For those who have decided not to get an iphone, or who have returned one..

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Anthony8720, Jul 11, 2007.

  1. Anthony8720 macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2005
    I just returned my iPhone. I had hardware problems on two, in a row, and the AT&T coverage around here wasn't worth the hassle. I have since returned to verizon. I got the new chocolate phone (no iphone, but pretty sweet), and have started the inevitable comparison to my previous device. I know having an iPhone is pretty cool, but consider what I have noticed about my new chocolate (which cost me $250 and that includes 4gigs of storage and stereo bluetooth earphones).

    -music storage-4gigs (and it's micro sd, so you can carry extra around with you)

    -internet-mobile web 2.0 (not even close to safari), but you can access most of the info you want on a mobile device.

    -photos-again, 4 gigs of storage (have to work a little harder to put them on there of course)

    -Bluetooth-connects with virtually everything, and even has stereo bluetooth.

    -camera-1.3 megs, but also has zoom, and several settings to play around with. And you can even record videos with sound AND send them to people.

    -messaging-email, picture and video messaging.

    -Video- This is the biggest surprise for me. The iPhone streams youtube. With any verizon phone, you can access vcast and stream tons of content from dozens of tv channels. I woke up this morning, and instead of using the accuweather widget to find out what the day was going to be like. In about 30 seconds i was watching the accuweather video broadcast for the northeast region...waaaay better than my iphone weather checking routine.

    -maps- Yes, google maps are pretty, and very easy to use. But not having gps was a bit of a bummer. VZ Navigator is frigging unbelievable. It uses the gps in the phone to tell where you are, and bang, it's like walking around or driving with a nuvi on your cell phone..i didn't think i was going to be this impressed. You can even search for say.."seafood", and then call one of the results with one click....sound familiar?

    Data network-EV-DO....which you all know, is slightly faster than edge.

    So the moral of the story....yes, i wish the iphone had worked out for me. But all and all, im not missing too much, and i have actually gained a little in some places. So if you're like me and are going to wait a while to jump on the band wagon, there are more than acceptable alternatives out there, and I think I found one. And yeah, the new chocolate gets the oooohs and ahhhs that i used to get with the iphone....just not as many. Good luck!
  2. defeated macrumors regular

    Feb 22, 2007
    if compatible, try opera mini 4 (in beta now). Closest mobile browser I know to iSafari is picsel, but you can't buy it anywhere :eek:. Opera 4, once stable, would be close to iSafari. full page view, zoom in/out, etc.
  3. marksman macrumors 603


    Jun 4, 2007
    Didn't your mom tell you apples are better for you than chocolate?
  4. Karpfish macrumors 6502a


    Sep 24, 2006
    forgetting to include the extra costs for web, then for vcast? Verizon sucks.
  5. Sobe macrumors 68000


    Jul 6, 2007
    Wash DC suburbs
    I'm glad you're happy with your phone, but unless it was too incredible to ignore, I simply couldn't buy a phone named "chocolate"

    But hey that's just me...
  6. DiamondMac macrumors 68040


    Aug 11, 2006
    Washington, D.C.
    I live in a "Chocolate" City :D
  7. Anthony8720 thread starter macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2005
    Ummm $15 a month for Unlimited mobile web and vcast services. It hardly sucks. I pay less a month for all these featurs than i did for my iphone service. Again, im not an iphone basher, just pointing out where i have been and where i am now in the mobile world. And verizon does not suck. One thing i forgot to point out is that this vx8550 (sounds better than "new chocolate") has full, uncrippled bluetooth. I have obex, and tethering. Pretty cool.

    Trust me, I am still not over the name "chocolate". The thing is black, like many other black phones....why is this the one to be called chocolate? I don't think it's right.

    That sounds pretty sweet. Thanks, i'll check it out.
  8. Sobe macrumors 68000


    Jul 6, 2007
    Wash DC suburbs
    If you could nibble on it when you were hungry I might consider it...
  9. KauaiBruce macrumors 6502a


    Jul 5, 2007
    Kauai, HI
    Wow. I read a bunch of Anthonys posts from other threads and was reminded of the old Newton threads several years ago.

    He has all of the problems that people had as hot buttons against the Newtons. Dead Pixels and Screen Bleed.

    Now this thread has more details for the Chocolate at Verizon than on the Verizon site. Just seems a bit suspicious to me.

    Maybe he is real but his messages are so well crafted they sound like they are being made by a marketing team at Verizon. All of his messages are amazingly diplomatic and designed to not get confrontational with iPhone lovers.

