Ford Taurus returns?!

[quagmire]

A couple of things come to mind.
First, the American "Big 3" have been and continue to be obsessed with quarterly profits rather than market share. This mentality saves money short term, which goes into the pockets of the people at the top of the company, and results in long term reliability problems that come back to haunt the company.

Ummm... profit is more important then marketshare. Why have 70% marketshare, but be losing millions every quarter? Now the money that the company earns should go back to the product instead of the head execs. No doubt about that. But, this isn't just limited to the Big 3. A lot of American companies make huge profits and instead of going back to the product, they go to execs( cough Exxon cough).

Second, the Big 3 use an outdated, top-down management style where decisions are made by people too far removed from the place where quality is installed in a car, such as on the assembly line. Toyota and Honda, on the other hand, solicit input from even the lowliest of their workers, especially those on the assembly line, for ways to improve. There is even a term in Japanese that every worker is trained to understand that roughly translates to: "Continuous improvement". This term is not meant as a fad or to garner quick profits, but is the company's genuine attitide. And it works.

Agreed as well. GM still has a bureaucracy which they need to get rid of. Chevy will no doubt try to block Saturn's revival, etc. GM does need to let the engineers and designers go free instead of holding back their potential. Looks like they are slowly with products like the Camaro, Solstice, Sky, the CTS, and Malibu.

Toyotas and Hondas aren't perfect, and there is no reason whatsoever that Americans can't build a car that is every bit as good as the competition, but it is more about attitude than brains and ability. I am a proud American, and the day that GM makes the best car available, I'll be the first in line.

Agree, the Americans should be able to build better cars then the Japanese. If we can engineer kick butt military weapons, etc we should be able to do cars. But, GM( and Ford) won't be making class leading cars overnight. It will take a couple of more years. Right now they are at least competitive with the Camry and Accord with the Aura and upcoming Malibu. Hopefully, future products will offer some class leading things, but time will tell.

 

[Abstract]

Sorry, but your closed mindedness and blindness against GM( and Ford) and bias towards Toyota and Honda is disturbing.

I don't agree.

Most people have a wait and see policy when it comes to cars. We can judge performance now, but how can anyone say that reliability and safety is improving unless you wait for 5 years? I want to see values that assess cars after long-term use.

Again, my mum will probably never look at buying a Taurus. However, if the car proves itself reliable over many years, the inside trim doesn't start falling off, etc, then I don't see why she wouldn't. She owned her Taurus for 6 years, and the car was so bad that she couldn't get more than a few thousand dollars for it.

And regarding Toyota's recent recalls, yes they have made a lot of recalls. I know it's frustrating when Toyota is forgiven for making so many recalls when Ford would never be able to get away with it, but within recent memory, Toyota has had a history of reliability, and it's going to be forgiven for a blip in it's history over the past 15 years.

 

[ErikCLDR]

F.O.R.D.

Fix Or Repair Daily

Or Found On Road Dead

My neighbors have a New Ford Expedition, Newer Ford Explorer, New Ford Mustang GT (midlife crisis *cough*), and a 2006 Honda Civic. They apparently like Ford since they had multiple ford SUV's before.

 

[quagmire]

I don't agree.

Most people have a wait and see policy when it comes to cars. We can judge performance now, but how can anyone say that reliability and safety is improving unless you wait for 5 years? I want to see values that assess cars after long-term use.

Again, my mum will probably never look at buying a Taurus. However, if the car proves itself reliable over many years, the inside trim doesn't start falling off, etc, then I don't see why she wouldn't. She owned her Taurus for 6 years, and the car was so bad that she couldn't get more than a few thousand dollars for it.

And regarding Toyota's recent recalls, yes they have made a lot of recalls. I know it's frustrating when Toyota is forgiven for making so many recalls when Ford would never be able to get away with it, but within recent memory, Toyota has had a history of reliability, and it's going to be forgiven for a blip in it's history over the past 15 years.

That is what I meant about the perception won't change anytime soon. The new products have to prove themselves. Which I think they will since my past and current GM vehicles have been reliable. I just didn't take kind to his comment about the suspension at 30K miles and transmission at 60K miles. That was an ignorant( although as I said GM and Ford has earned there POS reputation) comment to say. GM's hydra-matics are one of the most reliable transmissions out there. If they were crap BMW and Bentley wouldn't have been buying them.

I wasn't bashing Toyota for the increased recalls. As I said it is expected for a company that is growing as fast as Toyota is. They still make very good cars and GM and Ford will have a hard time getting buyers away from the Camry and Accord.

 

[obeygiant]

Actually Ford does make my dream car.

 

[quagmire]

Actually Ford does make my dream car.

It's out of production now. So used to make.

 

[obeygiant]

It's out of production now. So used to make.

Dang it!

I'll have to settle for a used one.

 

[Zwhaler]

Actually Ford does make my dream car.

