Foxconn to Begin Making MacBooks in Vietnam as Early as May 2023

[Technerd108]

Which major smartphone company(s) manufactures their phones in the United States?

And how many phones are manufactured per day? Is it anywhere even close to Apple's 600,000+ iPhones manufactured every day of the year?

Purism– Librem 5 USA

Introducing the – Librem 5 USA by Purism

puri.sm

There is no major smartphone company making phones in the USA. I never said there was?

Of course they don't have the scale of Apple production.

The point is if a small company with much less money and R&D can make a phone in the USA then Apple could certainly do so.

 

[citysnaps]

Purism– Librem 5 USA

Introducing the – Librem 5 USA by Purism

puri.sm

There is no major smartphone company making phones in the USA. I never said there was?

Of course they don't have the scale of Apple production.

The point is if a small company with much less money and R&D can make a phone in the USA then Apple could certainly do so.

"There is no major smartphone company making phones in the USA. I never said there was?"

But Apple makes smartphones.

Where in the United States can Apple have 600,000+ iPhones manufactured, tested, and shipped every day of the year, including supply chain management, etc.

 

[svish]

Good to see this happening!!

 

[Technerd108]

"There is no major smartphone company making phones in the USA. I never said there was?"

But Apple makes smartphones.

Where in the United States can Apple have 600,000+ iPhones manufactured, tested, and shipped every day of the year, including supply chain management, etc.

Oh I don't know, maybe they could build one?

It just seems like you want to find an excuse why they need to manufacture somewhere else?

Of course I also said for the US market not global market. I don't think the US market needs over half a million phones a day?

They can manufacture in different areas for different markets. They don't all have to be made in one place.

 

[0924487]

Market forces dictate the value. The value is based on what people are willing to pay.

A plumber in Michigan may charge $250 for a service that may be $400 in NYC, $150 in Georgia or $40 in Mexico. Is anyone evil in this example?

Let’s go one step further. The employee working for the plumber may get $30 / hour in Michigan, $50 in NYC, $18 in Georgia and $5 in Mexico. Is the employer in Mexico evil because he pays $5 when the same employee would make ten times that in NY? Is the NY employer evil because he charges ten times the cost to the homeowner than the plumber in Mexico?

What I think you’re referring to is inequality in a person’s skills, talents and abilities. As a society we have an obligation not to discriminate against certain classes, race, religion, etc. However we must discriminate against abilities and talents. We don’t want an artist to perform surgery anymore than a doctor to fix a broken pipe or either to build a skyscraper.

What if someone in Asia has ability, but there is no market to compensate for that ability, where as in the US, he can? Since worker's mobility is limited across countries, employers will pay the lowest amount they can get away with and get an advntage in international trade. Hence, people from one side of the world is subsidizing the people on the other side of the world. Then, when you factor in the printing press, and how other countries keep USD as foreign reserves, which lowers the valuation of their currency to ensure FX security, you will see how wealth is aggregately transfered from one side to the other.


Also, "market forces" kept Bangladesh poor. Not all parties can equally benefit from trade. Not unless they play strategically, like China or Taiwan.

 

[Natrium]

Good move diversifying the supply chain and thereby reducing risks for Apple, its shareholders and customers, which aligns with Apple’s directors fiduciary duty to the company to act in its best interest.

 

[CarAnalogy]

What keeps costs down is people living in areas with a lower cost of living.

There are many areas in the world that have low costs of living yet do not suppress their citizens. There are even first-world countries where a family can survive happily on a salary what would be considered near poverty here in the US.

A government can do a lot to harass its citizenry and keep them down. But a government can also allow for personal freedoms and encourage commercial investment yet still allow the market to dictate salaries which has the dual benefit of bringing jobs to the area and providing socioeconomic growth.

It sounds like to me the US is the one with the economic problems. We are going the wrong direction in personal freedoms, salaries, and buying power all at the same time.

 

[DownUnderDan]

I'm not sure how building your Apple products in another communist country on the border to China, adds to your production supply security, but I guess the Apple execs will feign surprise if things blow up with China and the region in general, if/when that happens. We'll get the "who could have known" speeches rolled out.

 

[brofkand]

Again...where in the United States will Apple be able to manufacture 600,000+ iPhones per day (on the average), every day of the year?

Apple's GPM... If it's "gone and not coming back" Apple will be gone.

That's not going to happen.

I'm not sure why they'd need to build every iPhone in the US. Even in the 90's when Apple was near death, they didn't build all their Macs here. They built many here yes, but also had plants in Ireland and Malaysia etc. But even if they had to for some reason build every iPhone for the world's demand here, they could. The facilities may not exist here today, but they will. The capacity to build enough cover glass in the USA for every Apple product didn't exist in 2007 but it does today.

 

[citysnaps]

I'm not sure why they'd need to build every iPhone in the US. Even in the 90's when Apple was near death, they didn't build all their Macs here. They built many here yes, but also had plants in Ireland and Malaysia etc. But even if they had to for some reason build every iPhone for the world's demand here, they could. The facilities may not exist here today, but they will. The capacity to build enough cover glass in the USA for every Apple product didn't exist in 2007 but it does today.

