From “think different “ to “Rethink nothing!”. It’s time for Tim to go!

[smirking]

The upgrade cycle proves mostly that iPhones have gotten really good and don't need to be bought every year.

The main reason most people upgraded on regular basis was to get the camera improvements. Personalized Memojis, AI, phone colors, and a more customizable OS don't get people off the couch.

The "problem" is that our phones are already doing a great job at giving us what we actually want, which is a capable pocket camera for taking cat photos. I don't think it's accurate to say the phones are fully matured, but the single component that people truly care about has.

 

[sunapple]

The main reason most people upgraded on regular basis was to get the camera improvements. Personalized Memojis, AI, phone colors, and a more customizable OS don't get people off the couch.

The "problem" is that our phones are already doing a great job at giving us what we actually want, which is a capable pocket camera for taking cat photos. They can talk up the continued improvements in the cameras each year, but most people have figured out by now that it's mostly hype.

Also speed, accompanied by software features, but for a while now the chips have been capable enough to run newer software with new features. Luckily they now have AI that needs the power "only 15 Pro or newer" can handle, but yeah that's not cutting it yet.

The next thing they are coming up with is the slim "iPhone Air" battery that might last fewer years, or maybe I'm paranoid

 

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Most users? According to who?

According to moi Might just be the most vocal folks on the forums, but those are more likely to be sendin' feedback.

 

[seek3r]

Apple should be concentrating on the iPhone as opposed to taking on projects like Project Titan etc. The iPhone brings in the big $$$$ and deserves the most attention
People refreshing iPhones every 3 years or more goes to prove the updates are boring
Apple holds so many patents on things they’ve innovated yet they haven’t made it into the iPhone.

Phones are a maturing platform, just as computers were

Also most people never upgraded their phone every year…

 

[CyberDavis]

Microsoft tried a tablet-style interface on desktops with Windows 8 – it didn't go well...

I dont think Apple went that far, to be it was more about aligning some menus and icons.
There are still differences between iPad OS and Mac OS.
But it will always come down to personal choice I guess, we all like different aesthetics which is fine. 👍

 

[aaronage]

I dont nthink Apple went that far, to be it was more about aligning some menus and icons.
There are stiull differences betweem iPas OS and Mac OS.
But it will always come down to personal choice I guess, we all like different aesthetics which is fine. 👍

+1, I sympathise with the fear of Windows 8-ification but Liquid Glass ain't that 😅

Apple has problems, but forcing the Start screen and Charms Bar into a server operating system is the kind of stupid only Microsoft would do 😂

 

[DankeBrutus]

Or a major-er reason: you can only reinvent so long.

After adding cinnamon spice and vanilla ice cream to apple pie for the first time, how much more can you improve an apple pie?

Honestly. Products like smartphones, tablets, and laptops plateaued years ago. The best we can really hope for is for the next model to be faster, have better battery life, and improve stuff like the display or speakers.

In general are people here acting like Apple Silicon hasn't been damn well paradigm shifting for Macs? Remember 2015-2020 where MacBooks had bad performance, ok battery life, and bad keyboards? We went from people putting their MacBook Pros in freezers to MacBook Pros not even spinning up their fans until pushed hard. I'm tempted to say Apple Silicon has been a paradigm shift for the PC space in general. The M-series SOCs consistently outperform traditional x86/amd64 CPUs and provide better battery life. Apple has shipped incredibly capable ARM SOCs in the consumers space, the same space where ARM was associated with smartphones and low powered hobby electronics like the Raspberry Pi.

 

[aaronage]

In general are people here acting like Apple Silicon hasn't been damn well paradigm shifting for Macs? Remember 2015-2020 where MacBooks had bad performance, ok battery life, and bad keyboards? We went from people putting their MacBook Pros in freezers to MacBook Pros not even spinning up their fans until pushed hard. I'm tempted to say Apple Silicon has been a paradigm shift for the PC space in general. The M-series SOCs consistently outperform traditional x86/amd64 CPUs and provide better battery life. Apple has shipped incredibly capable ARM SOCs in the consumers space, the same space where ARM was associated with smartphones and low powered hobby electronics like the Raspberry Pi.

+1000, part of me wants to go on a long rant exploring this topic but I only have so much free time 😭

Bit of a tangent (this is tenuously related to the thread topic, promise 😅)

Apple's secrecy and lack of clarity in communications often leads people to jump to conclusions and assume motives that don't always align with reality.

For example, remember the weird fan setup of the last Intel MacBook Airs? The fan was almost completely useless, it circulated air around the casing but didn't effectively cool the SoC. It was like a fan wasn't even considered in the design, it didn't make sense. At the time, I remember seeing theories like:
> "the thinness obsession meant they couldn't fit a proper fan!"
> "They nerfed the cooling to upsell you a MacBook Pro!"
> "It's cost cutting 🙄"

Fast forward to 2020 and we get a revised MacBook Air with M1 and without a fan... ah!
Is it possible the Air was supposed to transition to Apple Silicon earlier but ended up stuck on Intel for another generation? An A12X/Z MacBook Air would've been far more capable than the Amber Lake/Ice Lake models we got.
Perhaps the decision was made late into the project and they had to scramble to correct course, resulting in a sub-par cooling solution for a sub-par chip?
Alternatively, maybe these products were simply a victim of Intel's slipping roadmap and Apple had expected a viable fanless solution from them?

