iPhone 16 Pro For those who are disappointed

[adrianlondon]

I'm pleasantly surprised my 5 year old iPhone 11 runs iOS 18 so well.

It gives me confidence that my next iPhone will also be a worthwhile purchase as it, too, should last me a few years.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I don’t upgrade yearly because I don’t always need/want the latest and greatest.

 

[dumastudetto]

I love it lol. You can shoot high quality pictures and movies**!!

(**with a WHOLE LOT of aux lighting)

I believe most of the lighting used in these demos is done using the integrated flashlight within iPhone.

 

[Leo90]

I upgrade every single year because I really enjoy having the latest iPhone and I can sell my current one for a very good price, so the small price difference I pay is ok. Besides, my iPhone is the device I use the most throughout the year. Therefore, having the latest one is important for me. But of course, if you are not a tech enthusiast I totally understand holding onto your iPhone for many years. Both options are perfectly fine.

 

[Kronsteen]

The counterpoint is the rate of progress of Chinese smartphones. For a while everyone smirked with the excuse that China is just catching up by copying existing tech but now they're right at the intersection of taking over, in many departments they already have. I'm not just talking about foldables (like Huawei's tri fold or Honor's Magic V3 that nearly matches the thinness of an iPhone when folded), but I mean their regular slab phones.

I've seen photography comparisons between leading Android phones (Pixel, Samsung), the iPhone, and some of the flagship Chinese phones and the Chinese phones blow everything out of water in many shooting scenarios. Some Chinese flagships are officially at point and shoot levels of quality with none of the tell-tale signs of "computational photography" processing which I'm starting to get really sick of on iPhone. Before someone chimes in and says iPhone/Samsung/Pixel are already point and shoot levels of quality, no they're not, just go take a look at the latest point and shoots from Sony for example. I was looking at point and shoot photos I took in 2010 that have better color rendering and realism than what iPhone shoots today.

That's what I was hoping for with the 16 Pro Max and the rumored new Sony sensor (which didn't end up happening). I was hoping for a generational leap in iPhone photo processing, a stark upgrade from what most phones in the US market currently deliver. Something that gives the latest Chinese flagships a run for their money. Sadly that didn't happen.

Give it another 3-5 years and the Chinese phones will be ahead in many categories to the point that it's undeniable.

Make no mistake that the trickling of features in iPhone has nothing to do with "smartphone stagnation" or any other excuse people like to make. It's simply because Apple don't feel the need to spend more on R&D for iPhone because everyone in the US is locked in to the ecosystem. Apple know unless there's some breakthrough technological paradigm from a startup that hits them out of left field, people using iPhone today will still be buying iPhone in 10 years. Combine that with the stats on how many teens around the world use iPhone why would you be head of heels panicking about falling behind technologically. You wouldn't care.

I don't want to live in a world where people keeping their iPhone for 5 years is something we justify because of 1) lack of genuine innovation and 2) people can't afford upgrades. Point 1 is entirely on Apple, they are consciously deciding NOT to push the iPhone to the cutting edge. I want the rate of technological improvement to be full steam ahead.

There's less of an ecosystem lock in effect in China (thank God) so there's fewer reasons for people not to switch to a domestic brand there. China will save the iPhone by force. Thank you Chinese market, you're the only thing keeping Apple up at night (other than falling behind in GenAI)

This is a really interesting perspective, and sounds eminently reasonable to me.

I have two questions:

1. Is there any hard evidence that the Chinese phone capabilities you describe are causing Apple to increase the pace of innovation (i.e. increase R&D spend)?

(If the Chinese market is keeping Apple up at night, one would hope they are doing more than just drinking strong coffee!)

2. Let’s assume for a moment that they aren’t (yet) feeling the need to react with greater urgency. By the time they do, will it be too late, or is the momentum inherent in the ecosystem lock-in going to keep them safe for the foreseeable future?

As for justifying keeping phones for 5+ years:

For several reasons, I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing. I’m as much of a techno-geek as most people (having worked in R&D for nearly forty years), but my phone (which I use primarily for phone calls and text messages) is not one of the things I care to spend money on — I’m only now upgrading my iPhone X. Which i appreciate may make me atypical, in terms of people on this forum. Whereas I’m happy to waste an embarrassing amount on computers with nice GPUs (for non-AI computational stuff) and on (unnecessarily heavy) camera kit. The camera capabilities of the 16 Pro will be nice to have, but they aren’t the reason I’m upgrading.

