Primary reason on top of GPS issues with Fenix 6 for me too. That’s what made me stick with AW and selling my Fenix 6 Solar.
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From Garmin to Apple: is there an alternative to the Garmin coach that works on the watch?
- Thread starter grmlin
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Same here. I go back and forth between the two. I definitely prefer the running metrics on the Fenix, especially with the HRM, but the AW doesn't need a HRM, it's accurate. The AW has also gotten better on the GPS side, it tracks pretty closely to the mile markers on my run now. Of course, the battery on the 7 isn't very good. I'd kill for a reliable second day.
Regardless, back and forth I go.
For me the central question is: what is the path forward for both Garmin and Apple. Honestly, I do not see much of a future for Garmin, it will be more and more a niche product. Smartwatch capabilities are limited and sports functionality is already so overbloated that they struggle with stability of all these features.
Biggest issues concerning Apple Watch as a sports watch comparable to Garmin are:
1) battery life (not too much of an issue with good charging strategy, but admittedly for longer activities it is an issue)
2) touchscreen can be problematic under wet conditions
3) sensor connectivity
For 1) I see a little ray of hope, but do not think that there will be really significant changes
2) Would wish for another button but chances are low as Apple stays with design decisions for long times
3) Guys like @cfc from Workoutdoors work on this
If I had to (or want to) run an Ultra, I would train with my AW and buy a cheap Coros Pace with extra long battery life for the event but no expensive Garmin anymore.
Biggest issues concerning Apple Watch as a sports watch comparable to Garmin are:
1) battery life (not too much of an issue with good charging strategy, but admittedly for longer activities it is an issue)
2) touchscreen can be problematic under wet conditions
3) sensor connectivity
For 1) I see a little ray of hope, but do not think that there will be really significant changes
2) Would wish for another button but chances are low as Apple stays with design decisions for long times
3) Guys like @cfc from Workoutdoors work on this
If I had to (or want to) run an Ultra, I would train with my AW and buy a cheap Coros Pace with extra long battery life for the event but no expensive Garmin anymore.
As stated above, try runalyze for exactly these features. They are spot on compared to Garmin.
Fair.
Found these predictions on my 935 quite far off reality and they didn't even do a sanity check between the different type of values. E.g. my lactate threshold pace was really good and close to reality and still my race predictions told me, I can run a marathon with a faster pace than my lactate threshold is. Which is quite a nonsense.
The 945 got better on the predictions but still produces strange things. Running a PR on a distance and still having a prediction that is slower does not make much sense.
But understand your point, would love to have my numbers on my watch too. Maybe @cfc can do a runalyze integration in the future ;-).
I do them with iSmoothRun and program them manually. Takes about 1-2 minutes and I often use already completed workouts and modify them, makes it even faster. My training plans are on paper, I modify them adaptively.
Love iSmoothRun workout mode. Has very good audio cues saying „faster, slower, steady“ and introduces each interval with goals.
WorkOutDoors is great for that too but Stryd integration is not yet ready. Will come.
Use Stryd because of the precision of instant pace.
iSmoothRun can also take workouts from TrainingPeaks and Firstsurge.
Love iSmoothRun workout mode. Has very good audio cues saying „faster, slower, steady“ and introduces each interval with goals.
WorkOutDoors is great for that too but Stryd integration is not yet ready. Will come.
Use Stryd because of the precision of instant pace.
iSmoothRun can also take workouts from TrainingPeaks and Firstsurge.
Thank you so much! These apps are stand alone apps on the watch, correct? I don't want to take my phone with me when running!
I find the Training Today app great for a readiness score (utilises HRV data). It's the first thing I look at on the watch in the morning.
Not to throw a wrench into this, but FYI the RunGap iOS app will upload AppleWatch runs to Garmin Connect.
Data available includes the usuals of distance/time/calories/HR based metrics, as well as cadence/average stride length. VO2max info is available within the Health app, and doesn't seem to convey to Garmin Connect.
