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For external SSD (for booting the Mac OS), is it better to get T5 or internal NVMe within a case?
- Thread starter levmc
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Would this one work?
Yes.
Crucial P1 1TB 3D NAND NVMe PCIe Internal SSD, up to 2000MB/s - CT1000P1SSD8
Whether you are trying to get in the game faster or store all your precious memories, the Crucial P1 SSD delivers. Capacities start at 500GB and scale to 2TB. Accelerate performance with the latest NVMe PCIe technology. The P1 is designed to be the only storage upgrade you need — storage, speed, ...
www.amazon.com
Yes.
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Thanks for the reply! I just saw this from OWC it looks pretty cool! Uses any 2280 M.2 NVMe SSD available today. Only $75.The TEKQ Cube Thunderbolt 3 Enclosure
TEKQ Cube Thunderbolt 3 SSD Enclosure (0G) Support WD SN550 SN750 Crucial P2 (NOT Compatible with Device Without Thunderbolt 3 Interface) (0G)
TEKQ Cube Thunderbolt 3 SSD Enclosure (0G) Support WD SN550 SN750 Crucial P2 (NOT Compatible with Device Without Thunderbolt 3 Interface) (0G)smile.amazon.com
OWC Express 1M2 - The Fastest Single Portable SSD We Offer
Ultra-fast, compatible, and reliable portable USB4 NVMe SSD with speeds up to 3836MB/s. Build your own or choose ready-to-run solutions for your Mac or PC.
eshop.macsales.com
OP:
If you don't want to pay for the X5, get a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure and put an nvme drive into it.
USB3.1 gen2 will give you read speeds of 965MBps or so. Not "X5 speeds", but the cost will be lower and the drive won't run as hot as do the X5's.
I used an Orico enclosure like this:
ORICO M.2 SATA B+M/B Key SSD Enclosure USB 3.1 Type C 5Gbps External Solid State Enclosure Adapter for 2280/2260/2242/2230 M.2 NGFF SSD 4TB Max, NOT Supoort PCIe NVMe/AHCI M.2 SSD-Black
12 MONTHS FREE REPLACEMENT AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT: If there was any problem with the products from ORICO Direct Store, please contact us, you will get a free-replacement within 12 months.www.amazon.com
Any nvme blade SSD should do.
BE AWARE that you don't have to buy "the fastest" blade. You just need one with speeds around 1,000MBps or so. That's all the USB3.1 gen2 enclosure will deliver, so don't pay for more that you don't need.
That's a really great solution - I saw one for sale on a local hardware site but I couldn't purchase it right then and there. It was a case similar to that you link to - if not the same.. I never got to ask the seller. The listing is now gone. Even came with a M2 drive. Thanks again for the link.
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This is a great article with very good visuals on Thunderbolt and speed differences
filmdrives.com
WILL THUNDERBOLT MAKE MY DRIVES FASTER?
In short, sometimes. But in most circumstances it won't make a difference. This is a common assumption that comes up time and time again. I have had many Production Managers assure me that 'I got Thunderbolt Drives so they'll be the fastest and we'll be covered'. This is almost never true and I...
filmdrives.com
OP:
If you don't want to pay for the X5, get a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure and put an nvme drive into it.
USB3.1 gen2 will give you read speeds of 965MBps or so. Not "X5 speeds", but the cost will be lower and the drive won't run as hot as do the X5's.
I used an Orico enclosure like this:
ORICO M.2 SATA B+M/B Key SSD Enclosure USB 3.1 Type C 5Gbps External Solid State Enclosure Adapter for 2280/2260/2242/2230 M.2 NGFF SSD 4TB Max, NOT Supoort PCIe NVMe/AHCI M.2 SSD-Black
12 MONTHS FREE REPLACEMENT AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT: If there was any problem with the products from ORICO Direct Store, please contact us, you will get a free-replacement within 12 months.www.amazon.com
Any nvme blade SSD should do.
BE AWARE that you don't have to buy "the fastest" blade. You just need one with speeds around 1,000MBps or so. That's all the USB3.1 gen2 enclosure will deliver, so don't pay for more that you don't need.
The only thing with this is that 'vertical smile' recommended 3.2 and this Orico is a 3.1
What 'vertical smile' said: If you are just trying to get speeds similar to you 2014 MBP (write/read of over 700MBps), USB 3.2 Gen2 NVMe enclosures should more than meet those speeds. They are relatively cheap when compared to TB3 NVMe enclosures.
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USB 3 naming is a confusing bag of hurt. I won’t go into details but at some point it was decided to rename the standard in existing products rather than have a name scheme that showed the difference clearly without having multiple names for the same thing. Some manufacturers haven’t really caught up in their listings because it doesn’t make a huge difference. That product would be enough.
I use an orico housing for my (SATA) Samsung 860 and it works great.
The naming of USB3 keeps changing, and can be very confusing if you don't keep up with the changes.
USB 3.1 Gen2 is the same exact specification of USB 3.2 Gen2. Both are based off of the USB 3.1 specification, and have a throughput of 10Gbps.
