for all who said that Lion is Apple's Vista..

[Gomff]

Based on the rest of your post, I gather that you don't understand a major point about the crapware that Dell and other major manufacturers install on their computers. The Windows PC business is like the newspaper and magazine business. The customer is the advertiser, not the retail buyer. The products are the users eyeballs of the user.

The "customer is the advertiser?" The products are the "users eyeballs of the user?"

I'm sorry but your analogy is a bit too surreal for me to follow. Can you find a more succinct explanation?

 

[RJCP]

So which Windows OS did you install? Instead of doing all those updates did you think of doing a Service Pack instead? SPs usually have all the updates rolled into one. Not all of them but most of them. Plus Windows supports every PC makers hardware to some extent so it will need some updates. Did you go the vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, ASUS) site and get the drivers for the PC? I usually plan ahead and do this so as to not have problems. I love OSX (SL) but I also really like Win 7. I can usually be done with a Win 7 install in about 30 minutes including all the drivers and updates.

The computer came with 7 Home Edition pre-installed. It did install the SP1, which was about the last thing it installed. Listen, I didn't fiddle with the updates to be downloaded, I just left windows to do its work. It doesn't do a combo update like OSX, unfortunately. I counted how many minor upgrades it downloaded plus the service pack. Between Office updates and Windows updates, it downloaded around 160 small fixes, one after the other. Then it would download updates to the updates, restart to put the updates to work, then restart again to finish the install... Hell, absolute hell.

 

[vitzr]

My how interesting, I thought this was an Apple forum.

I don't care one wit about windows, yet here is a bunch of childish arguing.

 

[darster]

I have nothing against Windows 7. It's a good OS. The problem I had was finding a quality PC that could last more than a couple of years before the drives started going bad and so on. PC quality is junk, because many of the parts are poorly made. And the issues of some pc's not playing well with Windows. That's the problem with Microsoft. They just provide the software. They have no control over the parts that make up a PC. That's why I switched to Apple.

 

[Soliber]

Windows vista was like that, windows7 is actually very similar to OSX in how much it asks 'are you sure?'

In frequency perhaps, but in execution...
On my Win 7 workstation I often have to *wait* for the popup dialog to show. I see both my screens turn black and usually there's a noticeable delay before I see the dialog.
OS X's security dialog is a lot smoother and by far less intrusive.
One of the golden rules for a Windows dev is to never turn of UAC on your development workstation, because there's always the chance that you're doing something that ordinarily requires enhanced privileges. And I know this all too well, but every time I turn it back on, I end up regretting it after a while.
MS needs to redo UAC so that it becomes less intrusive.

 

[MisterMe]

The "customer is the advertiser?" The products are the "users eyeballs of the user?"

I'm sorry but your analogy is a bit too surreal for me to follow. Can you find a more succinct explanation?

There is nothing surreal about it. It is also not an analogy. This is how advertising works. If you work in "Sales" for a newspaper or TV station, then you sell advertising. If your job is to sell newspapers, then you work in "Circulation." Particularly in broadcast media, you guarantee the customer a number of eyeballs. If your programming does not deliver the guaranteed number of eyeballs, then you have to "make good." This may involve running additional ads free of charge until the total number of eyeballs guaranteed to the customer are delivered.

 

[Gomff]

There is nothing surreal about it. It is also not an analogy. This is how advertising works. If you work in "Sales" for a newspaper or TV station, then you sell advertising. If your job is to sell newspapers, then you work in "Circulation." Particularly in broadcast media, you guarantee the customer a number of eyeballs. If your programming does not deliver the guaranteed number of eyeballs, then you have to "make good." This may involve running additional ads free of charge until the total number of eyeballs guaranteed to the customer are delivered.

I've read through your previous two posts addressed to me and I'm really struggling to see your point. My comment which prompted a response from you initially was about crapware and you gathering that I don't understand some major point about its inclusion in big PC manufacturer's Windows systems. If I were to sum your point up, it would be "Third party manufacturers pay companies like Dell a small fee to include trial versions of their software in the hope that the user will be inclined to buy a full version / subscribe to some related service or other". "Gathering" that I don't understand basic speculative marketing of this nature is somewhat irksome but I digress.

What's confusing me is the relevance of your posts to my stating that the inclusion of crapware bloats a system and you need to tune it (ie, mostly delete the junk software) to optimise it. I fail to see what this has to do with marketing, unless my remarks were merely serving as an opportunity for you to demonstrate some sort of marketing jargon prowess.

