Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I think you've been drinking too much of your own kool-aid. What monopoly? A monopoly on their own products?

This is probably a waste of time as I suspect you already know the answer and are playing armchair lawyer rather than looking at the point being made, but I'll make it anyway.

Apple does not own 3rd party software yet they maintain 100% control of DISTRIBUTION OF ALL iOS SOFTWARE PRODUCTS. Now I know it's damn hard to comprehend that there is more than one aspect to modern day computing (hardware, software and distribution of said products) and that ALL THREE represent potential for abuse of market power. Namely, Apple says if you want to sell something like say, Microsoft Office for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad (all iOS computing devices), you MUST pay us 30% of all your sales. You are NOT allowed to sell your software for iOS devices using any other distribution methods or stores. Apple may own the hardware designs and Apple may own the operating system, but Apple should not have the right to force people to sell their products using their stores (whether virtual or brick and mortar). The same should apply to Android and any other operating systems. 3rd party software distribution should be the right of the authors, not Apple. Only the most narrow of vision people would still claim iOS is a "phone" operating system and thus not an actual computer market. You can't make that claim and then turn around and say the tablet (iPad) is the future of home computing as some have said on here.

Tying is the process of connecting separate markets and services together in such a way as to THWART COMPETITION for those additional profit making potentials. Apple ties software to hardware on ALL its devices (including Macs) thus denying 100% of all hardware competition for the OSX market (and has sued in court over this). Apple ties application distribution to iOS devices denying authors the right to distribute their software for their devices by means of their choosing (it would be like Chevy operating a network of gas stations and requiring you to fuel up at them instead of other gas stations if you buy a Chevy. That is EXACTLY what Apple does. Apple doesn't claim to own "gas" (3rd party software "Apps" in general), but does take 30% of all sales of "gas" for their products with no other gas stations being allowed to compete for use in Apple "cars" (iOS computer products).

Now the armchair lawyers can argue all day long on here about what is "legal" in modern day courts in America (many would now claim the Supreme Court no longer honors the Constitution and writes their own LAWS as they see fit these days so it may be MOOT what is "legal" and what is not when power is abused), but this is not an argument about what is legal. It's an argument about what is RIGHT. In Capitalism, competition is supposed to be the central motivating power and cornering markets and sub-markets to thwart alternate competition and distribution certainly violates the spirit of Capitalism if not the actual laws used to enforce it in a given country. So you can argue all day long about the meaning of the word "monopoly" in legal terms, but denying competition for the distribution of an entire market segment is an ABUSE of power in my opinion. Apple is no longer some tiny company that can't afford to play "fairly" in order to survive (as people have often made excuses for them in the past regarding things like not allowing OSX to run on 3rd party computers) but rather is the #1 tech company on the planet. If Apple cannot make money without abusing competition t hen there's something wrong with both Apple and the system period. App distribution is a tiny part of Apple's overall income and they should not have to force people to use iTunes and/or the App Store in order sell iPhones.

Yes, its called Windows. Apple is not in the business of selling operating systems. They sell hardware. If you want an OS on better hardware you can design your own OS from freely available source code just like Apple did.

There is a real DIFFERENCE between HARDWARE and SOFTWARE. They are different market segments. Regardless, how would writing my own operating system (impossible for one person to do these days for anything modern) allow me to run OSX and its software on better hardware??? There wouldn't be ANY available software for such a system even if it were possible! The whole damn point is I want to run Mac software (and thus its OS as well) on better hardware than Apple will offer (forget the price; you can't even get what you want because Apple only believes in thin thin thin garbage anymore and doesn't update their Mac Pro but once or twice a decade these days).

In short, Apple should be forced by law to make their OS for sale for 3rd party products. I can see Europe doing something like this in the future as they seem to comprehend the problems of letting large companies control entire markets and market segments better than the greedmongering corporations using unlimited money to control the political process and therefore the government in the USA. In short, the US is becoming completely corrupt to special interests and large corporations and ignores what the people actually want.

