For those who were here during SL launch

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Lion (10.7)' started by frnak, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. frnak macrumors member

    frnak

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    #1
    Did the forum fill with all of these complaints just like right now for Lion? Just curious how severe the problems are now and then.

    Thanks
     
  2. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    London
    #2
    I think it was worse with SL. Justifiably in my opinion.
     
  3. hexonxonx macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Location:
    Denver Colorado
    #3
    Yes, I remember lots of complaints and people switching back to Leopard. It's this way with any new major release, OSX and Windows.
     
  4. vitzr macrumors 68030

    vitzr

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Location:
    California
    #4
    I remember that it was indeed less of a target for complainers. What's the difference? Today we have more newbies & gadget people using iPhones that were not around during the SL rollout.

    Now that we have a huge population of Apple users and "experts", they tend to complain louder, feel more entitled, and are very quick to be judgmental.

    Personally I think Apple is doing just as well with Lion as they did with Snow Leopard. It's far too soon to judge.
     
  5. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #5
    Yes lots of complaints stating how apple truly screwed up. Too many bugs, too many things were not working. I don't see too much difference with this one exception.

    With Snow Leopard apple did not make too many consumer facing changes, that is most of the work was under the hood. With Lion apple made a lot of changes that we see. So there's even more opportunity for us to complain :)
     
  6. Steve's Barber macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    #6
    I've been complaining since July but Lion still hasn't changed. I recently came to the conclusion it was just time to move on and use it for the sake of my iDevices and iCloud.

    You will too... eventually. :D
     
  7. scottsjack macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Location:
    Arizona
    #7
    Correct answer. Snow Leopard had lots of bugs just like much many Apple's new software releases have. In the end SL turned out to be as advertized, a finely tuned and refined Leopard.

    On the other hand Lion is an attempt to dumb down and tabletize SL. That's the point of contention, not the amount of bugs in the .0 release.
     
  8. sidewinder macrumors 68020

    sidewinder

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Northern California
    #8
    That's bull. I am as comfortable on the command line of Unix systems as I am with a mouse on a Mac or PC. I see no "dumbing down".

    I see changes.

    I like what has been done to Spaces/Expose with Mission Control. I actually use those features now.

    I appreciate the new document management system. I like being able to easily have multiple versions of a single document in a single file. This is much better than being forced to into having multiple files. I can still easily do that if I want.

    I like have a less crowded dock and Launchpad makes that possible.

    S-
     
  9. MartiNZ macrumors 65816

    MartiNZ

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    #9
    Gosh, interesting to know. I guess as people tend to only come here when they have issues, it seems different if you never did. For me this is the first release in OS X history with which I have had actually had issues with features; previously I've only complained about proper bugs, and certainly I didn't realise there were such complaints about SL at release. Colour me surprised.
     
  10. scottsjack macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Location:
    Arizona
    #10
    Not bull at all;
    Hidden user Library
    Save As gone
    Versions mucking things up whether you want it to or not
    Goofy tablet-like Launchpad
    Touch screen scroll direction
    Difficulty in trashing apps
    Scroll bars tiny and hidden by default
    Cute page-turning Address Book
    No back up CDs
    Newbie-like Finder sidebar
     
  11. sidewinder macrumors 68020

    sidewinder

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Northern California
    #11
    Still all bull....

    Only non-power users couldn't easily fix that.

    Not gone...just different. It's called "Duplicate". Also, as has been explained to you previously, this is up to the app developer.

    Again, something new offering more power.

    Plenty of people, power users and not, find it useful...and something you never have to use if you don't want to.

    Maybe. But I would argue it is "natural" if you consider you are manipulating the windows instead of the window controls.

    Really? I would love to hear this.

    Not dumbed down, moved out of the way. They can be turned on easily enough ig you can't handle it.

    Now you are reaching....

    Cost saving move that matches up well with the direction software distribution is going. Recovery partition is a nice touch. What this has to do with "dumbing down", I'll never see.

    Newbie? How about cleaned up and still configurable as to content.

    You failed.......big time.