 

[bondr006]

I currently have the iPhone 13PM in Alpine Green for over 2 years now. It's my favorite iPhone so far and still has several years of updates left. I kept my 8 Plus (my previous favorite) for 5 years before I traded up to the 13PM and still got $140.00 towards my 13PM at the Apple store. Not much in the 16PM over the 13PM that is tempting me to upgrade. At this point the 13PM still has 87% battery life, so I'll probably just replace the battery sometime in the next year or two, put on a new case and screen protector, give it a new wallpaper, do a full reset, and keep it for a few more years. In the mean time the 13PM takes great pictures and videos, plays any music I want to hear, lets me watch tv shows and movies, makes and takes phone calls, surfs the web, and gets and sends messages and emails, and importantly still gives me all day+ battery life.

 

[tsukeyomi]

internal psychological pain

I would have no internal psychological pain too if I were as loaded as you are.

 

[iPhone2019]

I would pay €1999 for a flagship iPhone 17 Ultra that sits above the iPhone 17 Pro Max.

8 core cpu
A gpu that matches Mediateks gpu
1-inch main camera sensor
1/2-inch telephoto camera sensor
16GB of Ram
USB4
Tandem oled

 

[iPhone2019]

I guess the only logical conclusion to make is that the hardware in iPhone 17 Pro and Pro Max will be further behind the competition than what the hardware in iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Max are today. It's all about software for Apple.

 

[zakarhino]

This is a really interesting perspective, and sounds eminently reasonable to me.

I have two questions:

1. Is there any hard evidence that the Chinese phone capabilities you describe are causing Apple to increase the pace of innovation (i.e. increase R&D spend)?

(If the Chinese market is keeping Apple up at night, one would hope they are doing more than just drinking strong coffee!)

2. Let’s assume for a moment that they aren’t (yet) feeling the need to react with greater urgency. By the time they do, will it be too late, or is the momentum inherent in the ecosystem lock-in going to keep them safe for the foreseeable future?

As for justifying keeping phones for 5+ years:

For several reasons, I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing. I’m as much of a techno-geek as most people (having worked in R&D for nearly forty years), but my phone (which I use primarily for phone calls and text messages) is not one of the things I care to spend money on — I’m only now upgrading my iPhone X. Which i appreciate may make me atypical, in terms of people on this forum. Whereas I’m happy to waste an embarrassing amount on computers with nice GPUs (for non-AI computational stuff) and on (unnecessarily heavy) camera kit. The camera capabilities of the 16 Pro will be nice to have, but they aren’t the reason I’m upgrading.

Depends on your definition of hard evidence I suppose but all of the anecdotal statements and decisions made by Apple would suggest they consider the Chinese market to be one of the most important for their business. In the US once you're on iPhone you basically never leave. Most US teens (85+%) use iPhone and don't plan on switching.

Meanwhile, Apple have gone on record many times underlying the importance of competing in the Chinese market and their investors ask the same questions:

As iPhone sales keep falling, Apple’s Cook stays ‘positive’ on China

Global iPhone revenue fell 10 per cent in the first quarter, but Apple CEO Tim Cook said he has a “very positive viewpoint” on China despite increased competition.

www.scmp.com

Another hint is the frequency at which Apple executives (including Tim Cook) interview with Chinese tech channels unlike their US counterparts. They really care about signaling how much they love and respect the Chinese market.

The problem with iOS ecosystem lock in as it relates to China specifically is that Chinese customers don't use Apple's services as much as we do, if at all. Most of their core 'ecosystem apps' are all domestic Chinese brands like WeChat. So moving from iPhone to Huawei in China is similar to a US Android customer going from Samsung to Pixel, there's very little friction in doing so. Meanwhile, the ecosystem apps from companies like Huawei have a much stronger pull because major Chinese brands produce so many other products that Chinese customers already use.

In China one brand can make your phone, your car, your washing machine, your smart home devices, your TV, your smart speaker, your headphones, your connected health accessories, and so on and so on. Apple don't have that in China. Look at this video for context:

Chinese iPhone sales are stagnant or dropping so there's an argument to be made that it's already too late for Apple.

The rate of progress in Chinese tech is so huge that even comparing iPhones to Chinese phones of 3 years ago is no longer relevant. By 2026 I think the difference will be even more substantial. Then the problem becomes what happens when the rest of the world (including countries with emerging economies) want to buy Chinese folding phones instead of boring iPhones. Apple's only move here is to keep up with China or risk the US and parts of the Europe becoming their only market.

 

[Kronsteen]

Depends on your definition of hard evidence I suppose but all of the anecdotal statements and decisions made by Apple would suggest they consider the Chinese market to be one of the most important for their business. In the US once you're on iPhone you basically never leave. Most US teens (85+%) use iPhone and don't plan on switching.

