Foxconn 'Remains Committed' to Wisconsin Plant and Promise of Eventually Employing 13,000 Workers

[kppolich]

I live in Milwaukee, WI and don't know anyone who doesn't have a job that actually wants one. That is in the most urban area in the entire state, so I have no idea where these 12,000 people are going to come from to fill these jobs. I do enjoy living here, taxes are low, and there is a alot to do. But the taxes and tax breaks are probably too low (doubt you'll ever hear me say that again!) resulting in roads that are absolutely awful and poor education.

 

[jlc1978]

Yep, American business has been shortsighted for profit. Now we have generations of the American buying public who simultaneously bemoan the loss of jobs, while also buying the cheaper product made elsewhere. People will have to get introduced to the notion of buying local simply costs more. Want jobs here, vote with your wallet.

That has been the trend throughout history; production moves to the cheapest labor source when individual labor accounts for the majority of the cost of production or is replaced by automation where fewer workers are required so individual productivity is higher with 1 worker at a higher labor cost than 10 cheaper ones.

The other side to this is there is little in the way of a qualified worker base to produce high end electronics on the scale we see done in Asia. That could be changed with more emphasis in trade school training etc. College is simply unnecessary for many people. They leave school in debt with a degree that is essentially useless. Unless it requires a special skill, what is the point anymore? We need more trade schools and vocational programs affiliated with high schools.

While I agree with you on vocational training, if production shifted to the US it will be a lot different than how it currently is done in Asia. It'll be a highly automated factory with a handful of well paid techs running and mainatining the machines. Doing that will required specialized traiing and a skill set beyond that of an average high school graduate. That will require a shift in how post-secondary education is viewed, collaboration between industry and schools, and a commitment of money to start such programs.

 

[NickName99]

I hate to see states giving these huge tax breaks to foreign corporations, only to be taken advantage of. It’s happened enough that they should learn to write better contracts.

 

[ElectricPotato]

...they should learn to write better contracts.

Where is the incentive for that? Cut a deal that looks good on paper, claim victory and move on to a higher political office. When the deal explodes, say your successor dropped the ball. Rinse, repeat.

If you drive too hard a bargain then no showcase deal to further your career. The incentive is to make a bad deal.

 

[NickName99]

Where is the incentive for that? Cut a deal that looks good on paper, claim victory and move on to a higher political office. When the deal explodes, say your successor dropped the ball. Rinse, repeat.

If you drive too hard a bargain then no showcase deal to further your career. The incentive is to make a bad deal.

A better contract could include consequences. You guys don’t follow through? You owe us all those tax incentives back. If they won’t sign that contract, that means you were going to get screwed.

 

[ElectricPotato]

A better contract could include consequences.

I agree completely. In a world where politicians do what is good for constituents instead of what is good for their political career, this would be the obvious thing to do. But real consequences would mean no deal in many of these situations.

 

[NickName99]

I agree completely. In a world where politicians do what is good for constituents instead of what is good for their political career, this would be the obvious thing to do. But real consequences would mean no deal in many of these situations.

I hate to give in to pessimism, but I agree with you that it would mean no deal in many of these situations. Frustrating.

 

[69Mustang]

I hate to give in to pessimism, but I agree with you that it would mean no deal in many of these situations. Frustrating.

It's not pessimism you'd be giving in to; it's realism. The type of contracts you mentioned up thread do exist and have existed for a long time. The problem is the contract administrators are the same politicians who's campaigns are funded by the companies they're supposed to administer. Look at any deal states have entered with telecoms. They're filled with promises, milestones, and even penalties that claw back funds or assess fines. The contracts exist. Enforcement is the problem. They don't get enforced because it's a long con played against the citizenry. It'll keep being played because politicians are, by and large, bought and paid for by the companies they're overseeing.

 

[ElectricPotato]

I hate to give in to pessimism

I'm mildly optimistic for the long run. When corruption become obvious and damaging enough, voters begin to act and political incentives start aligning with voters' will. Then voters get lazy and the cycle starts over. Hopefully, some small progress remains after each cycle.

 

[npmacuser5]

Americans can’t compete with manufacturing costs of third world countries and expect to pay the same for the products made in US. There are almost no regulations there, the quality of living is lower and cheaper. Labor gets paid a fraction.
It’s a pipe dream. Adapt or die.
Still amazes me how Americans still fall for this political BS.

Will pay the same as third world countries produced products.
Tariffs on third world countries products will raise the prices up to our product prices plus an increase in overall prices.
Businesses are happy. However we will pay significantly more for the same goods. A $500 TV today could easily double in price. Same could apply to our smartphone. Made here or over there, significantly higher prices will be the new normal.