    S-
     
  12. AnneStuarto238 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    #12
    only errors - no problem :cool:

    iMacPad - do not want! ;)
     
  13. QuarterSwede macrumors G3

    QuarterSwede

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    #13
    I agree with everything you said and particularly like your Finder response. Finder is exactly the same as it was (no missing functionality). I take that back, it's more powerful than it was. The sorting options alone are worth the upgrade. Column browsing (while a little buggy) is brilliant when sorted by date.

    Almost everything people don't like change wise is because they don't understand that Apple simply renamed, hid or moved something and the feature has even more options than it used to. Save as is now Duplicate, Versions saves all changes you've made (not just the one you save) and so on.
     
  14. Taz Mangus macrumors 68040

    Taz Mangus

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    #14
    Once and for all just add ~/Library to the finder siderbar and be done with it. This is what I did. Even though ~/Library is hidden it can still be accessed like always from Terminal. ~/Library is only hidden from finder. So I don't see why you need to constantly complain about this. Some people find solutions to problems instead of dwelling on them. The hidden user Library inconvienced me for about 15 minutes.
     
  15. phpmaven macrumors 68040

    phpmaven

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Location:
    San Clemente, CA USA
    #15
    It's the same with the release of every OS from Apple or MS or anybody else. I've been around for them all. There are a minority who have problems and make a lot of noise, whilst the majority are running just fine and don't post anything at all, or when they do, they get shouted down by the minority that they are fan boys and blah, blah, blah. The uninitiated always get the impression that there is a huge problem.

    When youv'e been around computers since before the Commodore 64 like I have, it's easier to put things into perspective. :)
     
  16. MartiNZ macrumors 65816

    MartiNZ

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    #16
    The complaint is about the idiocy of hiding it in the first place - why suddenly after 10 years of OS X development? And why revert the user's decision to make it visible with every update? It makes as little sense as autosave/versions. It makes as little sense as iCal's and Address Book's new looks.

    In itself it is just one small scary step on Apple's road to hiding the file system completely a la iOS and having us rely entirely on the very dangerous and very badly implemented autosave system.

    A solution to the immediate problem is one thing; seeing where that 'problem' leads and being very worried about the future is quite another.

    At least the people I can talk to in person can be saved from the coming apocalypse [/overdramatisation]. I am certainly telling friends to NOT go Lion though.
     
  17. sidewinder macrumors 68020

    sidewinder

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    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Northern California
    #17
    That's ignorant and ridiculous!

    S-
     
  18. xraydoc macrumors demi-god

    xraydoc

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    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    192.168.1.1
    #18
    Or just hold down Option when clicking on the Finder's Go menu. Library will appear in the list.

    Easy peazy.
     
  19. MartiNZ macrumors 65816

    MartiNZ

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    #19
    Yeah no, not in the slightest. Said people hold me as the Apple fanboy and know that if I am not happy with the OS, something is seriously wrong - as I said, this is the first time I've complained about 'features' in 10 years using OS X. Neither of your adjectives belong anywhere near what I'm saying.

    We stand at a crossroads.
     
  20. sidewinder macrumors 68020

    sidewinder

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Northern California
    #20
    Yes, all should hold you up as the bellwether of Mac OS releases. What an ego.

    People should judge for themselves the appropriateness of a Mac OS X release.

    I've been in the computer industry since 1980 and have used all the major and most minor personal computer operating systems. I find Mac OS X 10.7.x quite nice. I am no fanboy, but I an extremely happy with the new OS and I am having no problems with it.

    The vast majority of people out there are not, repeat not, having problems with Mac OS X 10.7.x. Just because you have issues means all your friends will too? That is what is ignorant and ridiculous!

    S-
     
  21. Benbikeman macrumors 6502a

    Benbikeman

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Location:
    London, England
    #21
    Yep, you see the same with any major release on any platform, or with any app.

    Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth and complaining that things have changed and are therefore worse. Three months later, even those who were complaining the loudest are quietly enjoying the new features.
     
