Fresh install of OSX Tiger... no classic?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by hartleymartin, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. hartleymartin macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #1
    I put a new Hard Disk into my PowerMac G5. I re-installed OSX Tiger, but there is no classic environment. Not sure how that happened. I've tried to re-install again using the discs, but I cannot find what happened to Classic Environment. What am I doing wrong?
     
  2. Ih8reno macrumors 65816

    Ih8reno

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    #2
    Pretty sure you need an os 9 system folder if I recall correctly
     
  3. chrfr macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    #3
    It's been a while but I think the bundled applications and Classic were on a separate disc.
     
  4. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #4
    Turns out that I have other issues to deal with. I managed to buy the one brand 500GB HDD which apparently won't work properly in the G5. Went through some old Apple help pages and it turns out that Seagate 500GB 3.5" HDDs don't play nice with G5s but Western Digital ones do. So the Seagate drive is going to get swapped with one of the Western Digital Drives in my Mac Pro so I can get the darn thing working again!
     
  5. AmazingHenry macrumors 65816

    AmazingHenry

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    #5
    For Classic, you need OS 9 installed on your hard drive. And you can't boot from an OS 9 CD, so there's no good way for you to get it installed. Most Apple computers from the time came with install discs for OS 9 that could be used under OS X to install Classic. If you don't have it, it's going to be hard to get Classic.
     
  6. headsh0t95 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    #6
  7. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #7
    Tiger was launched after Steve Jobs declared OS9 to be dead (even had a funeral for it). Consequently, Apple dropped support for OS9 with Tiger.

    Lots of people (at the time) mistook that to mean that Tiger would not allow the Classic environment. It does, but the only way to get Classic installed with Tiger is to copy over a fully functional OS9 environment.

    In other words, you can't install Classic while being booted in OS X.

    Leopard is, of course, where Apple truly killed Classic.
     
  8. mzs.112000 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2015
    #8
  9. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #9
    Just curious why you would use Sheepshaver on Tiger for OS9 instead of just using Classic natively within Tiger?

    Tiger will run the Classic environment natively. OP just needs to copy over a working install.
     
  10. mzs.112000 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2015
    #10
    I was just saying that SheepShaver would work as well, if I used Tiger, then I would use the native Classic environment.
    And I was also asking if thats all the OP used Tiger for was Classic, because you can get more up-to-date software(web browser, video player) on Leopard(unless your Mac won't support Leopard)
     
  11. ITguy2016 Suspended

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    #11
    Hard to believe how long classic Mac OS has been gone. It seemed to take forever for OS X to arrive and, once it did, for it to become the standard. As an early adopter of OS X I don't have a good reference as to when classic Mac OS occurred. It really is amazing how long OS X has been Apple's OS.
     
  12. AmazingHenry macrumors 65816

    AmazingHenry

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    #12
    There is no reason to use SheepShaver under Tiger on PowerPC, I hope no one ever does. The Classic Enviorment is 1000x better. On any system (PowerPC or Intel), the easiest and best way to run OS 9 (in my opinion) it to buy an older G3 Mac, perhaps a Snow iBook G3. They are affordable, and they run OS 9 pretty well. But if you have Tiger on a PowerPC Mac, just use Classic.
     
  13. ITguy2016 Suspended

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    #13
    I just fired up my 500MHz, 256MB Snow iBook G3 and was amazed at the speed. With a modern OS that system would likely be unusable. Which is sad given how peppy it is with Mac OS 9. If Apple could have built proper memory protection and multitasking underneath it I'd be happy with classic Mac OS.
     
  14. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #14
    I can remember when the big deal was OS X 10.1.5. Because that allowed (finally) SMB connections to Windows computers.

    And I can also remember a discussion with my then Production Manager about how Apple couldn't call OS X Jaguar 'Jaguar' in Australia because that name was copyrighted by an Australian business.

    And lastly I can remember being excited about installing Jaguar because it was the first really usable version of OS X in a graphic design production environment.

    But it wasn't until Panther, which was a really solid version of OS X, that I became wholeheartedly OS X centric.

    If I could port Panther's stability with Snow Leopard's GUI that'd be awesome. I could literally do major, major stuff with Panther as far as copying, printing and deleting files all at the same time.

    Then along came Tiger in my environment…and now because of that experience I do not do copy and delete operations at the same time and never more than two at once. Even with Leopard and beyond.
     
  15. MrPilot, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016

    MrPilot macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    #15
    I found OS9 online and I just copied to the HD and it worked. Took like one hour. I believe I still have the os on my app backup HD somewhere...

    edit:

    OS9General.dmg is what you need... take the system folder and place it in the root of your HD and tiger should pick it up when starting classic.
     