 

[8281]

States handing out incentives to individual companies is just bad policy. If your state tax structure is uncompetitive, then fix the underlying problem. This whole game of billion dollar multinational firms flirting with different states to see who gives out the most goodies is fundamentally flawed.

 

[ntlman]

I grew up in suburban Chicago (yes, a true "FIB" to anyone from WI here), but love--LOVE--the state of WI. Most of my closest friends either are from there, went to college there, moved there, or married someone from there. I've been everywhere from Lake Geneva to the UP. I defy anyone to visit and NOT have a great time there and meet some of the finest people you'll ever meet in your life.

That said, it kills me to see what those Republican thugs in the WI legislature did with this deal. They absolutely bankrupted that town to enrich themselves with an obvious swindle. The Mount Pleasant village board of trustees should be paraded through the streets, tarred and feathered, while people spit on them. Here are the facts:

• A town of 26,000 people that has had essentially no population growth in the last 10 years.
• Over 50% of the town don't have a college degree
• Only 1/5 of the town aged over 25 has a bachelor's degree
• The average household income is only $46,000/yr

With these great demographics, the village board authorized a debt of $80 million to buy the land for Foxconn, which Foxconn does not have to pay back. There is no population of high paying jobs/new residents coming to pay off this debt. They got their credit rating downgraded only 9 MONTHS AFTER THE TRUMP/GOU GROUNDBREAKING PHOTO OPP.

If you're familiar with the story of a town in CA called Bell, this is basically the same kind of con, but much worse. Walker & Co. should be held accountable for this mess.

 

[PickUrPoison]

A contract is a contract. Keep up with the annual requirements, or lose the incentives. It may be premature to just write it off because "it seems unrealistic". Let it play out as written in the contract, and let the chips, or displays, fall where they may.

Well they lost the incredibly valuable incentive last year, so now the $4 billion giveaway is only a $3.99 billion giveaway. Woo hoo.

Cancel the deal now. Cut your losses. No sense in throwing good money after bad. File suit against Foxconn for fraud or whatever if possible.

It’s not just TVs, Foxconn won’t be able to manufacture anything there on a cost competitive basis. Unless it’s filled with robots, with a couple dozen techs to keep them running. So much for 13,000 jobs.

 

[GuruZac]

Americans can’t compete with manufacturing costs of third world countries and expect to pay the same for the products made in US. There are almost no regulations there, the quality of living is lower and cheaper. Labor gets paid a fraction.
It’s a pipe dream. Adapt or die.
Still amazes me how Americans still fall for this political BS.

Completely agree. It’s fairly obvious our political system thrives on the lack of intelligence of the average American voter. Buzz words and catch phrases, looking good and sounding good all win elections.

 

[6502]

Americans can’t compete with manufacturing costs of third world countries and expect to pay the same for the products made in US. There are almost no regulations there, the quality of living is lower and cheaper. Labor gets paid a fraction.
It’s a pipe dream. Adapt or die.
Still amazes me how Americans still fall for this political BS.

In other words, we should be happy slave labor and complete disregard for worker safety and the environment exists somewhere in the world so we can take advantage of it and get our crap super cheap. Got it.

 

[GuruZac]

I live in Milwaukee, WI and don't know anyone who doesn't have a job that actually wants one. That is in the most urban area in the entire state, so I have no idea where these 12,000 people are going to come from to fill these jobs. I do enjoy living here, taxes are low, and there is a alot to do. But the taxes and tax breaks are probably too low (doubt you'll ever hear me say that again!) resulting in roads that are absolutely awful and poor education.

That sounds like poor leadership too. America is plagued with some of the lowest IQ, least morally sound political leaders on this blue marble. Staggering how poorly run America is across the board. It shows too in our education and national priorities.

 

[russofris]

How is it possible that the WI government doesn't know this is a scam?

 

[PickUrPoison]

How is it possible that the WI government doesn't know this is a scam?

Oh they know. The previous governor of Wisconsin perpetrated this scam on the voters in a (thankfully) failed attempt to get re-elected. The new Governor wants to renegotiate the deal, as mentioned in the article.
[doublepost=1555711790][/doublepost]

In other words, we should be happy slave labor and complete disregard for worker safety and the environment exists somewhere in the world so we can take advantage of it and get our crap super cheap. Got it.

OP said nothing of the sort. He/she described the reality of the situation—for economic reasons manufacturing is dead in the US, for the most part. Those jobs aren’t coming back, and the former factory workers who think politicians can or even want to change that need to deal with reality: those jobs are never coming back. (Unless you’re willing to work for $2/hr.)

