french site annonce that the graphic cards of the new mac pro are on daughter cards

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by fhenry, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. fhenry macrumors regular

    Feb 28, 2012
  2. slughead macrumors 68040


    Apr 28, 2004

    When did google's translator become freaking amazing?
  3. iBug2 macrumors 68040

    Jun 12, 2005
  4. lilabila macrumors member

    Mar 27, 2011

    Count me into that, if true, this news is amazing
  5. slughead macrumors 68040


    Apr 28, 2004
    All this is saying is that it's likely technically possible to upgrade, not that there will be any cards to upgrade to by 3rd parties or Apple themselves. It makes no allusions to that possibility, either. This isn't really news (to me, anyway).
  6. dollystereo macrumors 6502a


    Oct 6, 2004
    the only news here is that the GPU are not soldered, they are somehow connected with a propietary apple connector to the logic board. So any manufacturer could make cards.
  7. AidenShaw macrumors P6


    Feb 8, 2003
    The Peninsula
    Didn't this picture from MacWorld in June make this fact obvious?

    (click to enlarge)
  8. mslide macrumors 6502a

    Sep 17, 2007
    That doesn't mean anything. It's a proprietary card that's used in a very niche product. Plus, this is a market where I'd bet that the majority of the users work for companies who are more than willing to just completely upgrade the machine when the time comes.

    Yes, it did.
  9. frankiee macrumors member

    May 31, 2008
    Sure? Only bc one website says that it could be technically possible?

    Ooookay, so let's think about the "old" Mac Pro. I think you all agree that in this case it was much easier to offer a Mac specific card, bc only the BIOS would change, and not the form factor.

    Now, how many Mac specific cards were actually offered in the last 7 years? And do you really think this situation will improve, now that also a completely proprietary and custom PCB design is needed in addition? C'mon ;)

    PS: no, just flashing a ROM, or even using stock cards in "plug'n'play" fashion with already existing OS X drivers (see NVIDIA) would NOT be possible anymore.

    I'd say, you can be very happy if you even get ONE upgrade possibility in the next 2-3 years, and it will be quite expensive, that's for sure. Also not sure if that would include a NVIDA option.

    Let's face it: the new Mac Pro is a disposable device, not intended for upgrading at all (besides storage maybe). So, if you need a new GPU, you might as well throw your trash can in the trash can and get a new one ..... quite sad, but that's the way I see it now.
  10. JronMasteR macrumors 6502


    May 4, 2011
    I don't think we're going to see such GPU upgrades from anyone. Making GPU's for the classic Mac Pro was very easy, but there were only very few.
    The nMP is to be upgraded via TB least that is what Apple wants you to do.
  11. ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    We definitely won't have access to the plethora of PCIe cards that we do now.

    But I think when the nMP2 comes out it will have updated GPU boards and then you can buy them separately to upgrade the nMP1. This is how it often worked with the cheese graters and I don't see why that would stop as long as Apple sells spare parts.

    I also think the price to do this will be exorbitantly expensive.
  12. Macsonic macrumors 65816


    Sep 6, 2009
    Yep you may be correct. I am not an expert in industrial engineering though as far as I know the die cast templates, machineries and workers may make the price higher. I watched the video on how Apple makes the cylinder enclosure of the new Mac Pro and seeing the machinery, the robotics and hundreds of staff they use; I think the enclosure alone does not come cheap. Before the announcement, people assumed, with a smaller enclosure and lower shipping cost, the retail price of the NMac Pro will be lower and we still need to factor out added cost on external devices.
  13. MacVidCards Suspended

    Nov 17, 2008
    Hollywood, CA
    Jeez Louise !! This isn't news.

    It somehow is a front page news story, showing how starved MR is to get anything nonmobile there.

    I want everyone to sit back and think for a moment.

    The pix CLEARLY show the PCIE SSD as an included component of one GPU. Obviously Apple will be doing an "upgrade/bump" when they solder on the parts for 2nd one.

    Who here really believes that companies who could barely be bothered to write an EFI rom are going to design PCBs that include Apple's TB2 AND PCIE SSD circuitry?

    What happens when TB3 comes out? What happens when they switch PCIE SSDs components?

    I can't believe that nobody thought about this before calling it front page news. Finding that D500 is FOR SURE Tahiti LE in 7870XT far more news worthy than this.

    Did no one else think about that PCIE SSD? It isn't glued on and using wireless to talk to CPU. It's wired THROUGH the GPU card.

