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For all those people wanting more megapixels for the iPhone camera

As is pointed out in the comments below, that's not a terribly good article.

It's certainly true that the amount of megapixels isn't the biggest contributor to the iPhone's camera being poor - the shittly lens, poor CMOS and lack of flash are (and bad software that doesn't offer some of the chipsets native features like video encoding). But that's not exactly a good thing, because none of those problems have been fixed either.

There's an argument in the thread that they wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but they certainly would (3.2 megapixel sensors with better light detection, a much better autofocus lens and a flash fit in a Sony Ericcsson K850i. It is a few mm thicker than the iphone, but the lens is behind the screen - on the iphone it isn't, it's on top, so there's the equivalent thickness available for the camera assembly internally). Nor would it add significantly to costs for manufucture. Which is why many other camera phones are able to offer it, and are better. My crappy old K750i was comfortably able to outperform my iPhone (especially in low light, which is REALLY important for a camera phone), and they cost an awful lot less to manufacture...

However, the notion that the extra noise and loss of light performance would lead to worse performance with more megapixels is flat out wrong. That doesn't apply until much higher megapixel counts (well, unless you're talking about truly terrible CMOS designs like you get in crappy disposable digital cameras). 2mp to 3.5mp would be an improvement. 5mp to 7mp wouldn't be, and indeed arguably counterproductive.

Phazer
 
Doesnt make much sense. The LG Secret is 11.8mm thick, and has a 5 megapixel camera with auto-focus. Apple is just going for the cheap mass market.
 
The Phazer said:
As is pointed out in the comments below, that's not a terribly good article.

It's certainly true that the amount of megapixels isn't the biggest contributor to the iPhone's camera being poor - the shittly lens, poor CMOS and lack of flash are (and bad software that doesn't offer some of the chipsets native features like video encoding). But that's not exactly a good thing, because none of those problems have been fixed either.

There's an argument in the thread that they wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but they certainly would (3.2 megapixel sensors with better light detection, a much better autofocus lens and a flash fit in a Sony Ericcsson K850i. It is a few mm thicker than the iphone, but the lens is behind the screen - on the iphone it isn't, it's on top, so there's the equivalent thickness available for the camera assembly internally). Nor would it add significantly to costs for manufucture. Which is why many other camera phones are able to offer it, and are better. My crappy old K750i was comfortably able to outperform my iPhone (especially in low light, which is REALLY important for a camera phone), and they cost an awful lot less to manufacture...

However, the notion that the extra noise and loss of light performance would lead to worse performance with more megapixels is flat out wrong. That doesn't apply until much higher megapixel counts (well, unless you're talking about truly terrible CMOS designs like you get in crappy disposable digital cameras). 2mp to 3.5mp would be an improvement. 5mp to 7mp wouldn't be, and indeed arguably counterproductive.

Phazer
Click to expand...

I was just about to post a similar thing, but your post is way better and more informative. ;)

Yeah, I know megapixel count isn't EVERYTHING, but it's not nothing either. The iPhone's camera COULD be improved, considerably -- it's just that Apple chose not to focus on upgrading the camera at this time, and instead chose to focus on other stuff like 3G and GPS. Which is fine! I'm just not upgrading my iPhone until there's a better camera, because the other improvements aren't worth it to me. A better camera WOULD make it worth it. That would truly eliminate any need I would have to bring an extra camera with me. The iPhone takes GREAT pics...for a phone. But I need something just slightly better. It doesn't have to be a world-class camera. Just something where I wouldn't wish I had a "real" camera with me when I'm trying to take pics with it.
 
I agree with you that it doesn't answer why other aspects of the camera weren't upgraded. You can't really compare it with the cybershot phones though, they are marketed as high-quality camera phones, whereas the iPhone has other great features that it focuses on, and just happens to have a camera. It's not a main selling point of the iPhone and never has been touted as one. A K750i will obviously outperform an iPhone, why wouldn't it? Same MP rating, autofocus, flash, cybershot branded blah blah :)

OT: I'm never touching a SE phone again. My last phone was a K850i, I went through 4, yes 4 of them, all of them faulty in one way or another.
 
