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can't another company just come up and take over?
You can launch whatever you want, sure. My business powers 6000+ independent self-hosted social networks.

But growing and reaching an audience is not that easy when FB is also slowly monopolizing web advertising, and is prone to shut down your ad account for no reason, without warning, and no way of appealing the decision.

If this suit has a spot for people / businesses filing their testimonies, I'd be more than happy to throw in my company's position on this.
 
The government shouldn’t limit a company’s growth. Facebook is basically being punished for being successful. It’s not fair. Let the market decide.
AFAIK (INAL): The US rules involved do allow one to grow (naturally) and create a monopoly (real one or a de-facto one). What's not allowed is to either "cheat" by buying competitors once you're a huge player in a market
Or worse yet: to use a monopoly you have to (try to) create another one in another market.

So growing due to your success: surely it is allowed. But as you grow, you also gain extra responsibilities:
- Growing by acquiring the stock of your competitors isn't going to happen without scruteny anymore once you're a significantly big player yourself
- Stopping to compete with your competitors by price fixing etc is also not kosher (and more a problem for bigger players than for small ones following the lead of a big one)
- Neither is using your monopoly once you have it to force your way into another market.

The whole basis of it is that as companies get too much control it becomes impossible for smaller players to enter a market anymore. Making it impossible for the smaller companies to ever grow themselves.

Again: I'm not a lawyer - don't even live in the USA - it's just my understanding of it from doing business around the world.

The EU has other rules that start more form a consumer protection point of view and less of a protecting the smaller suppliers. That too shows in the results of their rules and actions sometimes, where the big players get better protections than the smaller players (GDPR comes to mind: fines are capped as a % of the revenue for large players, bu the cap doesn't go below 2M EUR - so for small companies it the can can be many times more than the company has in assets, while it might hurt the Facebook bottom line a bit, it could ruin those in charge of a small-time competitor easily)
 
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Interesting, so even though there are profitable competitors like snap chat, twitter, and tiktok there is anti-trust. I guess the Apple App Store is doomed then, especially since Apple takes 70% of market profits when comparing Android and iOS app stores. Seems like how standard oil only had 2/3 of the market but was forced to break up.
 
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Name one competitor that apple bought to prevent it being a competitor.

There aren’t any because the biggest purchase apple made was beats. Apple wasn’t making headphones other than the crap freebies dished out with iPods and iPhones, and were playing catch-up with Spotify on streaming.

Basically all the others were technology / accu-hire acquisitions where they wanted specific tech or talent.

An equivalent would be, for example apple buying Microsoft. Or Samsung.
One of the most recent ones I can think of is DarkSky. Apple bought it then basically told Android users sorry not sorry you're out of luck. With a high profile weather app purchase like that, Apple is hoping iOS users will use it as the stock weather app and stop purchasing third party weather apps.
 
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How on earth is this a monopoly, and how does splitting off Instagram and WhatsApp fix it in any way?

Facebook has plenty of competition - TikTok, Snapchat, YouTube, Twitter... I could go on.

WhatsApp as its own company wouldn't even be viewed as a social network. If it could be viewed as one, though, then I can list another dozen that could be called competitors to it.

Customers have plenty of choice. People can and do leave Facebook. They can and do join other social networks. They even use multiple networks (like me - I use both Facebook and Twitter.)
Employees have plenty of choice - tons of people leave Facebook and go to other tech companies.
Advertisers have plenty of choice about where to advertise - IDK of any company that chooses to exclusively, or even mostly, advertise on Facebook.
 
One of the most recent ones I can think of is DarkSky. Apple bought it then basically told Android users sorry not sorry you're out of luck. With a high profile weather app purchase like that, Apple is hoping iOS users will use it as the stock weather app and stop purchasing third party weather apps.
I’m not sure now whether you are joking or not. Are you really comparing the acquisition of dark sky to that of Instagram and WhatsApp by the largest social media platform?

Dark sky is incredibly niche. Successful, but niche.

Weather. That’s the best you’ve got, weather. Forecasts are freely available via any news channel, newspaper and loads of other websites and apps.
 
