Found one of my "Grail" Computers-9600

Discussion in 'Apple Collectors' started by bunnspecial, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. bunnspecial, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015

    bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    Kentucky
    #1
    I've been looking to round out my collection of late OWR Macs, and put out a couple of "feelers" looking for a few systems.

    For as long as I've known about it, I've really been intrigued by the 9600. Something about opening up the big case and seeing all those PCI and RAM slots just gets me excited.

    A very generous soul on the Low End Mac Swap responded to my WTB ad, and said he had a 9600/200MP that I could have for the cost of shipping. Of course, that was not an insignificant amount of money, but still incredibly kind and generous of him. Of all the possible configurations, the 200MP was one of the most interesting to me.

    In any case, the(47lb) box arrived today, and I just got around to unboxing it a few minutes ago. With it being the same basic case as the 8600, I wasn't that surprised by the size, although the 9600 is a fair bit heavier than the 8600.

    I haven't even powered it up yet(will try to do so later this evening), but am excited to have it and see what happens. It may end up being my Rhapsody machine.

    I'm not sure how much RAM this one has, but I'm very tempted to blow $120 at OWC to max it out to 1.5gb :) . It does have a 10/100 ethernet card, and I'm going to stick a Rage 128 in before powering it up.

    This may not be exciting or exotic like a TAM, but it's still a computer I'm very happy to get.
     

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  2. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #2
    I was about ready to get really frustrated with the thing, as I couldn't get a VGA out on my Rage 128. Unfortunately, I didn't have a DB-15 monitor with me or a DB-15 to VGA connector so I couldn't check the stock video card.

    The Rage 128 was one I had just bought and was untested, so I tried a known-good 9200 with the same result. I pulled all the expansion cards out and tried the 9200 in every slot, with no luck. Finally, I got frustrated and put it back together with the Rage 128 installed, figuring I'd tackle it later. The computer would chime in every configuration and I could hear the hard drive crunching, so I didn't think it was completely dead. I should also mention that along the way, I tried the typical tricks, including cleaning the video card contacts and processor contacts with a pencil eraser, then took it down to a single DIMM. I went to plug the monitor back into my Quicksilver(it was serving as the secondary monitor on that computer) and found I was no longer getting a signal and the computer wouldn't detect the monitor. Finally, I checked the connections, and found that the VGA cable was half loose from the back of the monitor :rolleyes:

    It worked fine on my Quicksilver, so I got brave and plugged it into the 9600 again. It worked on the first try! The computer has OS 8 BeOS installed. I didn't play around with BeOS at all, but did boot into OS 8 and went ahead and upgraded to OS 9. It's running great now!
     
  3. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    Australia, Perth
    #3
    You gotta love those kind of things or you'll go mad. :eek:

    IIRC, they discontinued the 350Mhz CPU fairly soon after the G3 Desktop was introduced but kept selling the slower CPUs. The skeptic in me suspects that was because the 300Mhz 604e out performed the G3.
     
  4. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #4
    I mentioned this in my 8600 thread, but I was playing around with Mathematica and timing how long it took to calculate some complex integrals. I actually found the 200mhz 604E to be faster than a 300mhz G3(in a B&W), and about equal to a 400mhz G3(also in a B&W). My 450mhz G4-upgraded B&W edged it out slightly, but I suspect that it was more of a function of the higher clock speed and higher bus since I seriously doubt the version of Mathematica I'm using even begins to know how to use Altivec.

    I'm not sure if Mathematica is even multi-processor aware, but I suspect if it can use both processors the 9600/200MP will smoke even the 400mhz G3.

    Of course, G4s have a significant advantage when the software is written to use Altivec, but after playing around with 604e based computers the past few days I have a very high opinion of that processor. I also can't help but look down at the G3 a little bit since it has more in common with the 603e than the 604e.

    If I can find my(misplaced) dongle to run Spartan, which is a computational chemistry program, I'll run some calculations in it too. I either need to find mine or hope that someone else has one lying around that they will part with. I have some indirect contact with Wavefunction(the company that makes Spartan) and emailed someone there a while back asking if I they still had any ADB dongles available. Their response was to offer to sell me a newer version of the software for $700 :rolleyes:. The sad thing is I have 3 of the PC dongles(which plug into a parallel port) but the Mac ones seem to be unobtainable.
     
