Format a new harddisk on my iMac G4 PowerPC

Discussion in 'iMac' started by Wouter3, May 24, 2019.

  1. Wouter3 macrumors member

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    #1
    Hi, I just installed a new harddrive in my PowerPC and I need to install Leopard on it. The disk is not recognized by the Mac so it needs to be formatted. How can I do this. I tried to connect it through Target boot and using a firewire cable to another G4 PowerPC, but that did not recognize the disk so I couldn't format it from there. Is the only way to format the disk through an external usb-IDE adapter connected to the working PowerPC or could I use some Apple disk utilities form the current diskless PowerPC?
     
  2. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

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    #2
    You don't need any adapters. If you boot from the Leopard DVD then there's an option to run Disk Utility (I think it's in a "Utilities" menu). You can format from there. It's been a long time since I've used Leopard so hopefully this gets you on the right track, but I'm sure someone else can provide more detailed steps if needed.
     
  3. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    That is good to hear Nermal. I am waiting for another DVD Drive, because to old one doesn't work. So I couldn't try the Leopard install yet. So I will wait with buying an external adapter. Thanks, Wouter
     
  4. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #4
    Do you still have the OLD hard drive? Does it work?

    If yes, do you have any way to connect it to the computer?

    If yes, connect the OLD hard drive and see if you can get booted up.

    If you can, you can do anything you want from that point.

    As you see, it was A MISTAKE to change drives and put a new drive in, before you had it "set up" properly.
    (Of course, if the old drive failed, there might not have been much you could do otherwise)...
     
  5. Wouter3, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019

    Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #5
    The old drive is now working in another PowerPC. I could target boot the other PowerPC and connect the one with the new disk through firewire and select the other disk as boot device. I don't know how that works. I have tried it the other way around. So target boot the PowerPC with the new disk and use disk utilities on the old PowerPC. However, the disk was not recognized, so I could not format it.

    Are you saying that I cannot use the method as indicated by Nermal above?
     
  6. mikehalloran macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Old guy here who still has a couple G4s and remembers when. Some things to check:

    It depends on your Leopard DVD. Only the retail version should work to install on a G4. If that's not what you have (a restore disk for a different Mac, for example), it may not work. I have that retail disk image if needed.

    The drive needs to be a DVD-DL and many G4s do not have that. I don't believe it was OE till the dual-core versions around the time that the G5 was released.

    Like all PPCs, a G4 will not boot from a USB external—it can read from one but not boot. You can try selecting it as a startup disk from the G4 but holding down the C key won't cut it. The drive needs to be internal or FireWire to boot.

    There are ways to load the disk image onto your hard drive and install from it but it's been 12 or more years since I did that.

    Now here's the kicker: Many G4s cannot run Leopard at all (my 700) because the GPU is incompatible, even if you get it installed (there's a hack or you install it on a later G4 and move the HDD over). An 800 is the minimum. Or it runs so slow, it's not worth the effort like my dual core 1G—I threw in the towel on that machine. Both of mine now dual-boot into OS 9.2 / OS 10.4.11.

    I intend to install an 128GB SSD into my twin-core this summer. I bought an ATA to SATA adapter that's supposed to work. We'll see... It won't see larger than 120GB so I'll try partitioning into 3. Will try OS 10.5 again just to see what happens.
    --- Post Merged, May 24, 2019 ---
    If a DVD-DL drive, that should work. You may have to run Disk Utility to format the drive, however which will wipe the drive.

    If it asks to Update the drivers, that's ok and will not erase the drive.
     
  7. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #7
    I have the leopard .iso file from "Mactintosh Garden". I assume that is the same as the retail version. My DVD drive is no longer working so I ordered a second-hand one from the local "marketplace". That arrives in a few days. I was able to target boot the G4 and connect to to another G4. Running the disk utility from that G4 did not show the internal drive, so I could not format it. I tried it on a white macbook with firewire under snow leopard and had the same result. I bought an old external firewire DVD-drive from eBay, but unfortunately that was broken. If I cannot reformat the harddrive using the internal dvd drive that I ordered using Leopard, I will order an ATA/IDE to usb adapter to which I can connect my harddrive and try to reformat it that way.

    I took the old working disk drive with Leopard installed from my 1.25 GHz G4 and installed it on my 800 MHz G4. That works great. But that leaves my 1.25 GHz G4 with a new 200 GB unformatted harddrive. I tried earlier to install Leopard on the 800 MHz G4 using the program LeopardAssist in order to fool the system with an 867 MHz clock which is the required minimum clockspeed for Leopard to install. But the DVD drive from the earlier G4 can only read single layer DVDs, so installation from DVD did not work. As the firewire DVD that I ordered did not work either, I was left to swapping the disks. I could of course install the old HD with Panther in my 1.25 G4 and then install Leopard, but that leaves me with a 60 GB HD with a new 200 GB HD on the shelf.