Perhaps you can show your work/analysis to substantiate your claim? Also, assuming some company would be foolish enough to try and build that infrastructure in the US, in your analysis please include the substantially greater assembly costs (especially wages and benefits) Apple will incur and pass on (and burdened with an extra 40% GPM) to iPhone customers, and how that will negatively impact iPhone sales.

iPhone cover glass comes from Corning and was marketed/pitched to SJ. The infrastructure existed when in 2008 a glass screen replaced the plastic screen used in the 2007 iPhone. Also...there is no comparison in mass-producing a sheet of coverglass to assembling an iPhone.

 

[Technerd108]

Perhaps you can show your work/analysis to substantiate your claim? Also, assuming some company would be foolish enough to try and build that infrastructure in the US, in your analysis please include the substantially greater assembly costs (especially wages and benefits) Apple will incur and pass on (and burdened with an extra 40% GPM) to iPhone customers, and how that will negatively impact iPhone sales.

iPhone cover glass comes from Corning and was marketed/pitched to SJ. The infrastructure existed when in 2008 a glass screen replaced the plastic screen used in the 2007 iPhone. Also...there is no comparison in mass-producing a sheet of coverglass to assembling an iPhone.

Your doom and gloom perspective on domestic production show a negative point of view that suggests that you have some reason other than cost of iPhone that you want production to stay as it is?

Apple can make their products anywhere they want to and as I stated most of the production of phones is automated by machine. So cost of workers is irrelevant except for some final assembly.

Once you can produce the parts here cost of production here in USA would not be significantly higher. Yes it would cost a bit more but maybe Apple could afford to cut some profits to stay competitive.

I imagine that if the average American knew that iPhones were now built and produced in the US it might have a significant positive impact on sales since no other company but one that I know of is doing so and certainly no major producers of phones.

Sure there would be a lot of headaches and work to be done to accomplish such a task but it could be done and it would benefit our economy and workers as well as our national security.

But as long as there are people with vested interests against such an endeavor and they can justify their greed or other agendas nothing will happen.

If Toyota can make cars here and it is profitable then so can Apple make phones here and be profitable. It is simply a matter of priorities. And right now the biggest priority for Apple is access to one of the largest consumer markets in the world and not much else. Add to that logistics and cost of labor and scale of production and what they are doing makes sense but not everything done in business should just focus on profit. Business can be ethical, prioritize it's country of origin and make profits too.

 

[citysnaps]

Your doom and gloom perspective on domestic production show a negative point of view that suggests that you have some reason other than cost of iPhone that you want production to stay as it is?

Apple can make their products anywhere they want to and as I stated most of the production of phones is automated by machine. So cost of workers is irrelevant except for some final assembly.

Once you can produce the parts here cost of production here in USA would not be significantly higher. Yes it would cost a bit more but maybe Apple could afford to cut some profits to stay competitive.

I imagine that if the average American knew that iPhones were now built and produced in the US it might have a significant positive impact on sales since no other company but one that I know of is doing so and certainly no major producers of phones.

Sure there would be a lot of headaches and work to be done to accomplish such a task but it could be done and it would benefit our economy and workers as well as our national security.

But as long as there are people with vested interests against such an endeavor and they can justify their greed or other agendas nothing will happen.

If Toyota can make cars here and it is profitable then so can Apple make phones here and be profitable. It is simply a matter of priorities. And right now the biggest priority for Apple is access to one of the largest consumer markets in the world and not much else. Add to that logistics and cost of labor and scale of production and what they are doing makes sense but not everything done in business should just focus on profit. Business can be ethical, prioritize it's country of origin and make profits too.

Doom and gloom? Nope. Nice try. I'm speaking as an engineer who has experience bringing products to market using contract assembly.

Seems you do as well. Please contact Tim C and Craig F and help them out with your insight on bringing iPhone assembly to the United States. In the meant time... please show your work and analysis with real numbers,

 

[Technerd108]

Doom and gloom? Nope. Nice try. I'm speaking as an engineer who has experience bringing products to market using contract assembly.

Seems you do as well. Please contact Tim C and Craig F and help them out with your insight on bringing iPhone assembly to the United States. In the meant time... please show your work and analysis with real numbers,

I am nobody. I am not expert as you as an engineer nor do I have experience bringing products to market with contract assembly.

I do understand mindsets and perseverance. I understand that as a business you can make anything anywhere if you have the vision, dedication and willingness to do so.

It won't be easy. It won't cost nothing. It won't be free if they simply move production of iPhones, tablets and Mac's to the USA. But it is the right thing to do. It protects America in many ways. But the right thing to do is often times not the easy or profitable thing to do.

If cost and ease of doing something are the only factors then they should only increase production in China. Forget diversification and focus on fixing the problems there. Strengthen the supply chain there and have multiple factories in China to produce iPhones so if there is an issue at one the other will still be productive.