    Maybe it is just me but if I had as many problems as he says he had I would be screaming bloody murder and not writing pretty reviews of other phones. I am pretty sure I would not have so quickly bought another expensive phone.
  10. Anthony8720 thread starter macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2005
    Ummm. Maybe I'm just realistic? I love apple. I have been a macrumors member since 05. I have converted everymember of my family, and most of my friends. I was posting on here about getting the iphone months, if not years before it's release. I personally was not happy with my purchase. And felt the same rev-a syndrom that i did when i bought the first, macbook, macbook pro, and intel based imac. So I decided to wait for once. I will never bash apple, i was just telling others who made the same decision i did that it's not all that bad to wait. I see no reason to jump on apple, since this is their first cell phone experience. Maybe im just being mature about this. Apple and at&t kindly refunded my money, and I view this as good business for both companies. Geeze, I'm just trying to help others in my situation. And, btw, I am a small business owner of a company that has absolutely nothing to do with communications at all. Thanks.

    And just for the record, my current phone cost 150 before accessories. I would hardly call that expensive.
  11. EnderTW macrumors 6502

    Jun 30, 2007
    shh, let kauai bruce who has only been a member since july of 07, bash you, a long time apple veteran.

    I am with you man, Apple is a good company. All these people who just bought the iphone think they know about Apple more than the people who been supporting from before the iphone was ever conceived.

    I too returned it but for other reasons, need a more business oriented phone.

    I will wait for revision 2.
  12. Madame Defarge macrumors regular

    Jul 6, 2007
    Bay Area
    Before the 29th it felt crazy, not to buy an iPhone

    I lusted after an iPhone as soon as it was announced. My first take on it was that I could get rid of my Palm tungsten, which has always been problematic with Macs. And since my 2nd gen iPod was starting to act up, the the timing seemed perfect.

    My Motorola phone has good points and bad, one of the best being that, paired with a Motorola bluetooth device that clips to my car's visor, I can talk hands free, without a headset, and it has voice dialing. And it was free.

    My carrier is T-Mobile, which I'm very happy with. 3 dropped calls in 6 months and good customer support. No complaints. Even so, I was willing to switch to AT&T, which I have a lot of issues with, just for the iPhone.

    But the various tech issues reported here and on the discussion boards at Apple support, have been off-putting. The amount of negative feedback, has been surprising and overwhelming. It never occurred to me that there would be so many problems.

    The iPhone's PDA function seems to be weak, and I'm not talking about the inability of using Word or Excel, but more basic stuff, like notes, to do's, games like Scrabble and Sudoku. On my Palm, I have a French dictionary which is very handy when traveling, and even a Zagat guide.

    While the iPhone is revolutionary and very cool, after nearly 14 days of reported bugs and issues, I'm happy I waited. I'll take another look when the 2nd generation comes out.


    15 year Mac user
    iMac G5, Intel MacBook Pro, iPod, Shuffle
  13. Cleverboy macrumors 65816


    May 25, 2007
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    Let's Take a Tour of Verizon Deals!

    That's cool you found something that worked out for you. Bravo for articulating it well. The state of things on the wireless front is indeed fraught with lots of problems, however. We're the first leg into a whole new battle for the hearts and minds of users. It's hilarious. Lots of people criticised Apple for not releasing its plans earlier, yet I can tell you for certain why they didn't. Verizon carefully constructed a "battle plan" against iDay, that included a laundry list of responses to iPhone's positioning. More time equaled more competition. In response to the iPhone, people have also been saying that if you just wave around the name, and suggest that you may even break your contract (and pay the fee) that mobile carriers have been wiling to even halve your monthly fees and throw in tons of goodies. It's funny.

    The serious note I'm struck by, is how little people have compared existing plans across networks. Consumer advocates are only NOW starting to really feel the injustice of manufacturers that establish exclusivity deals with one network (as if this never happened before), and yet people keep staring at the microcosm and TOTALLY missing the big picture.


    I decided to go check this out and kick the tires.

    Apple has presented a UNIVERSAL big picture plan. An unmoving target.
    All of these other cell phone networks continue to juggle and bob and weave. I just looked at Verizon and saw the deal that you mention (after entering my zipcode, which confirms I qualify, for now).