Finally, any Mac "fan" knows that Microsoft Windows is not a great alternative to OSX and therefore having to switch entire operating systems and ALL one's software library over at GREAT COST still won't get you a better experience if you can't stand the operating system. I should not have to pick between the operating system and the hardware I can use it on, but that is the situation Apple puts us Mac users in every day of every week. And the only difference between OSX and iOS in these situations is that there are FAR MORE iOS users than Mac users out there and far more iTunes users than other stores and that is why the FTC's attention has been aroused. That doesn't make their OSX behaviors any more acceptable to some of us, but clearly numbers drive the FTC with their limited resources. You can state they have no case and maybe they do and maybe they don't (I don't trust the courts any more regardless), but clearly Apple is no longer invisible to the FTC nor should they be.

I didn't know being successful was against the law.

This statement tells me you don't appear to get how BAD it is for society (legal or not) for one or two companies to control EVERYTHING in a given market(s). It leads to stagnation and lack of creativity. It leads to the stock market being in situations where a few companies are "too big to fail" and can cause a global recession or worse. We've seen this on other fronts quite recently. Allowing companies to be "too successful" to the point of the consumer have few if any choices is bad. I have no choices when it comes to "cable". You can say that I can get satellite but they really aren't the same thing these days with services integrated like phone, TV and Internet). If cable has the only FAST Internet around, I have no choices if I need fast internet and that company can charge almost anything they want to the point where I'd have to MOVE to get something else. That isn't helpful for society or consumers to be in that situation. Now the cable companies are merging and moving is becoming a harder option as one company controls the cable in entire states or regions of states. DirectTV isn't very helpful for phone/Internet in most markets.

Hence my POINT isn't about legality once again, but about infrastructure and countries allowing a handful of companies to control access to important things like utilities and even air travel (as the number of airlines continues to shrink shrink and shrink some more) and that only leads to overtly high prices as they know they have you. It's why gas stations all charge the same or almost the same amount for gas. It's collusion and it's designed to rip off the consumer. Now maybe you prefer a world where companies can rip people off legally, but I do not.

Back to the original point. You can claim that Apple doesn't control streaming or even force people to subscribe on their site. But if they take ANY action against Spotify for telling their customers that they can save money by buying directly from them (e.g. by pulling their App from the App Store as a response), THEN I have a real problem as I did with them "punishing" Monster for filing an unrelated lawsuit (justice doesn't mean you can do more unrelated unjust things to try and stop justice from prevailing on the original problem). But at LEAST Spotify can try to distribute directly to the consumer for those with Apple devices. That is NOT true of "Apps" for Apple devices! You are forced to use the App Store (unless you want to count the tiny number of jailbroken devices out there which represent no significant market at all).
 
  • Like
Reactions: MaloCS and trifid
3rd party software distribution should be the right of the authors, not Apple.
grey area.. 3rd party software written for ios is written using code/APIs/etc owned by apple.. in certain ways, apple has authored parts of all ios apps or certainly have say over how that code can be used..

can apple be forced to make their software open source? i highly doubt it.

is it the 'right' thing to do? of course it is.


but this is not an argument about what is legal. It's an argument about what is RIGHT.
i don't disagree with you on this sentiment.
but, you're trying to fight the good fight by battling a symptom (apple) of the disease (monetary system).

you want apple to do what's right? fine, suppose they do and you're victorious.. well, so what.. another company just takes their place.. you haven't actually changed anything since you fought the wrong fight.

the spirit of Capitalism

 
  • Like
Reactions: powers74
This statement tells me you don't appear to get how BAD it is for society (legal or not) for one or two companies to control EVERYTHING in a given market(s). It leads to stagnation and lack of creativity. It leads to the stock market being in situations where a few companies are "too big to fail" and can cause a global recession or worse. We've seen this on other fronts quite recently. Allowing companies to be "too successful" to the point of the consumer have few if any choices is bad. I have no choices when it comes to "cable". You can say that I can get satellite but they really aren't the same thing these days with services integrated like phone, TV and Internet). If cable has the only FAST Internet around, I have no choices if I need fast internet and that company can charge almost anything they want to the point where I'd have to MOVE to get something else. That isn't helpful for society or consumers to be in that situation. Now the cable companies are merging and moving is becoming a harder option as one company controls the cable in entire states or regions of states. DirectTV isn't very helpful for phone/Internet in most markets.

i don't know magnus..
i can choose my cable provider or ISP.. they are competing.. cable ads /door-to-door salesmen everywhere..etc.

and it doesn't matter who i choose, i'm getting ripped off.. i'm willing to bet i pay more for cable/internet than you do even though i'm in this (not) hypothetical market you speak of.

i think the feeling of disgust you have regarding huge corporations is legit and sincere.. i just feel you might be placing the blame and/or solutions in the wrong areas.