Meanwhile, Apple have gone on record many times underlying the importance of competing in the Chinese market and their investors ask the same questions:

As iPhone sales keep falling, Apple’s Cook stays ‘positive’ on China

Global iPhone revenue fell 10 per cent in the first quarter, but Apple CEO Tim Cook said he has a “very positive viewpoint” on China despite increased competition.

www.scmp.com

Another hint is the frequency at which Apple executives (including Tim Cook) interview with Chinese tech channels unlike their US counterparts. They really care about signaling how much they love and respect the Chinese market.

The problem with iOS ecosystem lock in as it relates to China specifically is that Chinese customers don't use Apple's services as much as we do, if at all. Most of their core 'ecosystem apps' are all domestic Chinese brands like WeChat. So moving from iPhone to Huawei in China is similar to a US Android customer going from Samsung to Pixel, there's very little friction in doing so. Meanwhile, the ecosystem apps from companies like Huawei have a much stronger pull because major Chinese brands produce so many other products that Chinese customers already use.

In China one brand can make your phone, your car, your washing machine, your smart home devices, your TV, your smart speaker, your headphones, your connected health accessories, and so on and so on. Apple don't have that in China. Look at this video for context:

Chinese iPhone sales are stagnant or dropping so there's an argument to be made that it's already too late for Apple.

The rate of progress in Chinese tech is so huge that even comparing iPhones to Chinese phones of 3 years ago is no longer relevant. By 2026 I think the difference will be even more substantial. Then the problem becomes what happens when the rest of the world (including countries with emerging economies) want to buy Chinese folding phones instead of boring iPhones. Apple's only move here is to keep up with China or risk the US and parts of the Europe becoming their only market.

Thank you for taking the time to make such a comprehensive and perceptive reply. Some rather interesting points.

Your “US and parts of Europe” is all too true, I fear — this is something I have been suspecting myself — with, in the case of Europe, the emphasis on “parts of”. The EU aren’t exactly helping matters (to mangle the old saying, ”those who can do, those who can’t regulate”). What do they want people to do? Use Huawei? Count me out ….

(With apologies for going hopelessly off-topic and straying onto ground I should probably avoid.)

 

[JoeG4]

In China one brand can make your phone, your car, your washing machine, your smart home devices, your TV, your smart speaker, your headphones, your connected health accessories, and so on and so on. Apple don't have that in China. Look at this video for context:

But why do you want that?

 

[zakarhino]

But why do you want that?

Because it's seamlessly tied together in an ecosystem just like Apple products are if you use a Mac, iPhone, iPad, AirPods, and Apple Watch. The Apple equivalent ecosystems of domestic Chinese companies are apparently more popular with the Chinese market than what Apple currently offer over there.

 

[d5aqoëp]

I think Apple is afraid that if they updated everything that they know they could so quickly that they would run out of things to innovate for next year and disappoint investors.

If by mistake, Apple adds 120hz screens for non pro models, 70-80% of pro users would skip Pro making Pro models redundant.

 

[Zwhaler]

If by mistake, Apple adds 120hz screens for non pro models, 70-80% of pro users would skip Pro making Pro models redundant.

Apple is afraid of this, but consumers would love it. Apple isn't always making decisions purely based on what would delight consumers. This is a dangerous road to walk and erodes brand equity over time. I suspect next year's 17 would have 120Hz on the regular 17 but that's just a hunch. Hopefully Apple bumps up the refresh on the pro to 165Hz or 240Hz.

 

[Treborray]

In returning my 16 pro already

 

[sp44]

In returning my 16 pro already

Why is that? What do you have now?

 

[Treborray]

Why is that? What do you have now?

I have the 16 Pro Desert Titanium and the 13 Pro. The 13 Pro is so good I can’t let it go. Soon as I bought the 16 Pro this morning there was like no excitement. It was really weird. I’ve been playing with it all day and really not impressed by anything other than the speakers.

The color of the phone out the box threw me off. I watched so many reviews prior to purchasing. The phone always looks better on camera. I really don’t like the color other than the bezels

 

[jetlagged]

I'm stuck in an iPhone limbo - my 15 Pro Max is great, but the 16 Pro Max is seducing me. Problem is, my current phone's value is dropping faster than a skydiver without a parachute. Should I sell now and get $900 or hold on for dear life and end up with $250 four years later - ugh, either way, I'm losing.

 

[bondr006]

I just don't understand the amount of perplexity and angst over phones, of all things...but apparently a lot of people here are in this boat, if these threads are any indicator. There are certainly much bigger things in life to be perplexed and anxious about than should I upgrade or what iPhone to get. It's just a phone for pity's sake. Come on people!

 

[d5aqoëp]

I will upgrade my Wife’s 13 Pro to 16 Pro. 3 yrs is healthier same phone usage. She wants the new Dynamic island. AI will help her in her work in drafting legal documents.