How on earth is this a monopoly, and how does splitting off Instagram and WhatsApp fix it in any way?

Facebook has plenty of competition - TikTok, Snapchat, YouTube, Twitter... I could go on.

WhatsApp as its own company wouldn't even be viewed as a social network. If it could be viewed as one, though, then I can list another dozen that could be called competitors to it.

Customers have plenty of choice. People can and do leave Facebook. They can and do join other social networks. They even use multiple networks (like me - I use both Facebook and Twitter.)
Employees have plenty of choice - tons of people leave Facebook and go to other tech companies.
Advertisers have plenty of choice about where to advertise - IDK of any company that chooses to exclusively, or even mostly, advertise on Facebook.
Its called anti-trust (in the USA) and, yes, monopolies can have competitors.

You don’t have to have a 100% market share to have a monopoly and you don’t have to have 100% market share to break anti-trust law.
 
I’m not sure now whether you are joking or not. Are you really comparing the acquisition of dark sky to that of Instagram and WhatsApp by the largest social media platform?

Dark sky is incredibly niche. Successful, but niche.

Weather. That’s the best you’ve got, weather. Forecasts are freely available via any news channel, newspaper and loads of other websites and apps.
Who's comparing anything? I wasn't asked to compare anything. I was asked a question about a purchase Apple made to dissuade competition. The acquisition of Dark sky perfectly fits that question. If Apple incorporates all the rich features of Dark Sky into its default weather app; users will have very little incentive to purchase third party weather apps. Try to keep up. Thanks
 
Who's comparing anything? I wasn't asked to compare anything. I was asked a question about a purchase Apple made to dissuade competition. The acquisition of Dark sky perfectly fits that question. If Apple incorporates all the rich features of Dark Sky into its default weather app; users will have very little incentive to purchase third party weather apps. Try to keep up. Thanks

Ugh, you’ve reached the “keep up” stage of a discussion.

Bye.

Ps, you’re wrong.
 
Ugh, you’ve reached the “keep up” stage of a discussion.

Bye.

Ps, you’re wrong.
Please point out how I am wrong. I was asked to name a company Apple purchased to limit competition. How does Apple buying a weather app which will have the effect of users not needing to purchase additional third party weather apps not fit the question? I know it doesn't fit your agenda, but it's still facts. Facts are Apple purchases companies all the time probably more than any rival out there. They use those purchases to better their own apps and services and limit competition. Facts. Maybe not the facts you want, but facts nonetheless.
 
Please point out how I am wrong. I was asked to name a company Apple purchased to limit competition. How does Apple buying a weather app which will have the effect of users not needing to purchase additional third party weather apps not fit the question? I know it doesn't fit your agenda, but it's still facts. Facts are Apple purchases companies all the time probably more than any rival out there. They use those purchases to better their own apps and services and limit competition. Facts. Maybe not the facts you want, but facts nonetheless.

The comparison is that Facebook is a social media company. They stopped competition by buying two of their biggest competitors in the same general market.

Apple is not a weather forecast company. They provide a weather app on their phones. Dark sky was a small, niche player in the weather app market.

I suspect apple could have bought the bloody weather channel and still it wouldn’t have been anti-competitive / anti-trust behaviour because it is all niche. There is nothing about the dark sky purchase that prevents anyone else from doing anything. It would be trivial for any of apples actual competitors to create something broadly similar. Indeed, google used to provide a weather app for Android. Nothing stopping them doing it again.

There are numerous other weather apps around.

That all aside, the thing that really sets it apart is Zuckerberg admitted to making these purchases for defensive, anti-competitive reasons which was contrary to their submissions to the authorities during the acquisitions.

I’m sorry, I’m getting pretty bored of this now. If you can’t see the difference between the Facebook purchases of Instagram and WhatsApp, and the apple purchase of dark sky, I really think this is a waste of time.
 
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The comparison is that Facebook is a social media company. They stopped competition by buying two of their biggest competitors in the same general market.

