Former Apple Employee Ken Segall says 5C was wrong

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by the8thark, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. the8thark macrumors 68040


    Apr 18, 2011
    His blog
  2. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

    Sep 5, 2013
    Oregon, USA
    The messaging was fine. The premise was all wrong. The goal was to offer a lower cost device, but it had all the same hardware inside, so it wasn't substantively cheaper to make, so the price didn't change much. But the one change was the case, which didn't save much in manufacturing but did reduce its social value (my phone is better than your phone).

    The other way around would have worked (fewer features with the same look), as would smaller/cheaper/cuter. Hopefully they see this now.
  3. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    Ken Segall was never an Apple employee. He's an ad man.
  4. roadbloc macrumors G3


    Aug 24, 2009
    The 5C would have probably sold more if it had actually been cheap enough to warrant it. For the price, consumers may as well have stretched the extra £100 for the 5S. Especially if they were getting a subsidized contract which would have probably worked out at only an extra £2 or so a month.

    In short, the price was too high.
  5. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    But if Apple had kept the 5 would people have complained the price was too high? The technology is the same as the 5C. Seems to me the biggest problem with the 5C was the months of speculation that the "C" stood for cheap (because Wall Street is obsessed with market share at any cost). Heck Gene Munster was speculating on all the ways Apple might gimp the phone to make it cheap.

    Maybe what we get from the 5C is analysts finally getting the message that Apple won't do cheap, and Apple getting the message that their customers prefer metal to plastic. I still think the 5C will stick around (with new colors) as the base level iPhone.
  6. cambookpro macrumors 603


    Feb 3, 2010
    United Kingdom
    I, personally, think Apple should've actually tried to make a mid-range handset. A5 processor, 5mp camera, VGA front camera, plastic etc.

    Sure, the 5c is a great phone, but it wasn't cheap enough to warrant purchasing it over the 5s, and it was too 'good' to compete with lower end handsets. It was a phone created for and marketed at... almost nobody.

    If it had been free on contract, I'm sure a lot more people would've snapped it up.
  7. G4er? macrumors 6502a

    Jan 6, 2009
    Temple, TX
    That's why the put the card reader slot on the back of the mini. It's simpler and a great experience to fumble for things.
  8. plinden macrumors 68040


    Apr 8, 2004
    So the 5C worked out for Apple then?
  9. SpyderBite macrumors 65816


    Oct 4, 2011
    I usually buy on contract, so the 5c was a good choice for me when I needed to replace my lost 5. My 5 already did 10x more than I needed it to do for my every day needs. $99 was worth it to me in as it saved me $100 and I was able to break free of the traditional black/white/silver spectrum. :)
  10. Lefty21 macrumors regular

    Aug 6, 2012
    Lexington, KY
    I get the premise of the article, but I don't understand where their numbers are coming from. $869 for a 16 GB 5S?

    EDIT: Never mind, I get it - Australian dollars.
  11. Jessica Lares macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

    Oct 31, 2009
    Near Dallas, Texas, USA
    I'm going to get a 5C because at $199, I can get twice the storage, which is the only thing I want from the iPhone at this point. I've outgrown 16GB, but I can't afford the iPhone 5S at those $299 and $399 price points.

    The average person gets so much more from the 5C than the 5S when they look beyond the fingerprint reader, better camera, and other stuff. Pictures are pictures, especially when you're going to Instagram the heck out of them.
  12. kdarling macrumors P6


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    I think the public impression was that Apple / Ive didn't seem to take the 5C design very seriously.

    For one thing, the color choices were not fabulous. And everyone knew that there should've been a black.

    Then there was the poorly done "holes" case. It almost seemed like a joke. Even a five year old would've cut out a big enough slot to show all of the "iPhone" logo :rolleyes:


    Not impressive design.
  13. roadbloc macrumors G3


    Aug 24, 2009
    Are you suggesting that making a phone (5C) that nobody wants and does nothing but encourage sales of another model (5S) that already existed before the 5C is a good thing?

    Because if that is the case, why even bother making the 5C? One phone, one choice.
  14. Macman45 macrumors G5


    Jul 29, 2011
    Somewhere Back In The Long Ago
    Exactly...The 5C was not cheap when compared to Android stuff...not cheap at all..You paid for what was basically an iPhone 5 in a plastic shell...Personally, I didn't like it, and bought an IP5S instead..As to whether or not it has introduced new people to the Apple community? I doubt it...If they'd priced it way lower then maybe they would have acheived the result they wanted...I don't think it was a total flop, but I'm not surprised that the sales figures don't set the world on fire....As a died in the wool Apple user, I would have held on to my 5 had I not been able to buy the 5S...I never considered the 5C as an option at all.
  15. numlock macrumors 68000

    Mar 13, 2006
    in what world is $549 cheap?

    there is huge world between cheap and the price apple is charging for the 5c. its a nonsensical copout.

    and yes people would still have complained and did complain previous years.

    and yes ws is obsessed with market share which of course why they force downloads of ios7 and plaster graphs when it suits them at ever conference. no wait thats apple

    no its an embarrassing design. premium example of the flat footedness of apple and how lazy and complacent ive has become
  16. Septembersrain Contributor


    Dec 14, 2013
    The blue iPhone 5c is my first iPhone. I went and bought a 5s later on in space grey. I will never sell my 5c though it's likely I may sell the 5s at a later date though. I was never a fan of Apple or the products they sold. If they had never taken a risk with the 5c, I may have never known a good product.