  5. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

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    #5
    Ahhh... Aladdin's MacHasp dongles. Some were marked with PACE too. A slightly complex system and since the company has moved on to bigger and better things, I'm not sure they will help, either. Aladdin's old domain is now owned by http://www.safenet-inc.com/ and doesn't even reference the old MacHasp hardware (though they still mention a HASP product). :(

    https://web.archive.org/web/2000111...efun.com/software/licensing/license_home.html
     
  6. weckart macrumors 68040

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    #6
    Well done; that didn't take too long. I have my sights on an 8600 this afternoon but I think it will go for too much. I would be trying an early build of Rhapsody and Beos on it as Beos will not install on any of my Powerbooks. I bought Beos 4 back in the day and have only used it on Intel up to now. Curious to see how it performs on PPC.

    You should persevere with Rhapsody on your Gxs, though. One of the coolest tricks is being able to run an earlier version of OS than your machine shipped with. 1.2v3 uses OS9 as a helper but runs 8.6 under Blue Box.
     
  7. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
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    #7
    Weckart, did you get your 8600?

    With the A/V functions on these(and the 8500, which I've had for a while) I've been really tempted to attempt some video editing with my grandfather's old camcorder that's back in the closet. I've just been putting it off, partially out of lack of interest and partially because I don't have the right software(although I think at least one version of Final Cut will work in OS 9). All said and done, too, my G3 with a "Wings" card would probably be better.

    In any case, 8600s are fun machines. They do have onboard video-unlike the 9600(although I've yet to use the onboard video on mine) plus the AV functionality. I have a G4 card on the way, and I want to pull an Intell and install Leopard on mine(assuming I can get it to work-it has so far eluded me on the B&W).
     
  8. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #8
    Leopard is a bit easier to install on the PM 8600 than the B&W G3. Seems like it shouldn't but it is. It's lots of fun having one machine boot 7.5.5 through 10.5.8. Here's a neat fact, it only takes four Macs to be able to boot every public version of Mac OS and OS X every released.
     
  9. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #9
    I may be asking you questions if/when I tackle that project.

    In any case, I know that I can boot Public Beta-10.5.8 on my GigE(all currently installed) and theoretically can boot Server 1.2v3. I also have a white Macbook that shipped with 10.6 and can run 10.10(officially-no hacks needed), so have all of OS X(and OS 9) covered with two systems. I don't have the Macbook set up that way, though-it's my 10.10 experimental system(I still haven't upgraded my main MBP to 10.10) and that's the only OS installed.

    I'm guessing that with enough hard drives and/or partitions, I could do 7.5.5 through 10.5.8 on the 8600-especially since you've done it already. I think my SE can do System 5 through System 7(or maybe even 7.5, although it crashed when I put the 7.5 drive out of my Quadra in it). What would be the oldest that can run System 1-5? Could it be done on a 512K, or would a 128K be needed?
     
  10. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #10
    The machines needed to run all public versions are 128K, 512K, Macintosh Plus, PM 8600, and Mid-2007 iMac. Small correction, five machines are needed. There are some machines that can be used instead of those listed, like the PM 9600 instead of the 8600.
     
  11. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #11
    Intell, will the 8600/9600 still boot 7.5.5 with the G4 upgrade card? I'm assuming it will, since you indicate that yours can do just that, but I'm just double checking.
     
  12. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #12
    I honestly don't remember. I think it did, but I could be wrong about that. It's been awhile since I had 7.5.5 on there.
     
  13. MacTech68 macrumors 68000

    MacTech68

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Australia, Perth
    #13
    Sonnet does support 7.5.2, if indeed your card is a SonnetTech Card.

    SonnetTech's manual says their G3 & G4 upgrades for PCI PowerMacs support 7.5.2 to 9.1

    http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/crescendo_pci_g3_or_g4_manual.pdf

    The manual also details how to get the resources for OS9 Altivec to install from OS9.

    However, you'd need to get the old v3.1 installer which is the last for classic MacOS and is no longer available from Sonnet.

    Get that here.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2009020.../support/downloads/processorupgradecards.html
     
  14. weckart macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    #14
    Negative. Bidding went up close to £50, which was a bit rich for me, even if it came with a beige mouse, keyboard and Applevision monitor with inbuilt speakers. Pity, as it was a local collect only affair, which tends to temper bidding somewhat. Clearly, beige is back in vogue.

    I also had my eyes on this little collection; again, only for the brown item but it rose quickly in the last few minutes. Still, not a bad little lot for a newbie collector. Actually, that might be a 20" iMac G4. If so, that would be a very nice lot, indeed.
     

