From Garmin to Apple: is there an alternative to the Garmin coach that works on the watch?

[grmlin]

Hi all,
my wife has an Apple Watch and we both enjoy Fitness+ a lot. I’m using a Garmin Fenix for years now and while I’m very happy with it, buying and Apple Watch is really tempting. Now with Fitness available in Germany even more.

My biggest question though: I’m planning to run my very first half marathon next April and use the Garmin coach and training plans on my Fenix. It’s implemented very well, works on my watch and I don’t want to loose that. I don’t run with music or my phone, it’s my time off the grid.

I know there are other training plans of course, but I want it to be in my watch while I’m running, telling me what to do next in that training.


I would love to hear about the experiences of others, so thanks for the help!

 

[NME42]

There is iSmoothRun that can sync training plans from TrainingPeaks and Finalsurge.

Stryd has free plans but requires their footpod (which is excellent).

 

[grmlin]

There is iSmoothRun that can sync training plans from TrainingPeaks and Finalsurge.

Stryd has free plans but requires their footpod (which is excellent).

Thanks a lot! All I found was the Nike Run Club app that lost the training plans on the watch feature for some reason. The stryd thing looks great but is pretty expensive. The iSmoothRun works without a phone and supports guided trainings? I’ll look into that.

Im actually surprised that Garmin is the only one offering that out of the box. It’s such an obvious feature for a smart sports watch

 

[mk313]

Im actually surprised that Garmin is the only one offering that out of the box. It’s such an obvious feature for a smart sports watch

I think it's intentional on Apple's part. They offer a lot of software that provides basic capabilities that meets the needs of 90% of customers, and then they don't add features (many times) to leave that last 10% to third party developers, which in turn, build the apple ecosystem. Allowing developers to make money on apps, helps to create demand for the watches (iPads, iPods, Macs, etc) which is good for apple. It seems that way with a lot of their software (workout app, photos app, numbers, keynote, pages, podcasts, etc)

 

[NME42]

Im actually surprised that Garmin is the only one offering that out of the box. It’s such an obvious feature for a smart sports watch

Garmin offers training plans since about three years and I remember the beginning was not so good.
I am little bit skeptical about this feature - not using it - as I am planning my trainings myself based on a training plan I have on paper. Key for me is to adapt the plan on a weekly basis and that is something, most training plans lack.

But agree, with all the data the providers have and clever artificial intelligence mechanisms, they should be able to offer lot better services. But sure they will charge monthly fees for that.

About apps: I think runtastic offers trainings plans too.

 

[grmlin]

Garmin offers training plans since about three years and I remember the beginning was not so good.
I am little bit skeptical about this feature - not using it - as I am planning my trainings myself based on a training plan I have on paper. Key for me is to adapt the plan on a weekly basis and that is something, most training plans lack.

But agree, with all the data the providers have and clever artificial intelligence mechanisms, they should be able to offer lot better services. But sure they will charge monthly fees for that.

About apps: I think runtastic offers trainings plans too.

I didn't even know the coach existed some month ago. And as far as I know, it indeed adapts to your performance and changes the trainings accordingly.

It's limited though, there is no option to change the training scheduled for a day if I don't have the time or whatever. That's a bit annoying. But other than that I'm enjoying it. I'm a runner noob, it's great that the watch tells me what to do while I'm running and the service creates a plan based on my goal (10km in time x for example). I know if I'm hitting my pace or stride frequency, stuff like that.

I mean, I could also just keep using my Garmin watch for running. But I know me, I'll hate it, I don't want to deal with multiple devices. The other option would be to set up Fitness+ once with the watch of my wife and then use it as a fitness video service without one... but this will suck if I understand correctly. I really hate that I can't access the Fitness+ videos without a watch

 

[grmlin]

I think it's intentional on Apple's part. They offer a lot of software that provides basic capabilities that meets the needs of 90% of customers, and then they don't add features (many times) to leave that last 10% to third party developers, which in turn, build the apple ecosystem. Allowing developers to make money on apps, helps to create demand for the watches (iPads, iPods, Macs, etc) which is good for apple. It seems that way with a lot of their software (workout app, photos app, numbers, keynote, pages, podcasts, etc)

Oh true, but it would have been a great addition to a service like Fitness+ I think.

 

[Fireball Dragon]

I have an Apple Watch as my smart watch, and the FR745 as my fitness watch.

AW is hands down the superior smart watch with voice calls, messages, music, etc. But definitely not a sports watch for those who are more serious about their training. Personally couldn’t use a touch screen whilst running, cycling or swimming. Also battery wouldn’t last half the duration of an ultra (or perhaps even for a slower paced marathon…).

Personal and subjective thoughts, but I use both, albeit because (for my needs) they’re different types of watches.