(I was a Garmin based runner for many years, and for a while would run with my Garmin and wear my Apple Watch the rest of the time. Eventually weaned myself off of wearing the garmin and just wore the Apple. Though I'm far more a recreational runner these days and don't do interval workouts and so on like I did at one time. I do use a Garmin bike computer as well, so I stick with Garmin Connect platform)
When first bought my Forerunner FR235, I did a bunch of runs with it on one wrist and my 910xt on the other, so I could compare chest-strap HRM vs optical. Never saw any discernible difference, and went all-in with optical. No more hassles with chest strap wild readings early in winter runs, even using a properly wetted strap or using electrode gel.
Later down the road I did a bunch of runs with my Series3 or Series4 - I forget which - comparing to my FR235 - again never discerned a difference in HR readings.
In recent months I've been doing a bunch more bicycling - recording rides both on my AW S6 and my Garmin Edge bike computer, using my FR235 to broadcast HR to the Edge. I still see no discernible difference in the HR readings.
All that said, individuals can very.
Yes, both iSmoothRun and WorkOutDoors are stand alone. No iPhone required while running.
Let him complete Stryd integration first and then we kindly ask for runalyze again. Would be a match in heaven.
I don’t know what it is, but during intense workouts with lots of sweat it just stops working. I have none of these issues with the strap.
Pretty sure I’ll have the same problems with any other optical HR sensor in a watch
I think the big factor here is that you’re referring to steady state exercises that don’t have big heart rate fluctuations.
Did you find this to be the case even with short intervals and strength training. This is where the Fenix 6s that I used for a week really struggled.
Strength training is a special case for wrist-worn optical HRM due to the tensioning of the wrist interfering with readings.
As for running/riding being stead-state - perhaps if I lived in a flat location, but I don't. Every run or ride involves "intervals" of a sort even if that's not the goal.
Weird. Haven't seen that - even with summer lunchtime runs here in Georgia -- usually dripping wet from sweat by the end.
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Actually just went out for a run with my FR945 and AW S4 this evening. Started both at the same time, both with auto-pause.
After correcting for distance, both measured exactly the same. Interestingly HR on AW appeared a “lot”higher, considering effort level was easy as well I found this odd.
Overall, honestly just felt the buttons, interface, ease of use etc was better on the Garmin for my own needs. Raising my wrist to get the screen to show data was also mildly inconvenient (perhaps not an issue with AOD).
I did like that the AW auto pause was a lot quicker than my Garmin (which took a fair few seconds to realise I had briefly stopped…).
I do wish the AW added a race option (to show how far ahead/behind you are with pace, etc).
Definitely no right or wrong here I guess, just what people find more convenient to use.
Edit: I should add that I was using the Strava app on the AW!
I know in my mind several days before where I am going to run and the distance. I don't use any app to lead me into when and where. I am sure running newbies might find that kind of structure useful (not saying you are one). Those kinds of rigid programs don't take into account the age, running history, terrain and other important metrics when giving app users a program to use. In my opinion, it is often far better to listen to one's body for guidance. Not everyone will agree with me and that is fine.
Like Andy, I still use a Garmin (Fenix 6) and an AW (Series 7 now). I always use the Garmin for races (marathons and 50Ks) and structured training runs, but I wear the AW as my day-to-day watch and easy runs. I find the AW GPS and HR data more accurate than the Fenix (which is kind of crappy TBH) but while racing the Garmin data is more glanceable. I don't run with a phone, so I use the AW's music and LTE.
I don't find the Garmin performance and recovery metrics all that reliable or useful, so I really only wear it for discrete purposes.
Same here- both watches on when I run (music/LTE for AW) and forerunner for the actual running part!
Agree re: recovery metrics. The damn thing is alway telling me to have a rest day!! ?
Garmin definitely has some pluses
- Buttons are easier in the rain or sweating vs swipe or pressing.
- It's easier to see in daylight, but not so much the rest of the time.
- Charging once/week vs morning and evening on the AW.
- Podcasts, with Musicbee are much easier to manage than anything I've found on the Apple Watch. I can take a podcast and load it straight to the watch, the AW loads what it wants to when it wants to.
- Built-in metrics are better on Garmin. Use a Garmin HRM and you get some pretty good running metrics.
Good to hear that there is a better way to put podcasts on the Garmin now than when I was using it with a cable.
But doubt that it is as comfortable like eg Overcast. Syncs perfectly across all devices and I can continue a podcast from which device I like to. Was really annoying to manually keep my Garmin and my iPhone in sync. Scrolling two hours into a podcast on Garmin was a pain.