    I feel the 5c hit a very small niche but did serve a purpose. It brought in people like me who've always had "Plastic" phones. While I do like my 5s, I love my 5c. It feels heavier, more solid, and that blue color is always mood heightening....
  17. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    Not impressive design. Who in their right mind would approve an upside down Apple logo? Oh, that's right, Steve Jobs did. And designers eventually got him to change his mind and realize the logo should be right side up to the people it's facing. Just like he approved the flower power iMacs, the hockey puck mouse, the buttonless iPod shuffle and the fat nano. And the color choices for the iPod mini.


    Under Steve Jobs Apple certainly had some design faux pas. Even good designers/design teams make mistakes. Honestly I think the 5C looks better in person than it does in photos. I know people who own it and I've played around with it at the Apple store. I actually think its a really nice phone and feels great in the hand. It feels really solid, not cheap at all. But I won't be surprised to see different colors this year.
  18. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    When did I say the 5C was cheap? My point was the rumor mill and Wall Street "analysts" were expecting it to be cheap (based on the premise that Apple is doomed if it doesn't make a cheap phone to increase market share). Of course Apple doesn't typically respond to stuff like this so the cheap meme was never countered so when the phone came out and wasn't as cheap as expected it doomed the phone from the get go. Which, IMO, is too bad because the phone got good reviews (Engadget said it was the nicest plastic phone they've ever held, the Verge said the 5C could show other phone makers, e.g. Samsung, how to make a nice plastic phone) and it seems most people who own the phone really like it. On Apple's earnings call Tim Cook said a large number of 5C buyers were new to iPhone. Drop the 5C to the entry level iPhone, update the colors and I think it will be very successful.

    As far as forcing iOS 7 on people, I have a number of friends and family members who are still running iOS 6 on devices that are capable of running iOS 7. They have no interest in updating. How is Apple forcing iOS 7 on them?

    Nothing lazy or complacent about the Mac Pro. And I love my iPad Air. Best iPad Apple has designed.
  19. numlock macrumors 68000

    Mar 13, 2006
    im not saying you directly said it was cheap. you mention some analysts predictions/hopes and that also been a defense here for the pricing of the 5c that apple dosent do cheap. my response is simply that it is far from being cheap and that a wiggle room must exist.

    i would drop the price $100-150, update the colors as you say (personally i find them nicer looking in pictures than in real life) to me they look like plastic thats been discolored by the sun. it would be enough of a phone for.

    are you unaware of the automatic ios7 over the air downloads?
    the mac pro certainly is not complacent. how it works out in real life though will have to be seen. computer designs require more than a moma piece. from the little i have handled the ipad air it felt like an evolution of the previous versions.

    but you can hardly defend the absurdity of the way the case looks on the 5c?
  20. skottichan macrumors 6502a


    Oct 23, 2007
    Columbus, OH
    You're still required to allow the install of iOS7. Sure it's known to download itself, but it still requires user to go into update and give input to actually update the OS.
  21. thewitt macrumors 68020


    Sep 13, 2011
    Apple's mistake was trying to play down to a market they have never served, with any of their devices. They DON'T do low end, and going down only part way appealed to no one.

    Stay high end Apple. Let the other guys have the bargain hunters and continue to only release insanely great products.

    Jobs would never have approved the 5C... Nothing insanely great about it.
  22. thekev macrumors 604


    Aug 5, 2010
    Apple did the last year's model for $100 less thing before without switching shells, presumably to cut material costs. Most of the hardware seemingly tracked the prior generation. I didn't see that as an attempt to build a lower cost device. It seemed like the goal was more of a cost cutting measure at the same price point they had always used for a previous generation device. They may have encountered more success if it was cheap enough to attract an increased number of unsubsidized purchases. Also including better color choices wouldn't have hurt.
  23. Renzatic Suspended


    Aug 3, 2011
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    The 5C is hardly a low end device, rather it's a relatively less expensive iPhone. The problem is, at some point in its design, that "relatively" became a "barely", and it ended up pricing itself out of the market it was trying to create.

    At $399, the 5C would've been a steal, even if they had to scale back the hardware to achieve that price point. Right now though, at $549, the only thing it does is make the the 5S look better in comparison. Why spend that much for a good phone, when you can get the flagship best for just $100 more?
  24. numlock macrumors 68000

    Mar 13, 2006
    im perfectly aware of how the process is (happened to two devices) and i specifically said force downloads instead of force installs.

    but tell me on a device as small as 8 gig (even a 16 gig one). how much choice do you really have when this can take up over 3 gig?


    that is a line that is repeated here ad nauseam. i seriously doubt the ones repeating have a mind of their with regards to this matter at least.

    $300-450 for a phone before tax is considered low end and cheap.
  25. deluxeshredder macrumors 6502a

    Nov 30, 2013
    5C is nothing more than an attempt to avoid the "regular" 5 cannibalising the 5S.

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