Apple is not a weather forecast company. They provide a weather app on their phones. Dark sky was a small, niche player in the weather app market.

I suspect apple could have bought the bloody weather channel and still it wouldn’t have been anti-competitive / anti-trust behaviour because it is all niche. There is nothing about the dark sky purchase that prevents anyone else from doing anything. It would be trivial for any of apples actual competitors to create something broadly similar. Indeed, google used to provide a weather app for Android. Nothing stopping them doing it again.

There are numerous other weather apps around.

That all aside, the thing that really sets it apart is Zuckerberg admitted to making these purchases for defensive, anti-competitive reasons which was contrary to their submissions to the authorities during the acquisitions.

I’m sorry, I’m getting pretty bored of this now. If you can’t see the difference between the Facebook purchases of Instagram and WhatsApp, and the apple purchase of dark sky, I really think this is a waste of time.
Ok now I see. What you are saying is Apple can buy any company it wants and limit all the competition as long as it doesn't buy a major player on the same scale as Facebook. It's ok to put small companies out of businesses by limiting competition, just don't do it to big companies. Got it. And this is not all just speculation. I read an article a while back about a bunch of smaller weather companies whose sales went way down after the purchase and were worried about their future viability. Not to mention all the Android users who bought Dark Sky and were left out to dry by Apple.
 
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Anti-trust / anti-competitive behaviour law isn’t necessarily about the size or profitability of a company. It’s about the things it does with the power and influence that comes with that size and wealth.

Facebook bought Instagram and WhatsApp to prevent competition. That is by definition anti-competitive. And in about a blatant a way as possible.

So whilst apple might be highly profitable, I’m not aware of them purchasing competitors to reduce competition. Are you?
Whether Apple is behaving anticompetitively, especially as it relates to iOS and its derivative platforms, is a valid legal question that will likely take years to work its way through courts, regulators, and if necessary, Congress. That question is, as you can imagine, not as simple as “are they buying competitors.”
 
Ok now I see. What you are saying is Apple can buy any company it wants and limit all the competition as long as it doesn't buy a major player on the same scale as Facebook. It's ok to put small companies out of businesses by limiting competition, just don't do it to big companies. Got it. And this is not all just speculation. I read an article a while back about a bunch of smaller weather companies whose sales went way down after the purchase and were worried about their future viability. Not to mention all the Android users who bought Dark Sky and were left out to dry by Apple.
It’s about distorting the market rather than putting people out of business. I think maybe this is where your misunderstanding is arising.

Distorting the market is generally anti-consumer in that everyone suffers.

Capitalism is such that sometimes companies go out of business. That’s tough but it happens.

Using unique huge power and influence to prevent competition in a market you already dominate. That’s anti-competitive.
 
It’s about distorting the market rather than putting people out of business. I think maybe this is where your misunderstanding is arising.

Distorting the market is generally anti-consumer in that everyone suffers.

Capitalism is such that sometimes companies go out of business. That’s tough but it happens.

Using unique huge power and influence to prevent conception in a market you already dominate. That’s anti-competitive.
So when Apple buys Dark Sky and incorporates all the features into its stock, default, and free weather app does that not distort the market such to where users have no incentive to purchase third party weather apps because Apple bought presumably the best one on the market and incorporated the features into its default weather app? The distortion comes into play as from that point on there will be no other company trying to develop a weather app on the iOS platform as there is no need now. Thus limiting present and future competition.
 
I've got a hard time with throwing the "monopoly" word around even as it relates to FB. It's a website. The barrier to entry isn't massive.
The technological barriers are low.
The barriers to attract a critical mass of users and thus market share are extremely high though, due to network effects.
There's dozens of instant messaging apps available on App Stores. Yet almost they're all facing an uphill battle against Facebook/WhatsApp (or the local incumbent), due to lack of users and interoperability.
Once the cool kids decide Zuck Sucks then FBs influence can fall off a cliff.

Facebook isn't that relevant among under 30-year olds anymore.
It probably hasn't been for a few years.
Much of that audience has shifted to Instagram.