 

[NME42]

Not sure what you mean with „serious with their training“.
I do 15 hours a week on average with my AW. And my AW battery does last for two marathons in a row easily.
Was a user of the higher-end Forerunner models (9xx) and do not miss them. But guess this is because I am not serious with my training.

 

[Fireball Dragon]

Not sure what you mean with „serious with their training“.
I do 15 hours a week on average with my AW. And my AW battery does last for two marathons in a row easily.
Was a user of the higher-end Forerunner models (9xx) and do not miss them. But guess this is because I am not serious with my training.

Didn’t mean any offence, apologies if any was caused.

The Garmin simply has a lot more data to offer for analysis. Not implying anyone who doesn’t use a Garmin is an inferior athlete by any means.

Just saying the AW is a better smart watch. And the Garmin is a better sports watch. (my personal view)

 

[NME42]

Didn’t mean any offence, apologies if any was caused.

The Garmin simply has a lot more data to offer for analysis. Not implying anyone who doesn’t use a Garmin is an inferior athlete by any means.

Just saying the AW is a better smart watch. And the Garmin is a better sports watch. (my personal view)

No problem, I am not offended at all. Just want to point out that a simple classification is not really helpful.

Both watches are Sports Watches AND Smartwatches and I can't draw a line where one fits in one category and the other in the other.

What kind of data is your Garmin watch producing that an AW can't?

 

[Fireball Dragon]

No problem, I am not offended at all. Just want to point out that a simple classification is not really helpful.

Both watches are Sports Watches AND Smartwatches and I can't draw a line where one fits in one category and the other in the other.

What kind of data is your Garmin watch producing that an AW can't?

Phew! Never like to annoy a fellow Apple/Tech enthusiast!!

I much prefer Garmin Connect as a fitness platform. Basic metrics such as cadence, VO2 max, stride length, training effect are so useful. I also look at advanced metrics including vertical oscillation, ground contact time, power, etc. But more curiosity related…

But overall, just think GC works better as a platform. Again, cannot stress enough how subjective this is; probably because I’ve personally been using Garmin since before I got my first AW (in 2015) and just prefer it over Apple Health. So for my own needs, I prefer Garmin for fitness I suppose.

Although I’m genuinely excited about where Apple is heading with using the AW as a health monitoring device. ECG, pulse ox (also on Garmin) and rumoured blood glucose monitoring, etc are all great.

 

[grmlin]

Interesting. I'm still so torn. I don't really need or want the smartwatch features of the Apple Watch (Apple pay would be nice and phone unlocking without a pin), and I prefer the looks of my Fenix A LOT. It's not even a contest.
I also never used a touchscreen watch for training, I like them buttons. But I would really like a new watch and the Fenix 7 is nowhere to be seen...

I guess it's totally stupid to switch platforms for Apple Fitness. It sucks so much that they don't let me just watch the videos.

 

[PaladinGuy]

Interesting. I'm still so torn. I don't really need or want the smartwatch features of the Apple Watch (Apple pay would be nice and phone unlocking without a pin), and I prefer the looks of my Fenix A LOT. It's not even a contest.
I also never used a touchscreen watch for training, I like them buttons. But I would really like a new watch and the Fenix 7 is nowhere to be seen...

I guess it's totally stupid to switch platforms for Apple Fitness. It sucks so much that they don't let me just watch the videos.

I’m tempted by the current sale for the Fenix, but the Fenix 6 series is now over 2 years old (I think). Even at $200 off, that’s old in tech. With Garmin’s history of not giving past versions any new features, I’d be really hard pressed to buy one this late in its production run. Surely a Fenix 7 is coming soon and will include enhanced features.

 

[Fireball Dragon]

Interesting. I'm still so torn. I don't really need or want the smartwatch features of the Apple Watch (Apple pay would be nice and phone unlocking without a pin), and I prefer the looks of my Fenix A LOT. It's not even a contest.
I also never used a touchscreen watch for training, I like them buttons. But I would really like a new watch and the Fenix 7 is nowhere to be seen...

I guess it's totally stupid to switch platforms for Apple Fitness. It sucks so much that they don't let me just watch the videos.

I’m one of those odd people who wear an Apple Watch on one wrist, and my Garmin on the other. My Garmin is pretty much on 24/7, and AW only in the day when I need it most.

They both serve different purposes, and the Garmin is super light i barely notice it is on. Not everyone likes/wants/needs 2 watches though, but works well for me personally.

 

[grmlin]

I’m tempted by the current sale for the Fenix, but the Fenix 6 series is now over 2 years old (I think). Even at $200 off, that’s old in tech. With Garmin’s history of not giving past versions any new features, I’d be really hard pressed to buy one this late in its production run. Surely a Fenix 7 is coming soon and will include enhanced features.

I bought the Fenix 5 when it was quite old already. It works very well and got updates all the time. Not necessarily new features, but it was not forgotten by Garmin yet.