  16. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #16
    This is being made way more complicated than it has to be.

    Beg, steal, or borrow an OS 9 system folder from somewhere. You can dig around and get the Netboot image from Apple's website, take one from a computer with OS 9 installed, or even use the second of the Quad restore disks. There's probably a bootable system folder on Apple's website.

    Drag and drop it onto your hard drive. Go to Classic under "System Preferences" and tell the computer where it is if it doesn't find it.

    Job done.
     
  17. AmazingHenry macrumors 65816

    AmazingHenry

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    #17
    I really don't understand why you hate Tiger so much. Everybody else says it's stable and fast. It must be a problem with your computer, not Tiger.
     
  18. eyoungren, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016

    eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #18
    It wasn't my computer.

    And I did explain that on my personal laptop it was fine. I used it for a few years on my Titanum PowerBook.

    But at work…it wasn't the G5 or the G4.

    We had a Windows Small Business Server 2003. Connecting and working on the server under Jaguar and Panther was just fine. Never had any issues, especially with Panther. Both on the G5 and the G4. My issues with Tiger went away when we upgraded to Leopard.

    But once I installed Tiger is when we had issues. Nothing changed on the server, nothing changed on the G4 or the G5 except installing Tiger.

    I was forced at one point to install DAVE (A SMB client sold by Thursby) just to be able to do the same things I was doing under Panther.

    I only have one install of Tiger running at work now and that's on our Applescript server, still running DAVE. Since it does one particular thing there's been no issues really except that I discovered that Tiger's capabilities as a print server for the MacPro suck.

    I don't have an aversion to installing Tiger on my own personal Macs, but those Macs tend to be for specific purposes and are not daily drivers. So, I don't completely hate it.

    And BTW. I hate Mavericks about as much. It's pisspoor implementation of SMB2 has cost me more lost work than I can count. Thankfully Yosemite fixed that. But having to work under forced SMB1 just to get the job done on Mavericks was irritating.

    EDIT: I did have to change things on our server, now that I recall when we first got Tiger.

    I had to turn off digital signing. I had to make sure that passwords were not encryped and sent in clear text. And I had to disable a few other SMB specific things.

    If the server had a forced restart before I could disconnect shares it meant that I had to repair the network connection on the server or the Macs would transfer files at a very slow rate. Never had to do that with Jag or Panther (or Leopard).

    If I was working away in QuarkXPress and updated a TIF file, QuarkXPress would not register that the file was modified. This wasn't the problem with the program, this was a problem with Finder not updating server shares. Which was always ANOTHER problem I had. I always had to force Tiger to update a folder on the server whenever there was a new file dropped into it.

    It still happens with our Tiger Applescript server.

    All of this improved when I installed DAVE, so this could not be the problem of the computer.
     
  19. jbarley macrumors 68030

    jbarley

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    #19
    A google search comes up with several-many links for downloading the OS9 system folder.
     
  20. ITguy2016 Suspended

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    #20
    What issues are you experiencing with copy and delete operations?
     
  21. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #21
    I'm not now.

    But with Tiger I could not do more than two copy operations or delete operations. If I did, Finder would crash and beachball. If I waited a couple hours it would eventually recover, but I don't have that kind of time at work.

    Combining a copy operation and a delete operation together also resulted in a Finder crash.

    This was down to Tiger's implementation of SMB/CIFS. Installing DAVE eliminated a lot of this. So did installing Leopard which allowed me to remove DAVE as Leopard has a much better implementation of SMB. If Leopard drops a connection it tells you and allows you to disconnect. Tiger simply beachballs.

    Mavericks had the problem of dropping the data connection using SMB2 when saving a file within InDesign. InDesign does not just give you an error and close the document however. When Mavericks drops the connection InDesign just full on quits. Any changes you made can be lost.

    The resolution for that was to connect using CIFS, which forces SMB1. But, of course that's slower. Updating the MP at work to Yosemited fixed that.
     
  22. ITguy2016 Suspended

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    #22
    Ah, thanks. I did not realize you were referring to over the network file manipulation.
     
  23. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #23
    Yeah. I will say it again, Tiger on my Titanium PowerBook and my Aluminum PowerBooks was just fine and stable. But Tiger just has a lot of issues with mixed networks and Windows Servers. And that is the main situation I used Tiger in.
     
  24. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #24
    Well, after faffing about for a bit, I discovered that full classic support is on the original OSX 10.2.7 Disc for the PowerMac G5 (I did obtain one) so I decided to try it out by reinstalling 10.2.7, installing Classic Environment from that disc and then upgrading to 10.4.11 using the discs that I have.

    Half-way through the re-installation so I hope things will start working properly soon!
     

Share This Page