    "The new chocolate by LG, Sweeter than ever." Includes 4GB memory and Bluetooth stereo headset. $249.99. Then it adds, "after $50 online discount, and new 2 yr activation". Free shipping with online orders. Great. A 2G Chocolate was also available at $150. The data plan looks like its $59 per month. Which includes the following:
    They note that the "music essentials" kit that you're getting is retail priced at $199, which includes the 4GB Memory card, Bluetooth Stereo Headset, USB Cable, and Music Software. So, things look like they're pretty good. I scroll down and they look even nicer. Apparently $59 is the 900 minutes plan, includes Unlimited Nights and Weekends (9pm-6am). Then I see the "VCAST" feature. While the phone FULLY SUPPORTS it, it appears clear that the $59/mo. service DOES NOT INCLUDE the VCAST VPack. Verizon describes declining Vpak with the following paragraph:
    Sounds like a friend of mine. Without a data plan, he tried to send a movie to his girlfriend once and it end up costing him $10. So, I juggle the plan abit... I set the minutes at 450 (like my iPhone plan, but marked at $39.99) and keep the VCAST on (for dear life). The adjustment sets that plan at 450 minutes, put without anything like rollover minutes, that's not a whole lot (though like AT&T it appears Verizon calls its included mobile-to-mobile "IN" calling).

    Activation fees are $35 per line, and early termination is $175 per line (possibly MORE for business users). They rattle off all the regulatory charges and other fees very clearly in the additional information block.

    After taking too long to choose however, the page timeouts for the second time, but this time, I can't seem to pull the deal back up again. I search around Verizon's website, and it no longer appears. Going into their standard phone area shows me the same Chocalate phones, for $150. Selecting one, the price then shows at $99 after online discount. I add back in the Music Essentials Kit, with 4GB at $199 - $50 online discount ($149). It it sounds like its back to the $249 deal I saw earlier. --Except that now my plan is $74.95 for the same 450 minutes I'd had earlier! I click around to attempt to change options, but it looks like they're dead set on ONLY showing me $59.99 for 450 minutes, instead of the previous deal.

    Annoyed, I decide to duck my current "session" and Firefox, and login under another browser entirely. I fire up Internet Explorer and hit the following URL again:
    There's the deal again! On the homepage. I click it. Once again, I can subtract $20, for going with 450 minutes and add the VPak for $15, so that I'm not paying for EACH and EVERY text message.

    Backing up and confident that I have a path that will work again (even if I need to change computers), I decide to go check out the features.
    • Ringtones - Standard fare.
    • Video Clips - Sports, news and weather information. Seems useful.
    • Ringback Tones - Let callers hear your ringtones. Nice idea.
    • Mobile TV - It's not "real tv", but its good. For now, its CBS mobile, Comedy Central mobile, ESPN mobile, Fox Mobile, mTV, NBC2G,NBC news 2GO, Nickelodean. A very nice limited selection, but some great stuff. Colbert Report, South Park, Chappelle's Show, 60 minutes, Jericho, Late Night... on and on. Definitely a lot of content to have popping in on your phone in any case. The broadcasting is done to a schedule, and its not clear if any of it is "on demand". I'm assuming not.
    • Music - Some nice featured artists and solid features. Looks like a great way to explore and manage music. doesn't look "iPod" nice, but it seems useable.
    • Mobile Web & Email - Unfortunately, nothing I'd want on a screen size this small, without a qwerty keyboard (even a virtual one).
    • Games - Looks like some solid mobile games are available. Some 3D, others just well known like Monopoly. Crummy screen-size, but solid games.
    • Tools & Applications - Most of these looked like the same garbagey mobile lobotomies I always saw. I decided to zip right to VW Navigator, which Anthony mentioned. It confirms "FREE with Amer. Choice Premium Plan", and the right phone, but otherwise $2.99/1 day purchase, or $9.99 monthly. Verizon has a demo page here. It looks nice to do everything from the GPS location, but the interface, as can be expected looks very sucky to me. Claustrophobic and requiring too many button clicks and too much thinking to enter information and read it boxed up and truncated.
    • Wallpapers - Seems to be some nice functionality and preset galleries available online.
    At the end of the day however... I've decided I've HAD IT with small-screened, lame-ass phones like the LG Chocolate. I don't want to need a separate PDA, so I look into what Verizon can cut me on something like the new Treo 700wx. $399 after $100 online discount. Not bad. Here it is again though. The PLANS. Now, 450 minutes is going to cost me $79.99. It's suddenly jumped $20 for a standard plan. For 900 minutes, its $99. I begin to check details... 15 cents for each message received and/or sent on text messaging. Across the top it says "Email", another tab says "Email & Messaging", and I click on that. I now have NEW options that include UNLIMITED messaging. Great! Only the 450 minute starts at $99. 900 minutes is up to $119. Wow. My iPhone plan is $59 for 450/200 minutes and $79 for 900/unlimited. Instead of $79, Verizon would charge me $119.99 (clears throat) PER MONTH!!! All of these plans on Verizon include the following:
    I switch tracks... I see a Moto Q is also on the menu. How's that go? $229 after $100 online discount, and afterwards, a $50 mail-in rebate. Cool. 450 minutes start at $79 (+$20 than my iPhone plan), and they recommend a $109 per month plan for 1350. Curiously, the included features change:
    Where'd "Unlimited Text, Picture, Video & Instant Messaging" go? How odd... I guess that must be "limited" on these Q plans. I back out and choose a Verizon Wireless XV6700, running Windows Mobile. It's $299 after online discount of $100. Same deal as the Motorola. I look at the omission again. Hang on... not just picture and video and instant messaging is gone... but TEXTing too? Not unlimited? So... somehow "text messaging" isn't unlimited on Smartphone plans, its likely PER text again. How under-handed. Nasty, nasty.