 

[jamezr]

Based on the rest of your post, I gather that you don't understand a major point about the crapware that Dell and other major manufacturers install on their computers. The Windows PC business is like the newspaper and magazine business. The customer is the advertiser, not the retail buyer. The products are the users eyeballs of the user.

This is a rope that Windows apologists have been pushing since at least Windows 3.0. It wasn't true then. It isn't true now. My compliments to the OP for calling them out on it.

What? Do you know your not making sense?

----------

The computer came with 7 Home Edition pre-installed. It did install the SP1, which was about the last thing it installed. Listen, I didn't fiddle with the updates to be downloaded, I just left windows to do its work. It doesn't do a combo update like OSX, unfortunately. I counted how many minor upgrades it downloaded plus the service pack. Between Office updates and Windows updates, it downloaded around 160 small fixes, one after the other. Then it would download updates to the updates, restart to put the updates to work, then restart again to finish the install... Hell, absolute hell.

LOL..... you have a great point! MS needs to do a better job on packaging their updates!

 

[Badrottie]

Apple Lion is like Windows Vista??? Then I am not going to buy a Macbook Pro or Lion..I will stick with my Powerbook G4 with Leopard 10.5.8!

 

[iMacFarlane]

What I described was my personal experience, every single time I reinstalled Windows, on the two PCs I have ever owned. I'm sure most people don't have such problems, but a significant amount of Windows users do. In OS X you're not likely to have such problems, in my experience at least.

The OP said that Windows isn't as "out-of-the box" as OS X is, and I find it to be true. In OS X the first thing I do isn't: "quick, change the default browser, quick, change all the default settings, damn, I can't believe my USB device requires a driver to work, crap, to install this, I first need to install that, which requires that update, which won't install without that other thing...".

A fresh copy of Windows is like a new house without furniture. It's a nice start but it feels cold, empty, useless, and you need to "populate it" to make it personal. It requires loads of tweaking and changing stuff around to get it the way you like. A Mac, on the other hand, is pretty much useable as soon as you boot it for the first time. Sure, you need to change stuff too, but you don't cringe when you realize that IE is the only installed browser, and that the wallpaper is too ugly for you to continue using the computer without changing it.

The other thing is that - in my experience - Windows needs to be reinstalled regularly in order for it to work right, and therefore you need to deal with the above issues on a regular basis.

Of course, once again, sorry for speaking in general terms, all the above is only MY personal experience, and I'm sure many people don't feel that way at all.

No man, I totally get you. I've been down all those roads and then some.
DOS 5.1 through DOS 6.22.
Windows 3.1
Windows 3.11 for workgroups (whatever that was supposed to mean)
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 2000
Windows XP

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and ate the whole bag of chips.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

...I suggest you go and buy a new PC...

And you should "buy" a new troll account.

 

[randolorian]

I was happy with Win7 until I got a virus and some malware. After repeated epsiodes of that and my best efforts to avoid them, I moved to Mac because I was too paranoid to do all of my online banking and other confidential work on Windows. I understand Mac OS is not malware-free, but the risk is MUCH lower, low enough for me to switch for the security and peace of mind.

Now that I'm used to OS X, I actually find it more intuitive and enjoyable to use. There is something satisfying about using a Mac that I never felt on a PC, and as with almost all things in life, I'm happy to pay extra for a better experience.

 

[chrono1081]

Lion is fine if you're a Twitbooker and you like dripfeeding Apple micro payments through the App store for Apps you never knew you needed (and probably didn't) but if you have some serious work to do like editing HD video, or 3D graphics then Lion has some big issues that need looking at.

I disagree that Lion has big issues and I make video games and do 3D work as a hobby. I have yet to find any of these mythical issues.

Here's what I use:

Maya
ZBrush
3D Coat
Unity 3D
XCode
Houdini
Painter
Photoshop
After Effects
Logic

(and much more but those are my main programs)

If Lion actually had any of these problems people mention (yet never specify) I'm sure I wouldn't be able to work in any of those but I can, very efficiently.

 

[416049]

I find that mac os in general is more productive to use for getting something done like school work, rendering, image editing etc... but gaming macs are still quite a bit lagging behind windows unfortunately, the only reason i would consider a windows computer.. (yes there is steam but most games are still windows based, especially multi-player ones.