When shopping around if you see something advertised as USB 3.1 Gen2, just know that it is the same thing as USB 3.2 Gen2, just using an older moniker.
Would this be not compatible with MBP 2014?The TEKQ Cube Thunderbolt 3 Enclosure
TEKQ Cube Thunderbolt 3 SSD Enclosure (0G) Support WD SN550 SN750 Crucial P2 (NOT Compatible with Device Without Thunderbolt 3 Interface) (0G)
TEKQ Cube Thunderbolt 3 SSD Enclosure (0G) Support WD SN550 SN750 Crucial P2 (NOT Compatible with Device Without Thunderbolt 3 Interface) (0G)smile.amazon.com
Your MBP has Thunderbolt 2. The enclosure requires Thunderbolt 3. Not sure if it would work with a TB2 to TB3 adapter.
Alright, Thanks. I looked at the Amazon review for Orico and one review says that it can overheat:
Would this something I would have to worry about?
Where did you hear about overheating?
I saw one review on Amazon that talked about overheating. Was there any other source that talked about overheating with ORICO?
I suspect that ALL enclosures which utilize nvme drives will run on the hot side.
Some will be hotter than others.
This probably has something to do with the nvme technology itself -- i.e., the high data transfer rates result in a lot of generated heat.
I've been reading that CompactFlash Express cards used in the new Canon EOS R5 camera can create an overheating situation inside the camera, as well -- again, because CF express uses some of the nvme technology to yield higher data writes/reads...
Some will be hotter than others.
This probably has something to do with the nvme technology itself -- i.e., the high data transfer rates result in a lot of generated heat.
I've been reading that CompactFlash Express cards used in the new Canon EOS R5 camera can create an overheating situation inside the camera, as well -- again, because CF express uses some of the nvme technology to yield higher data writes/reads...
I'm worried that the heat might cause damage to the NVMe SSD inside, and cause it to fry and loss of data. As long as I back the data up somewhere else, I would be ok, but it would be expensive to replace the fried SSD.
Does the NVMe SSD not give off as much heat when it is installed internally compared to when it's used externally?
Meanwhile I found one brand that says it uses silicon thermal pad which helps cool it: https://www.amazon.com/ineo-Aluminu...rds=3.2+nvme+enclosure&qid=1596732757&sr=8-13
Does the NVMe SSD not give off as much heat when it is installed internally compared to when it's used externally?
Meanwhile I found one brand that says it uses silicon thermal pad which helps cool it: https://www.amazon.com/ineo-Aluminu...rds=3.2+nvme+enclosure&qid=1596732757&sr=8-13
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I don't think one is hotter than the other, but it has more to do with passive versus active cooling. A lot of external enclosures use passive cooling which usually means a heatsink with no fan, compared to internally, which uses fans.
There are some enclosures that use active cooling, so if this is a concern I would got with that.
I am not sure if this matters for that review, but sometimes people mix up terms like "overheating" and "getting hot".
A NVMe SSD will get hot, and some will throttle to prevent overheating, but if overheating to the point of causing damage was more common, I am sure it would be reflected by reviews.
That explains it, thank you.
Meanwhile, I got another recommendation from elsewhere: https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Enclo...=ugreen+ssd+en,aps,174&sr=8-4#customerReviews
This one says it's USB C 3.1, but also says it's Thunderbolt 3 Compatible, so would that mean that it's not compatible with 2014 MBP?
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No, it’ll work. I assume they just put “compatible” to indicate it will work with a TB3 port and also to potentially gain sales from people searching for cheap TB3 enclosures that don’t read closely enough.
If you’re using this with a 2014 MBP, you’re limited to either TB2 or standard USB 3.0, so I’m not sure spending the extra on an NVMe and 3.1/3.2 Gen 2 enclosure makes sense. Getting an external SATA SSD (if TB2 is too pricey) or even a Samsung T5 or T7 would be fine.
Only a small number of Macs will let you do a storage swap and SSD prices drop every year, which would limit the usefulness of buying an NVMe and an enclosure vs just getting a T5 or T7 (whichever one you can get cheaper). Plus the Samsung drives come with all the various USB adaptors so you don’t need to find a separate dongle.
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Cheaper enclosures are going to have different thermals, but honestly, I’d be more worried about the quality of the solder on the I/O board on the enclosure than it overheating. I genuinely think there is a bigger risk of a cheap enclosure having power issues vs the NVMe overheating.
Again, unless you’re frequently planning on pulling the NVMe and moving it to another machine (and your Mac options to do that are both limited and a PITA from a repair POV in that it takes a lot of time), I think getting a good external SSD like the T5 or T7 is the most economical idea, especially from a performance POV. Those drives are good and fast (not as fast as TB3 but quite good, especially for the size) and your 2014 machine isn’t going to benefit from faster IO anyway. If you were planning on buying a new MBP or iMac tomorrow, *maybe* getting an external NVMe would make sense (even then, your blocker is that all the enclosures you’re looking at are USB 3.1/3.2 Gen 2 and that bandwidth 10Gbps which is the same speed as TB2 but slower than what you could do with TB3 and that some NVMe drives will output), but spending a lot of money on a drive and interface your current machine can’t fully support doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. By the time you’re on your next machine, chances are drives will be even faster and less expensive.