Meh... a 150,000 Ford? I know brand names shouln't matter, but I would much rather own the Corvette Z06 (for half the price, mind you) Which I will admit is hands down the best car made by Chevy. Over the years, it is the one car which they strive to keep on the top. Aside from the disasterous models in the late 70's, they have really done a good job on it in the 2000s. I would definately consider (and most likely end up with) one of those if I was in the market for one.

 

[Zwhaler]

I just didn't take kind to his comment about the suspension at 30K miles and transmission at 60K miles. That was an ignorant( although as I said GM and Ford has earned there POS reputation) comment to say.

What's funny about what I said is that I took that from my friends actual experience. Guess he got a lemon...

 

[quagmire]

What's funny about what I said is that I took that from my friends actual experience. Guess he got a lemon...

But, does it mean you can generalize all of the Big 3's products like that? No. My dad bought a new Corolla back in the 80's. It was a brand new car and at around 20K miles it blew a head gasket. Should I say that at 20K miles Toyota's will need a new head gasket because of my dads one bad experience with it? No.

Again, I am not excusing GM's( and Ford's) past mistakes. They have earned their reputations.

 

[Zwhaler]

But, does it mean you can generalize all of the Big 3's products like that? No. My dad bought a new Corolla back in the 80's. It was a brand new car and at around 20K miles it blew a head gasket. Should I say that at 20K miles Toyota's will need a new head gasket because of my dads one bad experience with it? No.

Again, I am not excusing GM's( and Ford's) past mistakes. They have earned their reputations.

That's true. I shouldn't have made that generalization. I honestly wish GM made cars that are acceptable (at least to me, and my standards aren't that high...) because they have lots of nice cars, but I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole because of how they are made. I would love to own a Chevy Tahoe, but first they gotta lower the price, and second they gotta make em right. But the people on top get rich no matter what, so I honestly don't think they will listen or change their ways. I hate to say it, but I think we will see the death of Ford in the next 50 years

 

[quagmire]

That's true. I shouldn't have made that generalization. I honestly wish GM made cars that are acceptable (at least to me, and my standards aren't that high...) because they have lots of nice cars, but I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole because of how they are made. I would love to own a Chevy Tahoe, but first they gotta lower the price, and second they gotta make em right. But the people on top get rich no matter what, so I honestly don't think they will listen or change their ways. I hate to say it, but I think we will see the death of Ford in the next 50 years

What's wrong with the Tahoe? Sure the previous gen's interior wasn't the best, but GM's trucks and SUV's tend to be very reliable.

 

[Zwhaler]

Ummm... profit is more important then marketshare. Why have 70% marketshare, but be losing millions every quarter? Now the money that the company earns should go back to the product instead of the head execs. No doubt about that. But, this isn't just limited to the Big 3. A lot of American companies make huge profits and instead of going back to the product, they go to execs( cough Exxon cough).

I didn't mean to imply that profits are bad, or that losses are acceptable in exchange for market share. However, some companies will dip into small losses for market share, or break even for market share. This can work very well short term, because then, when they do raise prices a little, they have a larger following, and if the product is good, a loyal following. I agree, it is not just the Big 3, and I agree that executive excesses rather than product improvement/development is a very poor management strategy.

 

[jeffy.dee-lux]

Meh... a 150,000 Ford? I know brand names shouln't matter, but I would much rather own the Corvette Z06 (for half the price, mind you)

Bah! I'd take a Ford GT over two Z06's! Seriously though, the Z06 is an insane car, and even more of a performance bargain, but the GT's in a slightly more insane league, and absolutely stunning in looks, versus the relatively plain vette. Can't really compare those two cars in my opinion, but they're both incredible. Either way, a $150K Ford gets much more respect from me than a $150K Ferrari. The Ferrari just screams "rich guy who doesn't know anything about cars but figured a Ferrari is a safe bet." Well... Ferraris are definitely true driving cars, but I'd say the majority of Ferrari buyers are not true car people. The Ford GT is special!

Okay, but seriously, the 500 has always been a great car. Reasonable automotive journalists who realize not everybody is looking for 300hp and looks that make the car stand out have always recognized the 500 as a good buy. Nevertheless, the magazines written by the leadfoots are loud and the bad word gets out. People who might like the car if they gave it a chance never bother cause these journalists who know better tell them its not worth their time cause it takes a full 8.5 seconds to get to 60.

The new engine will shut out that criticism, now its just the looks. I feel it coulda looked a lot better if maybe it shared more attributes with the Fusion. The new Montego looks a fair deal like the Milan, which is good, but the 500 facelift isn't that great in my opinion. I'll have to see it in person.

I think the new name will put this car on a lot of peoples shopping list. Getting people behind the wheel is the tough part, after that, i think this car has a good fight to put up.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

One of Ford's best sedans of recent years was the Contour (Mondeo), which of course was not appreciated by the American car buyer and subsequently dropped in the domestic market. Nicely proportioned and a good handler with a smooth, powerful V6. The old V6 Taurus SHO wasn't too bad either (I'm not really a fan of the V8 SHO).