This theory might not be true, but what seems more logical? Apple intentionally set out to deliver a crap cooling solution for... reasons, or some extenuating circumstances forced them to make a compromise?

Point being, people look at changes like Liquid Glass and make assumptions about Apple's intentions. These theories spread and grow until people start believing the sky is falling. Like:
"Liquid Glass is on iOS... and Mac? Does that mean... the Mac is becoming like iOS? Is Apple dumbing down macOS? Oh no, it's Windows RT time! They're gonna lock app installs as well I bet! Quick, hand me a pitchfork!".

It's not just a design change, it's a secret plot to destroy the Mac.

It wasn't just a compromised cooling design, it was a plot to drive sales to the MacBook Pro etc. 🙂

 

[DankeBrutus]

Point being, people look at changes like Liquid Glass and make assumptions about Apple's intentions. These theories spread and grow until people start believing the sky is falling. Like:
"Liquid Glass is on iOS... and Mac? Does that mean... the Mac is becoming like iOS? Is Apple dumbing down macOS? Oh no, it's Windows RT time! They're gonna lock app installs as well I bet! Quick, hand me a pitchfork!".

If anything Apple is treating the Mac more like a regular computer with Tahoe. Axing Launchpad for the new app launcher GUI fits better with a laptop or desktop as opposed to a touchscreen device. Liquid Glass is ultimately just Apple's new design language. Now, to be fair, in a way this is something like a Windows 8 move since Microsoft tried a unified design with PC Windows and Windows Mobile. Though from what I have seen Apple is not making the Mac less useful as a computer.

Time will tell if they remove some under the hood features or make certain things more difficult. But I think Tahoe is ultimately going to be Sequoia with a coat of paint. If we're lucky they'll finally improve their SMB support, maybe just port over Samba.

 

[aaronage]

If anything Apple is treating the Mac more like a regular computer with Tahoe. Axing Launchpad for the new app launcher GUI fits better with a laptop or desktop as opposed to a touchscreen device. Liquid Glass is ultimately just Apple's new design language. Now, to be fair, in a way this is something like a Windows 8 move since Microsoft tried a unified design with PC Windows and Windows Mobile. Though from what I have seen Apple is not making the Mac less useful as a computer.

Time will tell if they remove some under the hood features or make certain things more difficult. But I think Tahoe is ultimately going to be Sequoia with a coat of paint. If we're lucky they'll finally improve their SMB support, maybe just port over Samba.

Yeah exactly.

I think the key difference is that Microsoft wanted to make Windows 8 a one-size-fits-all solution for every device. In retrospect, I respect them for going all-in and committing to it, but it was bonkers 😂

My favourite Windows 8 experience was teaching my Mum how to exit PDFs lol. I caught her hard powering off her laptop and asked what she was doing. It turned out Windows 8 was opening documents in a full-screen Metro/Modern app. She would double click something in Explorer and get kicked over to Metro-land. Because this app opened full screen and automatically hid the controls from view, she had no idea what to do and would just... hard power off 😅

 

[123123123]

But it will always come down to personal choice I guess, we all like different aesthetics which is fine. 👍

Absolutely! I mean, I still have a soft spot for the old OS X Aqua interface. But there's a fine line between aesthetics and fundamental UI flaws. Tablets and phones are obviously centred around touchscreen interfaces, and the UI design choices that optimize for that tend to (IMHO) give a bad experience on desktops/laptops (see Windows 8, which was a nightmare), which are keyboard and pointer-centric – and vice versa, the design choices that optimize for keyboard/pointer use are often unworkable on a touchscreen-centred interface. I'm of the opinion that this is one of the major reasons we haven't seen a touchscreen Mac (or a macOS iPad). In decades of computing, I've yet to encounter any interface that works well for both keyboard/pointer and touchscreen devices, and I suspect Apple hasn't figured out how to create a hybrid user experience that meets their standards. And it's not just Apple. Windows touchscreen laptops don't really give a good user experience IMHO, and the Linux world hasn't yielded anything either. I think that ultimately, the fundamental differences in input method between the different classes of device prevent a one-size-fits-all UI solution. Personally, I'd rather have UIs optimized for the device I'm using than try to make my laptop match my phone – but I think it's pretty clear that Apple prefers the latter.

 

[123123123]

My favourite Windows 8 experience was teaching my Mum how to exit PDFs lol. I caught her hard powering off her laptop and asked what she was doing. It turned out Windows 8 was opening documents in a full-screen Metro/Modern app. She would double click something in Explorer and get kicked over to Metro-land. Because this app opened full screen and automatically hid the controls from view, she had no idea what to do and would just... hard power off 😅

To be fair, turning the computer off is the best response to having to use Windows 8.

 

[fastred]

„What king of „England“ is that“ - oops.

No. That’s a deliberate malapropism.

 

[Ctrlos]

The main reason most people upgraded on regular basis was to get the camera improvements. Personalized Memojis, AI, phone colors, and a more customizable OS don't get people off the couch.

The "problem" is that our phones are already doing a great job at giving us what we actually want, which is a capable pocket camera for taking cat photos. I don't think it's accurate to say the phones are fully matured, but the single component that people truly care about has.

Also a 16e or Pixel 9a will give you more camera than you'll ever need for casual photography. Most people massively overspend on a device they use 20% of the capability of.