FlickType Pulling iPhone Keyboard App After Continued Rejection Issues

[bwillwall]

There is regulation and certification processes that exist around electrical devices however that generally require electrical devices to meet certain restrictions. An electrical device generally can't interfere with the operation of the grid as a whole and cannot breach emissions standards. It's imposed by various branches of the government to limit what is sold in the marketplace. You can of course build your own electrical devices and hook it up to the grid not dissimilar to using your own developer certificates to side load apps onto a phone.

You say a smartphone is an essential device again but you don't define it again. If the criteria is that it is a computer, a camera and millions use to exist in the modern world, then my laptop is an essential device as well.

However there is choice in the market. If you don't agree with Apple's limits, then there exists on the market alternative mobile operating systems that are completely open. If you don't like Apple's choices then there is the option to choose another ecosystem. The essential facility doctrine relies upon there being no other option, not that there is an alternative option that is either comparable in size (50% in the US) to being significantly larger in scale (Android globally is at 75% last I looked?).

If I don't like what the manufacturer does with their device, I have options in the market to buy an alternative. Either enough people will move to the alternative that embraces these concepts and then has to choose to live with lesser marketshare or attempt to make their product more enticing. Given that iOS marketshare has slowly risen over the years, arguably the market agrees with what choices Apple has made.

Computers are indeed essential devices in my opinion. I mean, that shouldn't be unreasonable considering our entire economy revolves around PCs and smartphones.

 

[pasamio]

I didn't elevate a smartphone to the level of food or water. I elevated it to electricity. It's not essential to live. It's essential to exist in 1st or even 2nd world society.

There are not endless options of smartphones. Sorry there's two operating systems you can reasonably use. Yeah I know Android is open source, but if you don't use Google services you're SOL too. They have a duopoly.

Many who found themselves without electricity in Texas during it's severe weather event found the lack of it impeding on their ability to live. I feel a smartphone is in a category above electricity.

You raise an important point: Google created a monopoly out of the OEM operating system market. Remember when the iPhone launched? The top dog was Nokia with their Symbian OS, Microsoft had a good chunk of smartphones too with Windows Mobile and RIM had Blackberry OS in the enterprise space as well. There were also Linux platforms like OpenMoko and Maemo which fell to Google's Android. All of this diversity was wiped away by Android. Google have over the years enacted a bait and switch where they put an increasing amount of what people associate with Android in Google Mobile Services which requires payments from OEMs to ship. As Android wiped out the OS market it also enabled the rise of the cheap Chinese smartphones that increasingly dominate the world as well. Google successfully undercut the market, established a monopoly in the smartphone operating system market and used that monopoly to try to boost their other platforms.

And the solution to Google having monopoly over the smartphone operating system market is to regulate and hinder it's only competitor in the space. The company who doesn't make it's profit solely on your data but instead makes it on device sales, services and yes, app sales...so let's make that harder for them?

I'm disappointed Microsoft gave up so early on Windows Phone. They clearly weren't willing for it to be a loss leader for the time they'd need to have it grow. They weren't willing to let it grow slowly over time after losing so much of their marketshare. Microsoft didn't have the patience that Apple did.

Computers are indeed essential devices in my opinion. I mean, that shouldn't be unreasonable considering our entire economy revolves around PCs and smartphones.

The question I keep posing is what is the definition of an essential device. You're now saying computers are an essential device, you started with smartphones being essential and game console being not essential but consider that in the US that many lower income Americans are less likely to have a smartphone or computer:

Roughly a quarter of adults with household incomes below $30,000 a year (24%) say they don’t own a smartphone. About four-in-ten adults with lower incomes do not have home broadband services (43%) or a desktop or laptop computer (41%).

How many of those people do you think don't have electricity?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I elevated it to electricity. It's not essential to live. It's essential to exist in 1st or even 2nd world society.

We’ll, put on enough qualifiers and ANYthing can be deemed “essential”. An electron microscope is essential to an electron microscopist.

Computers are indeed essential devices in my opinion. I mean, that shouldn't be unreasonable considering our entire economy revolves around PCs and smartphones.

Because it’s your opinion, you’re free to have it. And, for some affluent subset of people that have all their truly basic needs easily met, I can see how they would agree.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

There are not endless options of smartphones. Sorry there's two operating systems you can reasonably use. Yeah I know Android is open source, but if you don't use Google services you're SOL too. They have a duopoly.

Even if one accepts that smartphones are “essential” (I don’t) a duopoly doesn’t make an iPhone “essential”. A duopoly means that you can buy a NOT-iPhone and have your essential needs met. UNLESS… well, I guess we could toss on another qualifier and say that smartphones WITH APPLE LOGOS are essential. I mean, we’re already into the absurd notion that a smartphone is essential, let’s keep running with that

 

[bwillwall]

Many who found themselves without electricity in Texas during it's severe weather event found the lack of it impeding on their ability to live. I feel a smartphone is in a category above electricity.

You raise an important point: Google created a monopoly out of the OEM operating system market. Remember when the iPhone launched? The top dog was Nokia with their Symbian OS, Microsoft had a good chunk of smartphones too with Windows Mobile and RIM had Blackberry OS in the enterprise space as well. There were also Linux platforms like OpenMoko and Maemo which fell to Google's Android. All of this diversity was wiped away by Android. Google have over the years enacted a bait and switch where they put an increasing amount of what people associate with Android in Google Mobile Services which requires payments from OEMs to ship. As Android wiped out the OS market it also enabled the rise of the cheap Chinese smartphones that increasingly dominate the world as well. Google successfully undercut the market, established a monopoly in the smartphone operating system market and used that monopoly to try to boost their other platforms.

And the solution to Google having monopoly over the smartphone operating system market is to regulate and hinder it's only competitor in the space. The company who doesn't make it's profit solely on your data but instead makes it on device sales, services and yes, app sales...so let's make that harder for them?