But the Five Hundred is just so anonymous - and a little too beefy for good fuel economy. The ride is tuned to your average American butt - floaty and soft. The only good thing about it is the optional AWD. I'm not holding my breath for a big change in wow factor. At least it isn't another SUV/softroader.

 

[takao]

well the problem isn't really the european department who comes out with some good designs from time to time (C-MAX anyone ?) thankfully they have the focus and the fiesta to make up for the pretty bad sales of the mondeo and fusion (the european is again a complete different car)

and then they have a hit and are to lazy to bring it into another country with any success because they change too much etc.


the thing with face lifts increasing in size is quite normal for cars
it can be best seen with VW

first the golf was the smallest car as a replacement for the Käfer
Golf grew to big and VW introduced the Polo
next 2 Generations of Polo and Golf grew again and VW introduced the Lupo as the smallest car (which got replaced by the Fox later)

same with many other companies

 

[Abstract]

the thing with face lifts increasing in size is quite normal for cars
it can be best seen with VW

first the golf was the smallest car as a replacement for the Käfer
Golf grew to big and VW introduced the Polo
next 2 Generations of Polo and Golf grew again and VW introduced the Lupo as the smallest car (which got replaced by the Fox later)

same with many other companies

But really, the Golf has remained competitively small.

The Golf has probably grown. I don't know what it looked like years ago because I'm not that old. However, I don't remember it being extremely small, and I don't recall it being substantially larger than the previous models I've seen in the past. My uncle has a mid-1990s model and it's comparable to the size I see today, even if it's a bit larger in reality.

 

[takao]

But really, the Golf has remained competitively small.

The Golf has probably grown. I don't know what it looked like years ago because I'm not that old. However, I don't remember it being extremely small, and I don't recall it being substantially larger than the previous models I've seen in the past. My uncle has a mid-1990s model and it's comparable to the size I see today, even if it's a bit larger in reality.

the golf 1 is smaller than the latest vw polo not only on the outside but on the inside as well ( 20 centimeters on the outside )
i think the difference is roughly half a meter between golf 1 and golf 5

 

[DakotaGuy]

Well at least they are finally marketing these cars for what they are. Safe, roomy, comfortable family cars. Besides, even if the 500 was a good car no one even knew that Ford built a car called this...along with the Mercury whatever it was.

Probably a good idea to use the Taurus and Sable names for these cars since most people did not even know they existed before this.

Besides they are based on a Volvo platform...so if anything they are probably about the safest family car you could buy.

I think the new Mercury Sable is the best looking version.

It's not a car for me...I would rather have the Fusion or Milan if I was buying a 4 door car from Ford...but for families it might be a good alternative if they want a lot of room and save on fuel over an SUV.

 

[obeygiant]

Maybe the 2007 Ford 500s will be on sale now that they know they'll change the name to Taurus in 2008. Can you say "99/month lease!" anyone?

 

[mrgreen4242]

I drive an '01 Focus that I love. Never any major problems - A/C is out, and brakes wear a little faster than cars I've driven in the past, but starts up every time I turn the key and has requires pretty minimal maintenance.

I think the reason it was such a nice car is that the Ford EU team built it and the inly thing they significantly changed when they brought it to the US was the fenders and couple body panels. You can tell the parts they changed for the US model because most of the car has metric nuts/bolts and a few random things here and there are imperial/standard.

Anyways, I'll drive it for another 3 years, but I'll probably replace it with another Ford (a Ranger this time... home owner now and could use a little truck) unless the Chevy Volt pans out.

 

[carbonmotion]

gm and fords' quality has been improve and toyota and honda are on the decline... besides brand reputation, its really quality for the price.... in that regard, Hyundai is doing an awesome job. But besides THAT, I think as Americans, we tend to buy the car that reflects our personality. If I didn't have a substantial amount of money, I'd probably buy a ford Fusion or a Saturn Aura. If I have a decent job, I'd probably drive high end 3 series (four door). If I had lost of money, I'd probably be driving a Lexus LS. I guess I'm a fan of understated design.

 

[MACDRIVE]

Here's a shot of the 2000 Taurus for comparison purposes.

 

[MACDRIVE]

Some of you might like this one better, I don't know.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68019&stc=1&d=1171092315

 

[quagmire]

Besides they are based on a Volvo platform...so if anything they are probably about the safest family car you could buy.

You sure you want to say that? Below is a totaled Aura. The guy went into a rear end of another car at 45 MPH. The person walked away unscathed. As you can see the front end took the brunt of it and everything from the A-Pillar back is relatively undamaged. I think the Epsilon platform is one of the safest platforms out there. Anyway, I am sure both vehicles are pretty safe. But, you have to love the Ford vs GM rivalry or what remains of it as Toyota is the bigger enemy now!

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/35657