    "French news site announces that going outside while it is raining will cause you to become wet"

    There is some useful news. And just as surprising.
  14. wonderspark macrumors 68040


    Feb 4, 2010
    Don't forget that there will be a frustrating firmware change that has to be hacked in order for the new GPU boards to be recognized.
  15. MacVidCards Suspended

    Nov 17, 2008
    Hollywood, CA
    On 2nd thought....

    There is a 2nd possibility.

    Apple must know that there are hurdles to selling this machine.

    One of them is GPU.

    How many 1,1s would still be in use if most were still stuck with 7300GT or X1900?

    How many 2008s would be in studios working with 2600XT or 8800GTs in them?

    So, perhaps they have made or will make a deal with AMD or Nvidia.

    They actually have a unique situation, they can literally offer up 100% of the GPU upgrade market to someone.

    No worries about home flashers using released firmwares.

    No worries that industrious folks will use a mid level firmware to write EFI for better cards than offered by whoever and steal their thunder. (Have a look at Barefeats tests re 680 vs 780)

    Apple provides pin outs for how PCBs need to be designed. They can in 6 months give this 3rd party an actual list of how many nMPs have been sold and an exact listing of which ones had what GPUs.

    Then they let everyone twist in the wind a little while. New apps come out needing more power that isn't in those Pitcairn D300s. (Have a look in the iMac section for people desperate to regain relevancy for their machine but unable to do so due to GPU either soldered or on a tricky MXM board)

    Once the demand builds to a high enough level it becomes worth it for a board partner to crank up a line of "upgrades". Perhaps the new Hawaii series? (TDP may be an issue, they caught up to 780 by the "brute force" method)

    In any case, if sufficient units have sold to warrant demand, they can literally offer a monopoly on the market to anyone interested in firing up a plant. Heck, they could do it themselves and keep it all in house.

    Point being, by removing the bleed of "do it yourself" and "I'll just run down to Fry's and live without a boot screen" they can literally manipulate the market to work.

    The other time they tried this with the ADC cards, they didn't stray far enough from AGP. It was possible to use Non-ADC cards with ADC firmware and have working DVI. This time there is no way to just jam a card in or tape off a few errant pins that Apple used contrary to spec.

    I seriously doubt that PNY is going to reverse engineer the PCIE SSD connections AND the TB connections and create cards WITHOUT Apple handing them the blueprints and specs. But the ability to literally offer 100% of a market is unique and potentially quite lucrative. So maybe there is hope for future upgrades that aren't just over-priced repair parts.

    The other option is a new class of office bandit. Late night cleaning staff recognizes a pair of D700s in a showy black canister. When the ad exec shows up for work next AM his Mac Pro lays open, and bereft of GPU cards. All one needs is a Torx wrench to start a nice sideline.

    But an Apple granted monopoly with a "finders fee" going back to APple could work.
  16. slughead, Oct 27, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013

    slughead macrumors 68040


    Apr 28, 2004
    They need to sell enough to bring the demand up though, otherwise redesigning the software and hardware to work with the nMP wont be worth it.

    How much would a redesign of a GTX780 or Quadro 6000 cost? $1,000,000 (* insert Dr Evil pose here *) ? Now you need to put aside resources, labor, and space at a factory. Then comes rebranding, marketing, packaging, negotiating, distribution, etc.

    Plus there's opportunity cost: All these people doing these things have to be taken off other projects that may be more lucrative, by the way.

    Then you have to convince a bunch of Professionals to give up their machines for a few days (and pay a fee) so the "Geniuses" at the Apple Store will install them, because only Apple, super-nerds, and serial killers have torx screwdrivers.

    Sure, they could mark it up 100%+... but the volume is going to be very anemic.

    Apple could fudge their software to cut out D300 users, but they can only push users so far before they just switch platforms. The nMP is already going to squeeze a lot of people out of Mac OS, how much more are they willing to lose just to make a few bucks off the people they have left.

    Eventually the market will intervene--Microsoft will make a decent OS (Win 7 isn't the worst thing in the world) or some enterprising company will make decent GPU drivers and pro software for Linux. It will happen, eventually.

    I think it's highly unlikely 3rd party cards will enter the market, given that I doubt the sales of the MP will pan out (3 grand for a Quad with 256GB? Please.). I think Apple will sell a bunch, but not nearly enough to attract enough 3rd parties to the GPU and professional thunderbolt market.

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