I'm disappointed Microsoft gave up so early on Windows Phone. They clearly weren't willing for it to be a loss leader for the time they'd need to have it grow. They weren't willing to let it grow slowly over time after losing so much of their marketshare. Microsoft didn't have the patience that Apple did.



The question I keep posing is what is the definition of an essential device. You're now saying computers are an essential device, you started with smartphones being essential and game console being not essential but consider that in the US that many lower income Americans are less likely to have a smartphone or computer:



How many of those people do you think don't have electricity?

Half the world is a slave to a dictator. Essential to live is open to interpretation. It’s really convenient if you to, just like many apple fans, explain away apples part in the smartphone duopoly by saying they don’t sell data but that’s irrelevant. Sure they might not profit from your data directly but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t change that in a day if they felt like it. And that’s not the issue. The issue here is their monopoly on HOW a phone is used and what software is even allowed on it. So as you’ve confirmed here the duopoly gives two choices. Use apples whitelist of apps and play by their very strict rules, or have all your data stolen but be allowed to own your device. This is unacceptable on both sides.

 

[bwillwall]

Even if one accepts that smartphones are “essential” (I don’t) a duopoly doesn’t make an iPhone “essential”. A duopoly means that you can buy a NOT-iPhone and have your essential needs met. UNLESS… well, I guess we could toss on another qualifier and say that smartphones WITH APPLE LOGOS are essential. I mean, we’re already into the absurd notion that a smartphone is essential, let’s keep running with that

So stop using a smartphone. You don’t need it.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So stop using a smartphone. You don’t need it.

I don’t NEED electricity. I don’t NEED a car. I don’t NEED a smartphone. I have a choice to have them or not (based on how much money I have and my desire). Just because I think it’s cool to have a thing doesn’t mean that it’s essential.

Hey, everyone, you like Minecraft? Great, we’ll make it essential, too! You really like walk-in pantries? BAM! Essential! Shirts with collars? Boy, you better BELIEVE those are essential, now! Crustless bread? WHY should ANYONE ever be without that? ESSSSSENTIAL!

 

[bwillwall]

I don’t NEED electricity. I don’t NEED a car. I don’t NEED a smartphone. I have a choice to have them or not (based on how much money I have and my desire). Just because I think it’s cool to have a thing doesn’t mean that it’s essential.

Hey, everyone, you like Minecraft? Great, we’ll make it essential, too! You really like walk-in pantries? BAM! Essential! Shirts with collars? Boy, you better BELIEVE those are essential, now! Crustless bread? WHY should ANYONE ever be without that? ESSSSSENTIAL!

Rofl.

yeah I’m sure you’d fare well without your iPhone and even better without electricity.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Rofl.

yeah I’m sure you’d fare well without your iPhone and even better without electricity.

Why would I ever be without an iPhone if I want one and can pay for it? Same with electricity, my house, my car, my clothes, my shoes etc.

 

[pasamio]

Half the world is a slave to a dictator.

I'm not sure how this relates or even if it's necessarily factually correct?

Essential to live is open to interpretation.

Exactly my point, which is why I keep asking for your definition of essential. You made the following statement:

iPhones are an essential device. iPhones are not game consoles. iPhones are not department stores. iPhones are personal computers. Apple has not simply done what anyone else has ever done by walling in an essential device to the extent they have.

I'm trying to figure out your definition of essential. In so far is personal computers and since iPhones are personal computers they are transitively included in that. Out seems to be department stores and game consoles even though game consoles are also technically personal computers too.

It’s really convenient if you to, just like many apple fans, explain away apples part in the smartphone duopoly by saying they don’t sell data but that’s irrelevant. Sure they might not profit from your data directly but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t change that in a day if they felt like it.

The duopoly only exists because Google undercut the market and gained a monopoly in the smartphone operating system market. I point out that going after the revenue stream of the only alternative to that monopoly ecosystem seems like a risky strategy.

Duopoly obscures the reality that Apple doesn't sell an operating system, they sell devices. There are many devices from many vendors on the market. The problem is every other phone runs Android. Tablet space is healthier with Microsoft's presence though even then Google is still a large player.

And that’s not the issue. The issue here is their monopoly on HOW a phone is used and what software is even allowed on it. So as you’ve confirmed here the duopoly gives two choices. Use apples whitelist of apps and play by their very strict rules, or have all your data stolen but be allowed to own your device. This is unacceptable on both sides.

Apple built a device and built software to run it. As a part of that software they built an SDK and licensing program to enable you to leverage their intellectual property. That licensing program defines the terms on which you can leverage said intellectual property. That includes a yearly fee and a requirement that distribution is through Apple's App Store. When they announced this program, back when Apple had 1% of the market, Steve Jobs stood up on stage and said they were going to moderate the App Store content to make sure it complies with their guidelines. It's been over a decade and Apple have slowly grown their marketshare to 50% of the smartphone market against strong competitors like Samsung and at the same time some competitors in that market have fallen away like LG, HTC (who used to make Windows Mobile devices years ago too) and Sony.

There is no law requiring a device manufacturer to open it up for any reason, we're at an interesting nexus point where we are potentially going to force a hardware vendor to run third party software on their device leveraging their own IP potentially without compensation. That's a crazy rewrite of property laws.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yes, how could Apple ignore the essential device principle, though I'm blanking...what is the definition of an essential device in law again? Perhaps if there isn't any applicable legislation, maybe something from case law?

I’m beginning to think that “essential” just means “a device that Epic Games can monetize by releasing Fortnite on.” It’s very likely the clearest and most accurate descriptor you’ll find in these forums

Because, if the iPhone couldn’t run Fortnite, we wouldn’t even be having the discussion