    I expect the replacement internal DVD player that I ordered to arrive on Tuesday, and will then try to format it and install Leopard on it. If that doesn't work I will order the IDE to usb adapter and try it that way. In any event, I will keep you posted on my experiences.

    On a different note as you intend to install an SSD on a twin-core. I wanted to install an SSD in my daughters white twin-core Macbook. I was told by the SSD vendor, an Apple repair shop, that it is possible but that I should not expect much speed gain as the interface restricts the speed to that of a normal HD.
     
  8. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #8
    It might be time to start shopping for more modern hardware...
     
  9. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #9
    I have a relative new iMac (end 2013) and a Macbook (2015). These G4s are Apple nostalgy
     
  10. mikehalloran macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Yea, love Macintosh Garden though I rarely visit anymore. I will be curious to see if that adapter works.

    I didn’t mention why I’m installing an SSD. No one makes IDE HDDs anymore. I don’t have any that are reliable and I’m not buying old stock. I have a few old SATA HDDs around and know I can make something work but, as long as I’m having it apart, I’ll see what an SSD can do. It will certainly boot faster.

    I rarely touch it anymore except to open old ClarisDraw and ClarisWorks graphics along with some games which feature my daughters voices. I still make a few $$$ converting old files but not so much anymore. As much as I liked Word 5.1a (best WP ever), I moved on long time ago. Maybe when I retire. Nah.... gotta share files with others.

    Otherwise, I’ve been able to convert everything else I had including my DMCS files from the 1980s. LibreOffice can now convert any word processing doc ever created on a Mac so it’s no longer needed for that.

    So, while I will be curious to see if OS 10.5 will actually be usable on my G4, I don’t really care otherwise.
    --- Post Merged, May 25, 2019 ---
    If you really get stuck, I can format that drive for you. Postage back and forth from the EU isn’t horribly expensive.
     
  11. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #11
    I have replaced my broken DVD drive and before I format a new harddrive and want to see if upgrading to Leopard on my current Tiger disk works OK. I have double clicked on the Mac OS X icon and restarted the computer. I am supposed to get a menu with language choice and diskchoice. Nothing of that. I hear the DVD drive turning and working and on the screen I see a colored little disk turning. But is doing this for more than an hour. The Leopard disk is an iso file which I copied from Macintosh Garden.

    Is this normal or have I missed something in the installation process?
     
  12. Wouter3, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019

    Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #12
    I have replaced my broken dvd drive. I can open the files on the Leopard DVD so I assume it is a drive that recognizes DL DVDs. After starting up Tiger I wanted to install Leopard (.iso file #32 from Macintosh garden that I burned on a DVD). My G4 PowerPC is a 1.25 GHz with 1.25 GB RAM. After booting holding down the C key, it started up but kept on running for hours without anything happening. You hear the drive spinning and a small turning wheel on the screen, but thats it. I powered it off and restarted but it will no longer start from harddisk and starts by reading the DVD again. Booting with holding the option key gives the screen where you can select to start from DVD or Harddrive, but I cannot select either of them as the mouse and keyboard seem to be frosen. My only option is probably to open the computer and take off the DVD cable and boot again.

    My question here is, did I use a version of Leopard that cannot work (#32 from Macintosh Garden). How can I get it to work properly. How can I "reset" the bootsystem to work properly. Even booting with the mouse button pressed, does not eject the DVD. Any answer from "old guy"?
     
  13. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #13
    Listen, you can struggle with this forever, or you can do it "my way".

    1. Go to the other computer that you put the old drive into.

    2. Take the old drive OUT OF that computer, and bring it back to this one.

    3. Attach that drive (both drives connected).

    4. Boot from the old drive.

    5. When you get to the finder, download an old copy of CarbonCopyCloner from here:
    https://bombich.com/software/download_ccc_update.php?v=3.4.7

    6. Launch CCC and clone the contents of the old drive to the NEW drive

    7. Try booting from the new drive now. Does it work?

    8. If so, take the old drive out and put it back into the other Mac.
     
  14. mikehalloran macrumors 65816

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    #14
    I agree.

    He left out reset the PRAM — that can be part of the problem. Been a long time since I dealt with classrooms of PPCs so pardon my forgetting this. if you don’t know the health of the battery, remove it. The settings won’t be saved but it removes a bad battery from the equation.

    If CCC Fails, you have a bad stick of RAM (it’s an excellent diagnostic tool for that). Not “may have”, you do. I have a shoebox of bad RAM from G4s.

    There’s always the possibility your drive is not set properly re Master/Slave. Look up the jumper settings for it and make sure you have those right.
     