I used to always build my own drives but these days for SSDs, unless there is a drive that I either can’t get as a pre-built (meaning I want a particular piece of flash storage that doesn’t have an option) or I have a reliable enclosure for that I want to use with multiple drives (I have some good SATA 2.5” SSD enclosures that are designed to be easy to swap in and out and a very expensive NAS) or with specific I/O options (which means the enclosure is expensive), I just buy pre-builts (almost always Samsung because they have been the most consistent over the years).
I don’t know anything about the brands you’ve listed but these Chinese enclosures are often just white labeled stuff with inconsistent QA. So some batches could be great, another could be terrible. I’m much more concerned about an enclosure not being properly reinforced to deal with power spikes that could fry the drive than I am a drive overheating. I trust the drive to throttle itself if the tolerances aren’t met. I don’t always trust the cheaper enclosures.
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The only issue I have with this article is it doesn’t cover the replacement for SATA3 used by the latest SSDs, which would cause the 900MB/sec USB3 connection to become the bottleneck. Other than that, it’s a great primer for how the components relate to each other in affecting data delivery speed.This is a great article with very good visuals on Thunderbolt and speed differences
WILL THUNDERBOLT MAKE MY DRIVES FASTER?
In short, sometimes. But in most circumstances it won't make a difference. This is a common assumption that comes up time and time again. I have had many Production Managers assure me that 'I got Thunderbolt Drives so they'll be the fastest and we'll be covered'. This is almost never true and I...
I think the Example 04 would cover that, unless I am misunderstanding what you mean.
One issue for Mac that is not mentioned with the use of TRIM on SSDs, which could make a huge difference regardless of the bottleneck. So in that case, Thunderbolt would always have the advantage over USB.
@filmgirl
I was thinking of using it mainly with my 2017 iMac, and maybe use it with 2014 MacBook too if needed (if I move somewhere for example, and don't take my iMac with me, and decide to put in in my MBP, swapping the 256 GB PCIe SSD in it with the 1TB NVMe SSD).
By the way, since 2014 MBP come with PCIe SSDs, would that give off less heat than NVMe SSD, so that replacing them with NVMe instead of PCIe might make them it hotter?
Thanks for warning about the cheaper enclosures, I'm thinking I should probably get T5 so my family can use it with the iMac if I don't bring it with me, as iMac would just be incomplete without an SSD. I do feel like I want to buy a new iMac once I move, since the 2017 iMac goes up to only 64 GB RAM, and I feel like I need more.
I was thinking of using it mainly with my 2017 iMac, and maybe use it with 2014 MacBook too if needed (if I move somewhere for example, and don't take my iMac with me, and decide to put in in my MBP, swapping the 256 GB PCIe SSD in it with the 1TB NVMe SSD).
By the way, since 2014 MBP come with PCIe SSDs, would that give off less heat than NVMe SSD, so that replacing them with NVMe instead of PCIe might make them it hotter?
Thanks for warning about the cheaper enclosures, I'm thinking I should probably get T5 so my family can use it with the iMac if I don't bring it with me, as iMac would just be incomplete without an SSD. I do feel like I want to buy a new iMac once I move, since the 2017 iMac goes up to only 64 GB RAM, and I feel like I need more.
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By the way, if I have get T5, do I have to enable TRIM following instrucitons?
www.lifewire.com
Turn on TRIM for the SSD on Your Mac
TRIM is disabled in OS X for third-party SSDs, but with this simple Terminal command, you can enable TRIM for any SSD you have added to your Mac.
By the way, if I have get T5, do I have to enable TRIM following instrucitons?
Turn on TRIM for the SSD on Your Mac
TRIM is disabled in OS X for third-party SSDs, but with this simple Terminal command, you can enable TRIM for any SSD you have added to your Mac.
Last time I checked (last year), TRIM support over USB wasn't possible on macOS (it is in Windows on the T5 according to reviews, but only under NTFS). It isn’t even clear if APFS has a TRIM command, assuming that’s what you want to use.
It isn't with MacOS.
TRIM works with Thunderbolt and FW drives, but not USB.
While Thunderbolt options are usually a lot more expensive than USB, being able to have TRIM enabled could make the extra cost worth it for some.
OP:
A USB3.1 gen2 enclosure (with nvme drive) will work fine with BOTH the 2017 iMac and the 2014 MBP.
It will give you read speeds around 965MBps with the 2019 (USBc port) and read speeds around 430MBps (USBa port) with the 2014.
You can't use TRIM with any USB drive.
But TRIM is pretty much a non-issue, particularly with non-booting drives.
A USB3.1 gen2 enclosure (with nvme drive) will work fine with BOTH the 2017 iMac and the 2014 MBP.
It will give you read speeds around 965MBps with the 2019 (USBc port) and read speeds around 430MBps (USBa port) with the 2014.
You can't use TRIM with any USB drive.
But TRIM is pretty much a non-issue, particularly with non-booting drives.