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  15. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #15
    Sorry you missed. All told, I paid $25 for my 8600(factoring in the average price for the computer) plus about $3 each for AEKIIs and $2 each for ADBII mice. Of course, I had to add in a 2+hour drive each way(really closer to two and a half with all the road work going on now) but think I did alright. I got my 9600 for the cost of shipping.

    I'm surprised that beige machines are that hot over in the UK.
     
  16. weckart macrumors 68040

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    #16
    Add in the hassle of driving that distance, then I would suppose the costs were more or less equal. Having said that, I paid a the princely sum of £5 for a Sawtooth and a QS so £50 seemed too much to drop on a whim. Seems as if the beige G3/6xx machines have acquired 'vintage' status and a price to match.

    Out of curiosity, I am tracking a TAM that went on sale today from someone I have bought from in the past. Will see how much that fetches now.
     
  17. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #17
    I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I actually don't consider a drive of that distance to be too terrible. I know that European and American opinions about driving distance differ.

    With gasoline at around $2.25/gallon now in this area and my car getting about 27mpg in highway driving, the 182 mile drive works out to about a cost of $15-or maybe $20 when I add in the wasted gas sitting in traffic and lower gas mileage driving around town. Considering that it was a trip to buy four computers, it really was a no-brainer for me to go and get them, aside from just the time spent.

    I'd be interested to know what the TAM brings. That's one of the major computers I'm missing, but prices are too high on them at the moment for me to seriously consider one. If decent ones would get down to a few hundred dollars, I might reconsider.
     
  18. weckart macrumors 68040

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    Nov 7, 2004
    #18
    27mpg? Ouch. My last car did that in urban traffic. I swapped it for the same model in diesel and it now averages 65mpg on the motorway. With the price of petrol about $7 a gallon here, travel becomes an issue, even for manageable distances.

    The TAM is starting at £245. I am betting it will finish below £500. It does come with some extras like a pair of Sun external SCSI drives but they add to the high postage, which is just shy of £50.
     
  19. bunnspecial, Apr 1, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015

    bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #19
    One pays a price when one prefers to drive a good old American V8 :)

    Realistically, pollution laws and crash safety laws around here(neither of which are bad things on the whole) actually do a lot to hamper fuel efficiency. Pollution laws restrict exhaust systems, and crash safety laws tend to add a lot of weight. 35mpg is typical even little I-4 commuter car, with 40+ mpg typically not being obtainable outside of hybrids(although my sister's Prius does run a steady 45mpg). Diesels are rare around here in consumer vehicles, and tend to be limited to 1-ton or 1 1/2 ton pickups(where 25-30mpg is typical, and not bad considering the typical 4000lb+ weight of those vehicles) and a select few Mercedes, BMW, and VW models. 40+ MPG is not unheard of for a Mercedes diesel(along with very long lifes-many of the ones I see on the road date to the 80s and 500,000 miles+ is not uncommon), and a little VW like a Jetta or Beetle can get 50+ in diesel. Even so, you have to go out of your way to find them. Passenger car diesels-on the whole-have a bad reputation here for being cantankerous and difficult to get fixed-many of the folks I know who own them actually end up going to semi-truck mechanics for engine work. I think that a lot of that stuff has been fixed in more modern diesels, but the reputation lingers.
     
  20. weckart macrumors 68040

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    #20
    It went for £550 + £48 shipping (seller in UK, TAM in Ireland hence high postage).

    On a personal note, I missed out on a Sonnet Encore. Spec unknown but sold unannounced in a dead DA where the PRAM had leaked. I spotted the purple heatsink plus fan so would guess at a Duet at 1GHz+. Sold for £21. I was sniped in the last few seconds by the only other bidder. Should have bid more but was sure this was flying under the radar. Serves me right, I suppose.
     
  21. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #21
    At ~$820 USD, that actually sounds pretty reasonable. At least they're out there for under the $1K mark. How was that one? Did it have the keyboard and speakers?

    It's a shame you missed out on that DA. That was a heck of a deal for a Sonnet!
     
  22. weckart macrumors 68040

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    #22
    Link to TAM. Came with everything bar the box plus some extras.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151636957513
     
  23. bunnspecial thread starter macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #23
    Thanks-that looks like a nice set up in about the condition I would want(presentable, but not unused).

    That's also seems like a very reasonable price to me.
     

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