Talk with Chinese leadership on how to ensure stable production and give support to local leadership there.

Apple from a profit perspective should just double down in China because no one else can match the expertise, supply chain and scale of production that can be done there. This has been the thinking for many years and a company that says they care about things like the environment, civil rights and freedom, should really not be making their products in places that don't also embrace those ideals. Sometimes money and profit has to be balanced with ethics and ideals combined with morality.

But again I am an idiot and know nothing. I am sure whatever you think is better for us all.

 

[citysnaps]

I am nobody. I am not expert as you as an engineer nor do I have experience bringing products to market with contract assembly.

I do understand mindsets and perseverance. I understand that as a business you can make anything anywhere if you have the vision, dedication and willingness to do so.

It won't be easy. It won't cost nothing. It won't be free if they simply move production of iPhones, tablets and Mac's to the USA. But it is the right thing to do. It protects America in many ways. But the right thing to do is often times not the easy or profitable thing to do.

If cost and ease of doing something are the only factors then they should only increase production in China. Forget diversification and focus on fixing the problems there. Strengthen the supply chain there and have multiple factories in China to produce iPhones so if there is an issue at one the other will still be productive.

Talk with Chinese leadership on how to ensure stable production and give support to local leadership there.

Apple from a profit perspective should just double down in China because no one else can match the expertise, supply chain and scale of production that can be done there. This has been the thinking for many years and a company that says they care about things like the environment, civil rights and freedom, should really not be making their products in places that don't also embrace those ideals. Sometimes money and profit has to be balanced with ethics and ideals combined with morality.

But again I am an idiot and know nothing. I am sure whatever you think is better for us all.

"I am sure whatever you think is better for us all."

Stop it with the sideways/oblique insults.


"Apple from a profit perspective should just double down in China because no one else can match the expertise, supply chain and scale of production that can be done there."

Of course not. And where has "doubling down" entered the conversation? No need to exaggerate in order to make your case..

I would LOVE to see all of Apple's manufacturing done in the US; or at least in a country that has a better political/human rights track record than China. I just don't see that happening now, especially in the US, for a variety of reasons, some of which I mentioned above.

Some iPhone manufacturing is being done in India. That's a start, and hopefully the results will be good.

 

[Technerd108]

"I am sure whatever you think is better for us all."

Stop it with the sideways/oblique insults.


"Apple from a profit perspective should just double down in China because no one else can match the expertise, supply chain and scale of production that can be done there."

Of course not. And where has "doubling down" entered the conversation? No need to exaggerate in order to make your case..

I would LOVE to see all of Apple's manufacturing done in the US; or at least in a country that has a better political/human rights track record than China. I just don't see that happening now, especially in the US, for a variety of reasons, some of which I mentioned above.

Some iPhone manufacturing is being done in India. That's a start, and hopefully the results will be good.

Not trying to insult you but when you say things like this,

"I'm speaking as an engineer who has experience bringing products to market using contract assembly.

Seems you do as well. Please contact Tim C and Craig F and help them out with your insight on bringing iPhone assembly to the United States. In the meant time... please show your work and analysis with real numbers,"

You kind of seem like you have an attitude that you are some type of expert and asking for a analysis with real numbers to an informal discussion seems a bit much. You are basically saying that because of your experience you know more than I do. Is that not a little insulting? Asking to show my work is just, well......you get my point hopefully.

But it seems ultimately that we agree but because you can only see it as unrealistic you dismiss the idea and ask for proof it is possible. Yes India is a start but Vietnam is not much different than China unfortunately. Heck build them in Mexico and USA if labor costs are so prohibitive. South Korea would be nice, Taiwan as long as they can keep their country as it is.

But ultimately the offshoring of highly skilled jobs to countries outside the US is a problem. Exporting our manufacturing base has been a huge factor in the lower standard of living for anyone without a college degree. If you don't produce anything then you don't add any value but instead act as a parasite taking a cut off the exploitation of cheap labor and Globalization. Globalization is a problem. I am all for free trade in various countries. It is the exploitation of cheap labor combined with lax environmental standards that make it a predatory practice that hurts both countries while only the corporations profit.

I think capitalism is great when it has a high ethical standard and has at its core the idea of giving back to communities and pays a high wage to raise everyone standard of living. Right now we are all living under ruthless capitalism decoupled from any moral compass other than profit. It will burn out at some point and all we will have left is ash.

Capitalism based on a high ethical standard is the largest creator of boosting the standard of living for everyone. Apple being a trillion dollar company could be one of the few corporations with enough capital to actually institute a change.

 

[citysnaps]

You kind of seem like you have an attitude that you are some type of expert and asking for a analysis with real numbers to an informal discussion seems a bit much. You are basically saying that because of your experience you know more than I do. Is that not a little insulting? Asking to show my work is just, well......you get my point hopefully.

Hardly an expert, but I do have experience, including making a business case for a product's success. I assumed you did as well with your confidence about moving iPhone assembly to the US as reasonable. Thus, I wanted to see your analysis.