  15. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #15
    I have a IDE data cable to which I attach two drives. Where do I get the power from as I don't have an additional 4-pin power cord. I could use the power from the dvd drive, which I do not need for this purpose.
    The battery could very well also be the problem, as every time it booted up I had to redo the wifi password in order for it to connect to internet to set the clock and date. I assume starting the G4 up while everything is open on the table is not a problem. The RAM has worked OK so far, but I have ordered 1 GB of 184-pin DIMM memory, but that has not arrived yet.
    I have some work to do tonight
     
  16. Wouter3, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019

    Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #16
    Guys, I have installed the 2 disks, but the system hangs after the white Apple screen. Before that I see a small icon with a question mark.
    I first tried the good disk as master and the new disk as slave on one cable on the outer 40-pin plug on the motherboard. Master on the black plug and the slave on the gray one. As this did not work I put the cable on the inner plug on the motherboard. Also that didn't work. Then I put the good disk on a single cable on the inner as well as the outer plug of the motherboard. All without the dvd drive. So I don't see a way to connect both drives to the motherboard and get a good startup.
    I also checked the battery which gave 3.64 Volt (nr F 03 298 B).

    So how should I proceed in your views?

    I installed both good disk and dvd drive but the system keeps on reading the dvd. As if I had a bootup with the C-button pressed. I cannot get it to boot from the harddisk. Even booting with the option key makes it start from the dvd drive, which still contains Leopard installation disk
     
  17. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #17
    Here's what I'd try next:

    1. Mount the old "good" drive internally and see if you can get it to boot.

    2. If it does, find a way to connect the "empty" (bad) drive EXTERNALLY. USB, or something else.

    3. Again, use the version of CCC I linked to in reply 13 above to clone the contents of the good, bootable drive to the non-bootable drive.

    4. Now, power down. Disconnect the external drive and remove the internal (good) drive. Connect the external drive internally and see if it will boot now.
     
  18. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #18
    I have been struggling to do your pt 1. I get different results with starting up, so I will take all apart again and see if all cables are correctly fitted. I also tried to reset the PRAM, but I did not get any sounds with startup. In any event I managed to get the disk out of the player by pushing the little button on the drive. After I have rebuild it I will indeed undertake your pts 2 - 4. I have just ordered an IDE - USB adapter so when that arrives I should be able to format the drive and copy the contents of the good drive. The 1.25 GHZ G4 is so much more vulnerable in putting together then the older 800 MHz G4. So my first effort tonight is trying to get the 1.25 GHz G4 to startup normally again.
    I will keep you posted
     
  19. Wouter3, May 28, 2019
    Last edited: May 28, 2019

    Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #19
    I keep on struggling in getting it to boot from the old disk. I have changed the clip on the disk to middle and right and now have taken it off (master or single drive). When booting (without sound) it starts up with the grey screen with apple but then after a minute the little rotating circle stops rotating and the systems hangs. I have tried to reset the PRAM by booting with Option-Command-P-R pushed. No sounds, but in the grey apple screen no rotating circle, so there is a difference. When restarting the fans work but the screen stays black.

    I will get another battery although the old one holds enough voltage.

    What is there left to get it booting up normal?
     
  20. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #20
    In all my opening and closing actions of the G4 PowerPC I did not put heatsink paste on the 2 joints with the metal parts of the dome. Just because it needed to be opened again for installing the new harddisk. Could this have caused the processor to fry although it has not been running longer than 2 minutes?
     
  21. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #21
    Hi Guys, I have received the external IDE adapter and was able to attach an old IDE drive. The new one was not visible on my disk utility, nor on the old PowerPC G4, not on my newer iMac. I therefore will send it back to the seller.
    My 17" G4 still does not power up. The only thing I hear are the fans. No sounds, no humming from disks, no screen. Could this be the PSU or the Logic Board? A running fan would possibly indicate that the PSU is OK.
     
  22. SecuritySteve macrumors 6502a

    SecuritySteve

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    #22
    Sounds like a logic board issue to me.
     
  23. Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #23
    That is what I am fearing, however, from the PSU cables go directly to the disk/dvd drives. These are not turning. From the PSU cables also go to the Logic Board and from there to the Fan. The Fan is working. Could this mean that the PSU is broken?
     
  24. SecuritySteve macrumors 6502a

    SecuritySteve

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    #24
    Are any of the power cables interchangeable? it has been a long time since I looked into an iMac that old. If so, you might want to swap them around to rule out a bad cable. Otherwise the logic board might have a short elsewhere and is not delivering power / signal to the other components.
     
  25. Wouter3, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: May 31, 2019

    Wouter3 thread starter macrumors member

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    #25
    From the PSU there is one plug into the Logic Board, which powers the Fans. From the PSU there is also one cable going directly to the Disk/DVD drives. They are not turning.

    I checked the power source from the PSU and that seems OK. Thus it must be the Logic Board :-(
     

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25 May 24, 2019