 

[gugy]

In other words, we should be happy slave labor and complete disregard for worker safety and the environment exists somewhere in the world so we can take advantage of it and get our crap super cheap. Got it.

LOL
Totally out of point.

 

[predation]

Scammed again by ☝️

 

[6502]

Oh they know. The previous governor of Wisconsin perpetrated this scam on the voters in a (thankfully) failed attempt to get re-elected. The new Governor wants to renegotiate the deal, as mentioned in the article.
[doublepost=1555711790][/doublepost]
OP said nothing of the sort. He/she described the reality of the situation—for economic reasons manufacturing is dead in the US, for the most part. Those jobs aren’t coming back, and the former factory workers who think politicians can or even want to change that need to deal with reality: those jobs are never coming back. (Unless you’re willing to work for $2/hr.)

Why do you think "for economic reasons manufacturing is dead in the US, for the most part" but still possible in China? Because they pay slave wages (like you admit, 2$/hr, likely much less) and have no regard for the environment and human rights. But hey, we can get our crap for cheap so who cares.

 

[alphaod]

I wouldn't call Foxconn, Apple's supplier, more a manufacturing partner.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Why do you think "for economic reasons manufacturing is dead in the US, for the most part" but still possible in China? Because they pay slave wages (like you admit, 2$/hr, likely much less) and have no regard for the environment and human rights. But hey, we can get our crap for cheap so who cares.

Speak for yourself. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean I and others don’t.

Like I said, for economic reasons manufacturing is dead in the US, for the most part. It’s not coming back. Don’t believe politicians who lie to you to get you to vote for them. Those jobs are not coming back, unless you’re willing to work for $2/hour. I’m not sure why you’re so angry with people that speak the truth, but that’s on you.

You mis-characterized my post (and that of @gugy as well, for that matter) and you know it. Don’t try to read more into it than I wrote. Stop trying to stuff words in my mouth with your royal “we”.

btw I especially do not appreciate your use of the word “admit” above, as if I reluctantly or begrudgingly conceded that point.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

What I quoted from Tony Evers was never mentioned in the Macrumors article that he called the 13,000 jobs ‘unrealistic’. That’s what I was getting at.

That’s the entire point of this article. He was right, it’s completely unrealistic, not going to happen, and it was fairly obvious from the start, when by the first Town Hall with representatives of the company and planners, it was asked by the public what assurances there were that all jobs wouldn’t be extremely short-term assembly development posts that would be replaced by automation within months, and no one would stand behind those numbers or any other numbers. The big thanks from Chicago’s mayor to Wisconsin, for providing all those jobs to his border-hopping citizens, while we happily eat the costs of building and policing such a massive economic corridor to enable them, with no objections by anyone, began to make clear how the operating costs & benefits of the thing were expected to play out even in a best case scenario.

It was a half-baked giveaway racket our previous cross-eyed dope of a governor could stamp on a flag and wave around in his DOA 2016 presidential election campaign, which he hoped, along with busting unions, making our public works companies his own private property, and encouraging the most destructive companies to trash the most fragile and protected places entire state for bragging rights, would endear him with our growing fascist faction. It worked, too. ...except there weren’t quite as many of them as he thought. Or needed.

 

[6502]

Speak for yourself. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean I and others don’t.

Like I said, for economic reasons manufacturing is dead in the US, for the most part. It’s not coming back. Don’t believe politicians who lie to you to get you to vote for them. Those jobs are not coming back, unless you’re willing to work for $2/hour. I’m not sure why you’re so angry with people that speak the truth, but that’s on you.

You mis-characterized my post (and that of @gugy as well, for that matter) and you know it. Don’t try to read more into it than I wrote. Stop trying to stuff words in my mouth with your royal “we”.

btw I especially do not appreciate your use of the word “admit” above, as if I reluctantly or begrudgingly conceded that point.

You said several times "manufacturing is dead in the US ... unless you're willing to work for $2/hr". These are your words. You know damn well that $2/hr is slave wages and we're willing to accept that (along with human rights abuse and environmental damage) so we can get our crap for cheap. I never said I don't care; if I didn't I wouldn't be writing this.

I'm proud of what this nation once was and what it will become one day. Sadly, today we're just a bunch of MBAs, investment bankers, logistic managers, import/export managers and a few software engineers sprinkled in. When we lose our next war because we can't make ball bearings anymore, then things will change. But, unlike half of America, and apparently you too, I am not a defeatist.