But that's the point:
Facebook has been preemptively picking up and buying out that competition.
Just as they did with WhatsApp and Instagram.
 
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So when Apple buys Dark Sky and incorporates all the features into its stock, default, and free weather app does that not distort the market such to where users have no incentive to purchase third party weather apps because Apple bought presumably the best one on the market and incorporated the features into its default weather app? The distortion comes into play as from that point on there will be no other company trying to develop a weather app on the iOS platform as there is no need now. Thus limiting present and future competition.

For sure there are questions that eventually arise from it. The parallel being Microsoft with internet explorer being pre-installed on windows.

The thing with web browsers is they were a gateway to an entire new world / marketplace. Weather apps are not. There were genuine concerns about one company controlling access to the internet.

I don’t think weather apps are ever going to have such concerns.

Anti-trust prosecutions are pretty rare. There is quite a high bar required for a successful prosecution. And the level of importance needs to be fairly high.

So, don’t get me wrong, it’s possible that apple bought dark sky to stifle the competition. I doubt it though. Because if there was any risk of it they would much rather develop it themselves or just not bother.

The chances of a successful prosecution about it seem very low to me. In truth, I’d be very surprised if there were any successful anti-trust case against apple except perhaps around App Store ownership / policies. All their other products are no where near approaching monopolies.
 
So when Apple buys Dark Sky and incorporates all the features into its stock, default, and free weather app does that not distort the market such to where users have no incentive to purchase third party weather apps because Apple bought presumably the best one on the market and incorporated the features into its default weather app? The distortion comes into play as from that point on there will be no other company trying to develop a weather app on the iOS platform as there is no need now. Thus limiting present and future competition.

Safari and Chrome didn’t put the weather app industry out of business, neither will the acquisition of Dark Sky by Apple.

For the record, I don’t think buying Instagram and WhatsApp were that big a deal either. But harping on something as insignificant as a minor weather app that you just happen to like is silly.

Dark Sky is public data run through AI. This won’t be the last time we see it.
 
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So when Apple buys Dark Sky and incorporates all the features into its stock, default, and free weather app does that not distort the market such to where users have no incentive to purchase third party weather apps because Apple bought presumably the best one on the market and incorporated the features into its default weather app? The distortion comes into play as from that point on there will be no other company trying to develop a weather app on the iOS platform as there is no need now. Thus limiting present and future competition.
If you want to get into an interesting antitrust angle re: Apple’s acquisition of Dark Sky, this is pointless. You might have something based on their discontinuation of the Dark Sky API.
 
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Safari and Chrome didn’t put the weather app industry out of business, neither will the acquisition of Dark Sky by Apple.

For the record, I don’t think buying Instagram and WhatsApp were that big a deal either. But harping on something as insignificant as a minor weather app that you just happen to like is silly.

Dark Sky is public data run through AI. This won’t be the last time we see it.
The entire point of it was that Apple buys companies all the time. Those purchases have effects like putting other companies out of business. I don't have any idea if Apple wants to limit competition from weather apps, nor do I care. I'm just pointing out Apple is no different than Facebook, just as Facebook is no different than Google. They are for profit companies in a capitalist society. All companies will do nearly anything to thrive and survive. Apple is no different. I think all companies need oversight, including Apple. Especially companies who net worth is over a trillion dollars. Oversight is a good thing, not just for other companies but for Apple too. Dark Sky was just the most recent acquisition I could think of without doing a lot of research.
 
So silly. I don‘t even like Facebook, but this is ridiculous. It’s not like they are utility or a financial institution or anything other than frivolity. We need to get the FTC something better to do, it looks like they are bored or just stupid. Hopefully Biden can clean house.
 
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So silly. I don‘t even like Facebook, but this is ridiculous. It’s not like they are utility or a financial institution or anything other than frivolity. We need to get the FTC something better to do, it looks like they are bored or just stupid. Hopefully Biden can clean house.
I don't like politics, but if you think Biden will make it better, then think again. Democrats are all about breaking big companies up. Not saying I agree with or disagree with Biden--just stating that Democrats are known to be anti big business.
 
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