I would argue it was NOT the iPhone prototype as stated but a new touch-based netbook or tablet system - as claiming it was a up and coming iPhone generally removes any suspicion it was the new tablet computer.
D
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Foxconn Employee Reportedly Commits Suicide Over Lost iPhone Prototype
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I would argue it was NOT the iPhone prototype as stated but a new touch-based netbook or tablet system - as claiming it was a up and coming iPhone generally removes any suspicion it was the new tablet computer.
D
The thing we have to ask ourselves is that what would the response be if this person was in possession of a prototype from another company that had similar worth. Possession of these prototypes is possibly worth a lot of money. Remember lots of companies use Foxcon, so they do have alot of responsibility to their vendors regardless of what is being manufactured.
Not to mention that we are guessing at a lot of facts here. Apple is conducting an investigation here, so I wouldn't say its fair that their involvent in this matter is any more extensive than another vendor would be if they heard that a prototype was lost. We don't even know anything about this person other than he committed suicide. All of this happened over a several day period so for all we know, this was the final straw in a long series of problems this guy was going through and never told anybody about.
Until we get results from Apple's investigation or investigation from local authorities and Foxcon, all we have to go on are preliminary speculation and hearsay from translated Chinese sources. Lets not go and point fingers until we have a better grasp at the situation. Suicide is a very complicated condition.
What a delightfully provincial conclusion.
I'm not saying that is what should only be done. As far as Apple is concerned they should drop relations with Foxconn and do business with someone else.
What should be done though.....I've already commented on in earlier posts to this thread.
Anybody remember Christopher Walken in the Dogs of War or McBain? Someone needs to liberate those Chinese workers from their "domitories" inside the factories. That kid didn't jump out of an apartment building it was from the "dormitory" inside the friggin factory!
Yes I feel for the employee, absolutely but the rest of your statement is ignorant, uniformed and offensive to anyone that has ever suffered severe depression or lost someone to suicide that has suffered this awful disease.
What if it was discovered that this person suffer from untreated depression and did not inform anybody of it? Having suffered from depression, I can tell you that that telling other people is very hard. Apple is conducting an investigation, if anything comes up, they will act on it.
There wasa story in my local paper about it this morning as well..
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/07/22/20090722iPhoneSuicide22-ON.html
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/07/22/20090722iPhoneSuicide22-ON.html
And what of the friggin torture sessions during the "interrogation"? And if you think Foxconn didn't order security to do it your KIDDING YOURSELF!
Unfortunately until evidence of that surfaces, you cannot make that claim. And according to news sources I have read, the security guard claims he his not beat Sun. If he did, the Police (who are talking to the guard) will find that out.
But even if the guard is lying, I would still require proof that Foxconn ordered the beating. There are such things as rouge guards just as there are cops that go rogue. Foxconn is huge - you think they are going to risk their other partnerships by doing something so illegal?
Poor guy may very well have been thrown to his death after being tortured. You can't trust any news coming out of China. Take it from somebody who lives here. You can just as well assume the opposite of what the story says, and 90% of the time you'd be closer to the truth.
This suicide story reminds me of the botched fake-suicide in Shishou that resulted in 3 days of rioting in mid-June.
Foxconn surely has Triad or organized crime components. There's no way this big a company is operating on Guangdong province without them being somehow involved.
Rule of law doesn't exist here. For all we know, the officials investigating the suicide were complicit in the victim's murder. All that matters is your guanxi and which local officials are in your pocket or somehow indebted to you. It is extremely likely that there's more to this than is being reported.
This suicide story reminds me of the botched fake-suicide in Shishou that resulted in 3 days of rioting in mid-June.
Foxconn surely has Triad or organized crime components. There's no way this big a company is operating on Guangdong province without them being somehow involved.
Rule of law doesn't exist here. For all we know, the officials investigating the suicide were complicit in the victim's murder. All that matters is your guanxi and which local officials are in your pocket or somehow indebted to you. It is extremely likely that there's more to this than is being reported.
If it means a risk to their profits they sure as hell would do something illegal because they don't consider it illegal!
Police investigation? Try police coverup!
You want legal? This is what Foxconn understands as legal in China:
http://www.ihlo.org/IS/001104c.html
Torturing the kid and throwing him out the window was probably letting him off easy. They could have probably done worse to him or his family.
Priove that a coverup exists? Oh you can't, well come back when you can. Otherwise you might as well say that Oswald is a patsy because the evidence of that being true is about the same as a police cover-up.
Again, we have no proof of any torture. Until you can prove that it did anything that you hear on the matter is nothing more than speculation. You might as well argue that the moon landing was a cover up by a shadow government, but without any proof your just spouting out nonsense.
Again, please show definitive proof that Sun was tortured and that Foxconn's management ordered it (I will help you out, if there was, Foxconn would not have turned the torturer into the police). Show me a non specualtavie cite. Until you do that, any claims of torture are hearsay and worse, slanderous.
Look, I would like to know what happened here. If Foxconn has done anything illegal, I want them to be held accountable for it. Until that time comes, we can't just fling baseless accusations. We need proof. Unless you want to risk the chance that you are wrong.