But now that I know how much I utilize my watch to improve my fitness, I want the newest tech this time. The jump from 5 to 6 is also pretty minor, so it's not really appealing to me.

 

[Drock1119]

Not going to lie, I have both the Fenix 6 Pro Solar and the AW7. I prefer the looks of the Fenix and battery of course but with WorkOutDoors app I use the AW7. Garmin is buggy and the HR and GPS tracking are not as good as the AW. The battery of the AW will last for a marathon if needed, if you are an ultra then obviously stick with Garmin. Otherwise, AW will do anything Garmin can do and honestly probably better.

 

[NME42]

I much prefer Garmin Connect as a fitness platform. Basic metrics such as cadence, VO2 max, stride length, training effect are so useful. I also look at advanced metrics including vertical oscillation, ground contact time, power, etc. But more curiosity related…

But overall, just think GC works better as a platform. Again, cannot stress enough how subjective this is; probably because I’ve personally been using Garmin since before I got my first AW (in 2015) and just prefer it over Apple Health. So for my own needs, I prefer Garmin for fitness I suppose.

Been a GC user for a long time and lived through a lot of ugly things there. Nowadays it is a lot better, but my preferred platform is runalyze. It has lots better analysis stuff for runners. Try it out, it is free and if you want, you can donate. Can also easily be attached to your GC account and you have no hassle syncing.
Just one number: their prediction capabilities are really fantastic. Had my target marathon pace almost spot on.

About the running dynamics metrics: I am a number nerd and was enthusiastic when HRM RUN was released. But in the end, the metrics confused me more than they helped. Was looking after every run where my GCT balance is and if there is an injury coming I do not know yet of and stuff like that. What I really learned from these things? Admittedly, not much. My Stryd is recording a lot of metrics also and apart from stride frequency, I do not look at any of these numbers any more. My goal is to run a certain distance at a certain pace and I never got a medal if I ran these with a specific heart rate, stride length or GCT. ?

 

[grmlin]

Not going to lie, I have both the Fenix 6 Pro Solar and the AW7. I prefer the looks of the Fenix and battery of course but with WorkOutDoors app I use the AW7. Garmin is buggy and the HR and GPS tracking are not as good as the AW. The battery of the AW will last for a marathon if needed, if you are an ultra then obviously stick with Garmin. Otherwise, AW will do anything Garmin can do and honestly probably better.

I plan to do a half marathon next year and I don't think I'll go for anything else after that. It's already hard to find the time for the longer runs, and I don't feel like running even longer. Last week I managed to run 18.9km which already is an amazing achievement for me personally.

I will miss the battery life in other activities though. Like hiking in the Alps for hours and hours, skiing, that kind of stuff.

Been a GC user for a long time and lived through a lot of ugly things there. Nowadays it is a lot better, but my preferred platform is runalyze. It has lots better analysis stuff for runners. Try it out, it is free and if you want, you can donate. Can also easily be attached to your GC account and you have no hassle syncing.
Just one number: their prediction capabilities are really fantastic. Had my target marathon pace almost spot on.

About the running dynamics metrics: I am a number nerd and was enthusiastic when HRM RUN was released. But in the end, the metrics confused me more than they helped. Was looking after every run where my GCT balance is and if there is an injury coming I do not know yet of and stuff like that. What I really learned from these things? Admittedly, not much. My Stryd is recording a lot of metrics also and apart from stride frequency, I do not look at any of these numbers any more. My goal is to run a certain distance at a certain pace and I never got a medal if I ran these with a specific heart rate, stride length or GCT. ?

When I got my Fenix 5 GC was a mess, honestly. I don't know how many times I had to reconnect my watch... these days it's fine, and I like how it exports my activities to Strava etc. without problems. Very nice. I also have no idea about all these numbers and metrics, haha. I recently discovered VO2 Max, I really liked that it said I'm like fit like a 20yo ? (I'm 43).

How do you do guys approach guided/structured trainings on an Apple Watch? Maybe I'm overthinking it? Like, 5min warmup, 6 times 30s at a specific stride frequency, 8 times 800m at pace X? My Garmin displays it all idiot proof on my wrist. It shows me if I hit the targeted pace or stride frequency or whatever.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

Didn’t mean any offence, apologies if any was caused.

The Garmin simply has a lot more data to offer for analysis. Not implying anyone who doesn’t use a Garmin is an inferior athlete by any means.