    It's with a slow, dawning comprehension however, that I realize all the great VCAST features I'd been looking at earlier, aren't in the slightest way available on one of these PDA phones like the Treo or Blackberry. Only the "smallscreen" phones that have driven me nuts for years, offering limited features, and little of the FUN of truly browsing the REAL Internet.

    If you really just need a phone with neat "suped-up" features... it sounds like Verizon has some excellent, and somewhat competitive options. If you want something with a larger screen, and more flexibility and freedom, like a PDA or Smartphone... Verizon is a HUGE up-charge in pricing and not much to offer in VALUE, and all the extra CONTENT features of the network go away, except the fast EV-DO speed. Bum-MER.

    Again, Anthony... good luck. After looking through all this... the iPhone is definitely MUCH much much much MUCH better for people like me, who really like the idea of having a REAL Internet browser anywhere I go, and full-scale applications that aren't like I'm eating a full course dinner through a straw. I sit my iPhone next to be desk cycling pictures, which look GORGEOUS. Looks like there are some "OK" music playing features in there, but for the most part, they're no where near as flexible in the full RANGE of available titles on iTunes/Audible for music and audiobooks (unless you're willing to go back to CDs).

    I mean... really. After this little trip, I'm astonished by what people still consider valuable. I'm not going to compromise big-screen REAL apps and media for the mini-screen again, even if the damn thing can raise the dead. It's nice that people have the option though. :rolleyes:

    If Verizon can get me a Blackberry Curve, Motorola Q, Treo 700, or iPhone with UNLIMITED Internet at something approaching $59-$79, we'll certainly be in the ballpark of reasonable. Anything higher sounds like its on crack to me.

    ~ CB
  14. Nall macrumors regular

    Aug 15, 2003
    MobileSafari is way better than Opera Mini, which is in turn way better than most of the included phone browsers.

    However, since Verizon likes to disable lots of the fun features on their phones, you will most likely not be able to get it. :/
  15. dav macrumors 6502

    Jun 29, 2004
    The iPhone has some shortcomings that need to be fixed before I ever seriously consider one.

    Bluetooth File Transfer
    Sync via Bluetooth
    Text Messaging over Bluetooth (see BluePhoneElite)
    Text messages to multiple recipients
    Better camera
    Video Recording

    My current phone (K610i) can do all of these things, and it is a low-mid range Sony Ericsson phone. While not as much eye candy, I can browse google maps, use opera mini, and carry around a few gigabytes of songs with me. Not flashy multitouch, but very useable.

    I would much rather have one of the new offerings from SE before an iPhone. THOSE were some seriously impressive phones. I am continually impressed by the phones that Sony Ericsson produces.

    The successor to the K850 is rumored to have a 6MP camera, GPS, and VGA (640x480) 30fps video recording. Simply stunning.
  16. iAmLegend macrumors regular


    Jul 8, 2007
    And thanks to the wonder which is the free market, you can have as many other phones as you'd like.
  17. tjpyles macrumors newbie

    Jul 4, 2007
    Very interesting post. If you read between the lines of why Verizon said they passed on the iPhone and read this post, I think you can clearly see a connection. I believe that Apple wanted to change too much of Verizon's ways of doing business. Apple truly made the process of activation and selecting a plan something simple and straight forward on AT&T. This almost seems to be antithetical to Verizon's way of doing business (BTW, I am a Verizon switcher) Apple tried to bring their philosophy of doing business (good and bad) to the cell phone market. AT&T apparently was willing to bend a little while Verizon was not.

    I do think there may be a bad side. Many are expecting Apple to update the iPhone with additional features. While I think that they will update many features, Apple does like to keep heavy control of their systems. I would love to see the ability to access the system in a Finder/Explorer sort of way, but I will not be surprised if this is a feature that Apple never gives up. The same for true third party apps. Not saying it won't happen and I am completely happy with my out of box experience, but I sure wouldn't buy this phone expecting these issues to be fixed.
  18. feelthefire macrumors 6502a

    Jun 13, 2006
    Opera browsers are only available for WM devices, as far as I know. They don't work on regular phones, whether on verizon or not.