Archie- said:
Doesnt make much sense. The LG Secret is 11.8mm thick, and has a 5 megapixel camera with auto-focus. Apple is just going for the cheap mass market.
Click to expand...

i dont think apple really think a 5 megapixel is needed, else would do it.

Apple never go for the cheap mass market... dont no how u came up with that one.
 
It's not the megapixels that bother me about the phone, it's the shutter speed. I think the iPhone takes pretty good still shots but if anything moves, it's blurry.
 
phannon666 said:
I agree with you that it doesn't answer why other aspects of the camera weren't upgraded. You can't really compare it with the cybershot phones though, they are marketed as high-quality camera phones, whereas the iPhone has other great features that it focuses on, and just happens to have a camera. It's not a main selling point of the iPhone and never has been touted as one. A K750i will obviously outperform an iPhone, why wouldn't it? Same MP rating, autofocus, flash, cybershot branded blah blah :)
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty legitimate to compare a k750i. It's got about the same amount of space for a lens assembly, it's *nearly four years old* now, and costs buttons even with some extra hardware features (like a memory stick reader and an FM radio). I'm not even sure the K750i was marketed as primarily being a camera phone at the time - the W800i is the same phone with the same camera and carried walkman branding and was pitched much more as a music phone. Sure, it's not a good music phone nowadays, but it's ancient.

This isn't meant to be a "SE's are better than iPhone's rant". I love my iPhone to bits. But I just think it's legitimate to say that the lack of improvement on the camera seems to me to be a real tactical blunder by Apple.

Phazer
 
Mad Mac Maniac said:
Really? Have you not heard all the accusations about the iphone 3g? plastic backing, moderate improvements, cheaper glass... People think this 3g is taking the el cheapo route...
Click to expand...

Why do people have to post things like this and spread rumors made based on assumptions????

Very few people have touched the new phone and those people had good feedback. Until we get the phone and it is torn apart, we won't know what is really going on. Please stop the bashing until you know for sure.
 
The Phazer said:
However, the notion that the extra noise and loss of light performance would lead to worse performance with more megapixels is flat out wrong. That doesn't apply until much higher megapixel counts.....
Click to expand...

Well that's not really true either. It depends on sensor size, which means it may apply at lower MP count. If the pixel size is like 2 microns, it would still allow for OK performance. If the pixel size is smaller, then it'll suck. It really depends on the size of the sensor used in the camera, and since I know the sensors in mobile phones is miniscule (something like 1/3.5"), I wouldn't want a 5 MP camera-phone anyway, seeing as how a 3 MP version of the same sensor (ie: using the same generation of sensor technology), would give me far better results.

If what people want are better results, then I can understand what people are talking abotu. If people think pixels are going to solve that problem, then forget it.
 
Abstract said:
If what people want are better results, then I can understand what people are talking abotu. If people think pixels are going to solve that problem, then forget it.
Click to expand...

As Mad Mac Maniac said above, people really just want better results from the camera -- and assume higher megapixels means better (after all, that's what digital camera advertisements or salesmen have been telling us for years, so it's not surprising most people think that).

I'm not sure why so many people are bothered by others asking for a higher megapixel camera on the iPhone. It makes perfect "sense" to me why they would...
 
Oh no, another article trying to use excuse the lack of something in the iPhone.

This should be placed right next to all the oft-quoted articles that tried to make EDGE sound like a good choice over 3G, because of latency or bogus Blackjack battery comparisons or whatever.

When most people say they want more megapixels, what they really mean is a better camera, no matter how it's accomplished.

Arstechnica is one of the worst pseudo-engineering sites around. They often throw in just enough truth to make their other BS look plausible.
 
phannon666 said:
..the iPhone has other great features that it focuses on, and just happens to have a camera..
Click to expand...

This is quite funny (and seemingly accurate) when you think about the 3G keynote as Steve is describing the phone as having "super fantastic-this, and super advanced-that, and "a....camera..", haha.
 
My take on what many of you are wanting; you can't even see the strips of "Duct Tape" (double-sided) b/c I'm that good! :p
 

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I agree with both sides of this debate. It is a **** camera. But it's adequate enough for my phone, which strangely I use for making calls and looking at data. The camera is just a way of taking notes when I'm at work. Or at a push, taking a photo when I see something beautiful and don't have a real camera to hand.
 
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