should with a firmware password set because that prevents you from changing the startup disk. So you had it set to the external, then removed that. Ordinarily the system would just search around for other bootable drives, find the internal, and off you go. But having a firmware password enabled prevents it from doing that.

Then once you entered the firmware password, and got logged back in and set it to boot to the internal, all was well.

Does that sound like what happened?

 

[DeltaMac]

...
You're telling me that if I had created a Sierra installer, and booted to it and re-installed Sierra, that all of my Application and Data files would be left alone?!
Yes, that is what you would expect with a simple reinstall of macOS. It reloads your system files, but does not affect what YOU have in place... usually...

If you re-installed another OS (e.g. Windows), I am 99% certain that would be like formatting your hard-drive!!
Depends on what system you are installing, and how. If Windows was already installed, and you reinstalled Windows, you would have the choice of doing what MS calls a repair install, which does NOT involve erasing, it simply reloads the system. Whether that reload is successful, or not, depends on the situation.
Assuming that to be the case, that is why I was so mad last night!

BTW, what about opening up Disk Utility and running "First Aid"?

What does that do?
First Aid does a quick check of the file system on your drive, and can repair some kinds of directory errors, or will at least report that it found problems, and gives you a clue about how to proceed with other repairs.
And what about the "Restore" button in Disk Utility?

What does that do?
The restore function in Disk Utility has capability for restoring a disk image to a disk. You can search in your Mac's help for a little more information on how to use that function.

(I'm looking off my old MBP with Mountain Lion, since I am not in front of my Retina now. maybe the options are different in Sierra?)
Yes, Disk Utility is quite different between Mountain Lion and Sierra. Different options, and I think most here would say there is a loss of functionality in Disk Utility after El Capitan. The partition process is much less user-friendly now, for example, in my opinion.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

If I am following what you did here, the system worked exactly as it should with a firmware password set because that prevents you from changing the startup disk. So you had it set to the external, then removed that. Ordinarily the system would just search around for other bootable drives, find the internal, and off you go. But having a firmware password enabled prevents it from doing that.

Then once you entered the firmware password, and got logged back in and set it to boot to the internal, all was well.

Does that sound like what happened?

Having I been playing around lots with my new Retina? Yes! (Learning lots of new tricks thanks to everyone here!)

Yes, I have a firmware password set. But, no, I never pointed my Mac to my clone.

And when I got the flashing folder and question mark, that happened before I got the firmware login screen.

I have been Option-booting a lot the last week as I have been setting up CCC and cloning my Mac and then testing my clone. But my Startup disk has always been my mac's internal drive.

And when the problem started last night, I did a hard shut-down, and then I Option-booted and then looked in System Preferences at the Startup Disk and it was still my internal drive.

That is when I posted here.

I went in this morning and simply clicked on my internal drive - even though it was already displays as the Startup Disk - and then I clicked on the "Restart" button next to it, and after a reboot, things started working again.

The best I can figure out what happened is that I have noticed a couple of times in the last few days where I did Apple > Shut Down and my screen got dim like it was shut off, but there was still a "glow". And I could see my mouse pointer. Not knowing how to shut down any other way, I did a hard shut down.

I had to do that maybe 3 times this week.

Maybe there was an OS issue causing that, or my hard shut down created an issue?

I just hope that this was an anomaly and that I don't have any more issues, because I have spent weeks setting up my not so new Retina and the goal of finally migrating for my 2011 MBP is to eliminate issues, not have more!

 

[DeltaMac]

Forcing a shutdown should not become your normal shutdown procedure.
You might see longer shutdowns (the lingering mouse pointer, and the screen still lit up are also not normal, but might be there during a slow shutdown) --- be patient, let your Mac shut itself off, as that is the best way to treat the drive directory. You always run some risk of minor (or major) file corruption any time you force a system off.
-- Try to be patient when you notice a slow shutdown, walk away for a few minutes, I bet it is off when you return!
I do run out of patience, particularly if I have something else more important than waiting for a Mac shut itself, like restarting to Windows (when did THAT become important, I said to myself?)
So, yes, I see the slow shutdown - rarely. It's some glitchy part of system file caches, I'm guessing. 95% of the time, shutdown is quite fast (noticed faster shutdowns on more recent High Sierra betas, so things are looking better with HSierra, IMHO.)

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Forcing a shutdown should not become your normal shutdown procedure.
You might see longer shutdowns (the lingering mouse pointer, and the screen still lit up are also not normal, but might be there during a slow shutdown) --- be patient, let your Mac shut itself off, as that is the best way to treat the drive directory. You always run some risk of minor (or major) file corruption any time you force a system off.
-- Try to be patient when you notice a slow shutdown, walk away for a few minutes, I bet it is off when you return!
I do run out of patience, particularly if I have something else more important than waiting for a Mac shut itself, like restarting to Windows (when did THAT become important, I said to myself?)
So, yes, I see the slow shutdown - rarely. It's some glitchy part of system file caches, I'm guessing. 95% of the time, shutdown is quite fast (noticed faster shutdowns on more recent High Sierra betas, so things are looking better with HSierra, IMHO.)

I wasn't being "impatient", I just thought it was hung up and that a hard shutdown was my only option.

Now I know better!

Normally start ups and shut downs are quicker now that I have a SSD.

Do you think I may have permanently screwed something up, or now that I got rid of that flashing folder should my Retina be back to normal?

 

[DeltaMac]

...
Do you think I may have permanently screwed something up,
NO

or now that I got rid of that flashing folder should my Retina be back to normal?
Yes

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Whew!

 

[YassRebel]

Hello everyone. I don't want to posting "another" question about this same issue, so I'm going to hijack this post.

Does it matter if a non-apple keyboard is used when booting up an iMac while holding Cmd R? I ask because at some point I changed the start up disk to an external one, I got the Question Mark folder and now I can't get pass through it. Holding Cmd R doesn't work for me, so I'm wondering if the non-apple keyboard might have something to do with it?

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Try ctrl or opt or Windows keys

 

[YassRebel]

Try ctrl or opt or Windows keys

I use Windows icon key for Cmd, and Alt key for Option.

Now, if I boot up pressing Alt (equivalent of Option) it loads a screen asking for a password, which I have no clue what it is. Because this is an older model of iMac I inserted a Mountain Lion installation DVD and it doesn't do anything, not even ejecting the DVD.

I tried the Cmd Option R P combination and it just loads the Question Mark folder. Which is why I was curious to whether it made a difference using a non-apple keyboard or not, since the only thing that seems to work is booting up with Option (which brings me to that password screen I mentioned).

 

[DeltaMac]

If your keyboard has a Windows symbol on the 2nd key left of the space bar, then a boot to your recovery system (Command-r) SHOULD be Alt-r, not Windows Key-r.
That's the reverse of what you might expect, but should be correct during boot up only. After the system loads, it will change to whatever the software is set up for --- and the keys would then revert to software defaults, which may not be the same as the markings on the keycaps.
Keep in mind that not every windows or generic keyboard provides boot key support (and may not be recognized by the Mac hardware). Be sure to try a different keyboard, which might be another Windows keyboard. Some examples may simply not work to boot your iMac.
If that does not work, then we need to know which iMac you have. If it is running something older than OS X 10.7, then command-r doesn't work (the OS X system is too old, and does not have a recovery partition.)

An older iMac - those with the white plastic cases - don't support anything past OS X 10.7.5, and the first 2006 iMacs have no support beyond Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6.8). The first iMacs that support anything like Mountain Lion are the oldest aluminum iMacs from mid 2007.

Anyway - try a different, wired USB keyboard. A generic keyboard can be hit or miss for booting a Mac.