    And as far as the service costs on Verizon smartphones...well, you get what you pay for. 3G internet and better voice service. They couldn't pay me to go back to AT&T.
  19. rockstarjoe macrumors 6502a


    Jun 2, 2006
    washington dc
    Sorry, but I believe I live in Chocolate City. But you guys can borrow the name if you like.
  20. defeated macrumors regular

    Feb 22, 2007
    just want to make sure you know OM4 is 90% different than OM3
    no, actually OM is available for any phone supportting JAVA. Symian, Palm, or WM
  21. Anthony8720 thread starter macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2005
    I must say I agree with most of what you said. However, the 79.99 iphone plan does not include unlimited text, still only 200. And thats 200 sms at that, no pictures or video. My current voice plan through verizon is 79.99 and includes unlimited text. And yes, verizon has expensive plans, but thats because they put more money into building and maintaining their network than any other carrier. So you get what you pay for. And, you also need to try vz navigator, it is much much better than the map application on the iphone, its just not as fun because you cant flick stuff around. You can even text people through it. So if you are meeting someone somewhere, and they need directions, you just text them the location. They will get both your location and the place they are going. All they need to do is click on the destination in the text, and their phone displays a detailed map and the speakerphone plays turn by turn directions...with street names! You can just set the phone down and go by sound alone. It is waay more useful than google maps.

    And I have no idea why people keep saying they need full scale real apps and that is why they got an iPhone. The only real app on the iphone is safari, and developers are forced to use it to make their own "applications". The only apps you're going to get are the ones apple gives(sells) you. Oh yeah, did i mention i have aim on my phone too? The iphone does not have full featured email...which is amazing. Sure looking at a single email is pretty, but try being a business user that gets 100+ emails a day. The email app is pretty useless at that point. But still, i cant really complain about that. Apple never called this a smart phone or a pda, just merely an evolution in the way we approach cell phones.

    And adding to what you and others have said about verizon not carrying the iphone. I think it really comes down to one thing...vcast music. As a business, verizon should want everyone to buy their most expensive phone. If this was the iphone, that would mean that their high end customers would no longer use their music download service, and in their theoretical perfect world, they would lose a ton of money. I really think thats why they passed. Access to content from other places doesn't fit their business model, but thats pretty much everyone elses standpoint too. It's easy for atnt, because they don't have anything to offer you in the first place.

    I do find the recent headlines interesting about carrier exclusivity. I have a feeling a lot of politicians want an iphone, and just realized it sucks that they cant have a choice in phone because of behind the scenes deals between manufacturers and service providers. Perhaps things will change here in the states soon, and everybody can buy exactly what they want...imagine that.
  22. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    If you've paid attention to discussion forums at Apple support, there are pages and pages of people complaining about bugs in every one of the products you have listed in your pseudo-signature there... :confused:
  23. iAmLegend macrumors regular


    Jul 8, 2007
    Yeah, but It's not as much fun to criticize a product you already bought. Besides, the iPhone is really the only product to have flaws ever..didn't you read that article in Verizon Magazine?
  24. KauaiBruce macrumors 6502a


    Jul 5, 2007
    Kauai, HI
    Just to defend myself a little. I am an ORIGINAL Apple veteran. I had a NEWTON! I paid those big prices for the first 3 mac models and even played with a Lisa. I paid over $2K and used connections at Computerland Corporate to be the first consumer in California to get an actual HARD DRIVE. That expensive hard drive was an ungodly 10MEGS. No one then could imagine using that much memory. (I think it was that big. That was a LOT of years ago).

    If you could find the old Newton newsgroups you would find me there. I am just new to this board.

    Unfortunately, I finally had to move to the PC. My company got bought by Compaq and I got great discounts. I got increasingly frustrated that there was so little software for the Mac. I worked just a mile from the Apple Store on the Apple Campus and even they did not have that much software to sell.

    Maybe I will return to Apple someday now that I rarely play games but I am not sure if I can handle that one button mouse (Or is that FINALLY gone?) I am also not quite sure I would want to have their hardware with no Apple stores where I live.

    Sorry, did not mean to bash. I am not happy with Verizon and that post was a giant Verizon Ad.
  25. iAmLegend macrumors regular


    Jul 8, 2007
    You have nothing to apologize for.

    It WAS a giant Verizon Ad, and pointless to post that much information about another product in an iPhone forum, especially when nobody asked for it.

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