Just saying the AW is a better smart watch. And the Garmin is a better sports watch. (my personal view)

In terms of data analysis it all depends on the HR data collected (garbage in garbage out as the old computer programmer saying goes) Garmins can be more flawed (unless using a chest strap). For this reason I go for the AW and upload to Runalyse for recovery type metrics.
I sold my old AW a few years back and got a Garmin but quickly found I missed the smartwatch features (dictating texts whilst bike riding is pretty cool).
I also realised that I was not the semi-pro athlete I thought I was and there was a bit of data overload from the Garmin. All relative to the individual of course. I didn't wan't to have two watches either so went back to the AW. I go on 50mile bike rides, 12 mile runs, 2 mile open water swims and it records them pretty much flawlessly. Workoutdoors is a nifty app.
Of course, if you are running ultras this is not the watch for that although, as an experiment, I am going to try charging on the go during an extended bike ride and see if it will keep recording an activity.

 

[Fireball Dragon]

In terms of data analysis it all depends on the HR data collected (garbage in garbage out as the old computer programmer saying goes) Garmins can be more flawed (unless using a chest strap). For this reason I go for the AW and upload to Runalyse for recovery type metrics.
I sold my old AW a few years back and got a Garmin but quickly found I missed the smartwatch features (dictating texts whilst bike riding is pretty cool).
I also realised that I was not the semi-pro athlete I thought I was and there was a bit of data overload from the Garmin. All relative to the individual of course. I didn't wan't to have two watches either so went back to the AW. I go on 50mile bike rides, 12 mile runs, 2 mile open water swims and it records them pretty much flawlessly. Workoutdoors is a nifty app.
Of course, if you are running ultras this is not the watch for that although, as an experiment, I am going to try charging on the go during an extended bike ride and see if it will keep recording an activity.

I’ve found resting HR between my Garmin and AW to be almost identical. Keeping them on together for the whole day, can see resting HR is consistent between both. But found (on previous generations of AW) that the HR whilst running was waaaaay out. Like seriously low for me, I knew I wasn’t at 140bpm during said tempo run! And also found the GPS on known routes to be inaccurate with my local parkrun measuring almost 200m shorter. Tried with both watches (series 3 and FR935 back in 2017). Admittedly didn’t try running with my S4… but I have a series 7 coming any day now so am actually keen to see how it performs…

Lots of features from the Garmin make it irreplaceable as a fitness watch for me. Love seeing target, racing previous times, etc. Used to enjoy segments but don’t bother with them anymore since making my Strava account more private. I digress…

 

[PaladinGuy]

I’ve found resting HR between my Garmin and AW to be almost identical. Keeping them on together for the whole day, can see resting HR is consistent between both. But found (on previous generations of AW) that the HR whilst running was waaaaay out. Like seriously low for me, I knew I wasn’t at 140bpm during said tempo run! And also found the GPS on known routes to be inaccurate with my local parkrun measuring almost 200m shorter. Tried with both watches (series 3 and FR935 back in 2017). Admittedly didn’t try running with my S4… but I have a series 7 coming any day now so am actually keen to see how it performs…

Lots of features from the Garmin make it irreplaceable as a fitness watch for me. Love seeing target, racing previous times, etc. Used to enjoy segments but don’t bother with them anymore since making my Strava account more private. I digress…

The Series 3 OHR sensor was good. The 4 and up are excellent and unrivaled in accuracy, in my opinion. I tried a Fenix 6s last summer, and it struggled a lot on activities that my Series 4 had no issues tracking HR on.

I guess it can be a bit unique to each person, but almost all reviews I’ve read say the Apple Watch is the most accurate OHR device.

 

[Fireball Dragon]

The Series 3 OHR sensor was good. The 4 and up are excellent and unrivaled in accuracy, in my opinion. I tried a Fenix 6s last summer, and it struggled a lot on activities that my Series 4 had no issues tracking HR on.

I guess it can be a bit unique to each person, but almost all reviews I’ve read say the Apple Watch is the most accurate OHR device.

Several reviews/tests do show this, I can believe that AWs HR sensor is probably one of the most accurate out there.

Will definitely give it a head-to-head again. Still won’t use AW as my main fitness device, but really interested to see how it compares now a few years later! ?

 

[grmlin]

The Series 3 OHR sensor was good. The 4 and up are excellent and unrivaled in accuracy, in my opinion. I tried a Fenix 6s last summer, and it struggled a lot on activities that my Series 4 had no issues tracking HR on.

I guess it can be a bit unique to each person, but almost all reviews I’ve read say the Apple Watch is the most accurate OHR device.

That’s why I’m using a hr strap now. My HR was all over the place during intense workouts sometimes, and the strap works pretty much flawlessly now

 

[PaladinGuy]

That’s why I’m using a hr strap now. My HR was all over the place during intense workouts sometimes, and the strap works pretty much flawlessly now

Yep. About the only thing I use a strap for is something like jump roping. Otherwise, my Apple Watch series 4 and up track my heart rate more than accurately enough for me. That means one less thing I have to deal with (a chest strap). I personally hate having something else to remember and charge/replace batteries in.

The lack of OHR accuracy is one of the primary reasons I decided not to go with a Fenix 6 and stay with Apple Watch.