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/09/ghastly-working-cond.html
Don't you get it? Foxconn won't be found guilty of any illegal doing because the stuff that goes on over there ISN'T ILLEGAL FOR THEM!
Gee, according to a lot of the sources I have read, several of the allegations (like the apartment searching are specifically mentioned as illegal. Which is it. Of course we don't know two very important facts:
1) If any of the allegations are true.
2) If any are true, is this the action of a Foxconn security guard acting on his own in a very overzealous manner or if management acted illegally.
I have asked many times for cites that prove that these allegations actually happened from reputable news sites or that people cool down on the rumor mongering. From what I have been hearing, people commit suicide in China simply due to the high stress that these jobs entail. Many of these employees simply cannot cope with their jobs and just kill themselves because they don;t know where to go for help.
Oh and your link? Has nothing to do with this case and doesn't even address my main point. I never claimed that working conditions in Chinese factories were good. However that link doesn't mention Foxconn or Apple. SO what was the point other than to stir the emotion pot. Show me relevant links that show gross violations that Apple hasn't dealt with since Apple does mention supplier relations. Both sides say that they require that employees be treated respectfully and properly. Unless you have bonafide proof that any of these alleged actions really occurred (and they would be illegal), than we should be patient and see what happened. For all we knew, this guy thought that loosing a prototype model was the last straw for him. Who knows. The Chinese culture is (like many other cultures) can be very hard to understand at times.
reputable news site inside of China? If the Chinese government decides this looks bad for the country ( duh... it already doesn't since this story appears to have traction), you think they are going cough up the straight story?
The answer is either going to be crazy man jumps out window. Or crazy guard was sent to prison. They are either going to throw that guy or the security folks under the bus so that China, Foxconn , and the other powers that be are no where near responsible or remote contributors to the outcome. They are going write the story that makes them look good and that the event was an aberration.
well that would be nice, I would prefer anything that cannot be filed under "rumor mill" since that doesn't help us. We need facts here - speculation is not good.
Well whatever does happen, we should know the truth. If it turns out that this guy committed suicide on his own accord that is certainly better than people claiming (without proof) that an overzealous security guard tortured him after searching Suns apartment and then tossed him off a roof - which is what sounds like people are suggesting.
We need facts and thats that. Speculation gets us nowhere and often times can be a diversion. I am not defending anyone here, I want information. I don't care whose guilty. We (nor Apple) is judge and Jury. If China does not wish to investigate things, well thats there problem and not ours. However there is only so much that can be done to begin with. All I am suggesting is that we make sure to be level about this and not start using this as an excuse to bash anyone much less China.
In order to find the truth, one needs to ask the right questions. A member of my family was once a subject of a police investigation. The police never found out the "truth" because they never asked the right question! In order to ask the right questions, one needs to have theories of what happened. Was this man tortured? Did he have other problems? Was he depressed? Did someone throw him out the window? All speculations, yes. But all questions that need to be asked in the course of an investigation, before they can be ruled out as true or false.
HONG KONG (Reuters) - Apple Inc said it was awaiting results from an investigation into the death of a worker in China, after media reports said the man killed himself on learning he was suspected of leaking company secrets.
The case puts the spotlight on Apple, whose public face as maker of the wildly successful iPhone contrasts with its reputation for a highly secretive corporate culture.
The incident, which triggered an investigation from local police and within Foxconn itself, sparked a Web firestorm in China and has provoked criticism of Apple's intensely guarded culture.
The company has previously threatened lawsuits against media and bloggers that try to publish information about its upcoming products, often arguing they obtained the information from employees who violated confidentiality agreements.
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20090722/tc_nm/us_apple_china
The case puts the spotlight on Apple, whose public face as maker of the wildly successful iPhone contrasts with its reputation for a highly secretive corporate culture.
The incident, which triggered an investigation from local police and within Foxconn itself, sparked a Web firestorm in China and has provoked criticism of Apple's intensely guarded culture.
The company has previously threatened lawsuits against media and bloggers that try to publish information about its upcoming products, often arguing they obtained the information from employees who violated confidentiality agreements.
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20090722/tc_nm/us_apple_china
Reuters said:
I am glad that we have something. It does look like that the Police and Foxconn are taking this matter seriously and (despite the rumor mongering) would be ignored.
Something happened. We do have a right to know what that is.
According to a newspaper, Apple Daily, in Hong Kong, Sun got 16 units of forth generation iPhone from the assembly line and he was responsible to ship them to Apple. Apple claimed that it received 15 units only and Sun was suspected for missing unit.
According to Southern Metropolis Daily, Apple suspected Foxconn might leak new iPhone to public and gave a lot of pressure to Foxconn. Southern Metropolis Daily quoted an named staff from Foxconn that missing of iPhone prototype might cause job loss of hundred thousands Foxconn's employee .
Perhaps the emotion pot should be stirred. Half the comments on Apple forums about this situtation has been about "oh cool so there is an iphone 4G prototype?".
Sickening. Both sides "SAY" that they require that employees be treated respectfully but they obviously DON'T mean it. Culture? What is this star trek and the prime directive?
So you think the chinese like their treatment do ya?
Hey, whatever right?