  22. MartiNZ macrumors 65816

    MartiNZ

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    #22
    Wow. Scary stuff that you think this way, and that you think I think this way. One gobsmacked me :eek: :(.

    My point: Mac-using friends of mine look to me as the fanboy, the main Mac Geek in their lives, and some actually waited to see what happened for me with upgrading to Lion. I never asked this of them; nor do I expect this of anyone. If I had my way they would all have joined me for an install-fest on day one ... just a shame it was released at 1AM NZ time.

    Anyway, as it was the case, I gave them my reactions, and they formed their judgements accordingly. Yes, my experiences with Lion's features were pretty negative on the whole, but hey, one such person upgraded anyway, and has a different usage model from my own, and seems to be doing okay - he doesn't look as deeply as I do into the OS, or expect things to be quite as polish-perfect as I do in OS X. Some of the others probably weren't that serious about upgrading anyway.


    Your reading of my point: EVERYONE should wait for my reaction to Lion before upgrading, and thus no one should upgrade!

    That, I mean THAT, would fit your adjectives well, and would equate to quite an ego. My story? No, that speaks far more truly to my own, which I feel could actually do with a boost a lot of the time ... oh well :rolleyes:. I'd best get out of this forum; no longer a Lion user.
     
  23. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Orlando
    #23
    Snow Leopard justifiable had far more outraged posts, because a small percentage of people (granted, far fewer than were outraged) actually lost data, or at least access to it for a while. Leopard was similar, Tiger probably worse than Lion (though I think it was a little better when it came out than Lion, although I haven't experienced any significant issues myself). Prior to that there were always major things needing fixing early on, but in a way this was all still new territory for Apple at the time I think. I mean, 10.0 was even released as a public beta, which they haven't done in that way since. I think we're seeing a lot of overreacting with Lion, especially over the iOS-inspired features, which is causing more hatred than it deserves by a long-shot. Some people are definitely experiencing issues, but fewer than are complaining.

    That's just the nature of these types of forums, though.

    jW
     
  24. dyn macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Location:
    .nl
    #24
    We can do that but the biggest problem is people relying on technology. People will not save their work any more in any applications because they don't need to on their Mac. And then they are using an OS X application that doesn't support this or Windows (like at work) where this system isn't supported -> bye bye data.

    The other thing is the amount of writes to disk. This system has the potential to increase writes to disk quite a lot. Even with the way things currently are with ssd's you might run the risk of killing NAND cells and thus your ssd in the end. Especially if you use a small capacity ssd because it is the cheapest you could get (which most people do). It would have been nice if Apple were to mention at least something about this but there isn't. It is just guessing now.

    The versioning system itself is quite pointless for business users since they will either use some sort of document management system (Sharepoint or something) or exchange it via mail. Versions in Lion will only version control the changes you did to that particular file. If you get a new one it will save them with that file (if you were to rename it or copy it over the other). If you use your own version control system this is also pointless. Multiple versions in 1 file is only meant as a backup. If you did something wrong you can return to a previous version without the changes you made. If you duplicate the version it will create a new document and save it as a separate file which will have its own versions. Which is exactly what any kind of version control system will do so you'll end up with version control within version control.

    It would have been better if autosave/versions was a checkbox in sysprefs just like application resume is. And it also would have been better if Apple used terminology the average user actually understands (save as vs duplicate...lots of questions about that). I would definitely not call autosave/versions a thing that dumbs down stuff because users have to be familiar with the principle of version control which most are not.

    The other stuff are just minor changes to the OS to make it look more polished and to make it more easy to use. I must say that most of them do just that. The only problem I have is autosave/versions which seems to make things like saving your changes harder than it was before. Like with any change people will complain as if their life depends on it. After 6 months or so the dust has settle and most people will be happy with the new (if the quality is good).
     
  25. gumblecosby macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    #25
    Leopard kernel panicked a couple of times till 10.5.2.
    Snow leopard ran warmer with less battery life till around 10.6.4 for me.
    Graphics deficiencies in SL were similar to the way Lion is now. They were improved later.

    All of these were clean installs.
     

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