[/QUOTE]
 
grey area.. 3rd party software written for ios is written using code/APIs/etc owned by apple.. in certain ways, apple has authored parts of all ios apps or certainly have say over how that code can be used..

can apple be forced to make their software open source? i highly doubt it.

This has nothing to do with "open source". It would only require them making available the interface to load/unload software to the device like you can do with OSX, Linux or M$ Windows (or any other operating system out there for general computing). It is only "mobile" operating systems that have denied access to loading your own software and as the jailbreak people have shown, it's simple enough to add a way to load 3rd party apps. So the question is whether "general purpose computers" (as in open to 3rd party developers) should "have" to allow competition for software distribution when companies like Apple are charging 1/3 of a program's price to do it for you. That is clearly more than it costs to do it oneself even with one's own distribution or people like Spotify wouldn't be offering a $3 discount on a $10 subscription to get it directly from them.

At least there you have the option of doing that. You don't have that option with Apps. It also means Apple gets to CENSOR everything on those devices (e.g. removing civil war strategy games just because one side's flag is "accurate" to history but it's "unpopular" right now). I don't like private corporations censoring what can and cannot go on my computer in general and that is a definite problem with iOS and generally (so far) not a problem with OSX. The only difference between the two is the size of the devices being used. But as tablets get larger and take over more general computing it will become more and more of an issue and not just the right to control a "smart phone".

i don't disagree with you on this sentiment.
but, you're trying to fight the good fight by battling a symptom (apple) of the disease (monetary system).

This is about rights to use your computer for what you want, not about a money system. It simply comes down to the money system at the moment because that's where the only laws are that might affect any of this. I'm saying we need laws to cover user rights for general purpose computing (which I would define as any computer system that has 3rd party developers).

you want apple to do what's right? fine, suppose they do and you're victorious.. well, so what.. another company just takes their place.. you haven't actually changed anything since you fought the wrong fight.

If a new law forces open access to general purpose computing systems, there won't be another company.
 
3rd party software distribution should be the right of the authors, not Apple.

As Flat Five's awesome answer is Apple give's developers access to its programming language & tools to develop their apps on their platform, not to be sold on someone else's website or store.

In short, Apple should be forced by law to make their OS for sale for 3rd party products.

WOW....capitalism to a dictatorship in record time. Who's the armchair lawyer now? As much as you seem to hate large corporations you seem to make decisions like one.
 
This has nothing to do with "open source". It would only require them making available the interface to load/unload software to the device like you can do with OSX, Linux or M$ Windows (or any other operating system out there for general computing). It is only "mobile" operating systems that have denied access to loading your own software and as the jailbreak people have shown, it's simple enough to add a way to load 3rd party apps.

so i can jailbreak an iphone an load an android app on it?
i'm talking about the software &/or code which is used by developers to write their software.. a dev doesn't sit there and write from the ground up.. they generally make their app by piecing together building blocks/using tools written & provided by apple.

but this already went through the system 5years ago and we see the results of ftc and doj intervention

http://nypost.com/2010/05/03/an-antitrust-app/
May 2010... nypost said:
According to a person familiar with the matter, the Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission are locked in negotiations over which of the watchdogs will begin an antitrust inquiry into Apple’s new policy of requiring software developers who devise applications for devices such as the iPhone and iPad to use only Apple’s programming tools.

Regulators, this person said, are days away from making a decision about which agency will launch the inquiry. It will focus on whether the policy, which took effect last month, kills competition by forcing programmers to choose between developing apps that can run only on Apple gizmos or come up with apps that are platform neutral, and can be used on a variety of operating systems, such as those from rivals Google, Microsoft and Research In Motion.

there are other ways to write apps for use on iphones which completely circumnavigates the whole appstore/xcode/cocoa thing.. @Dorje Sylas mentioned it on the previous page.. html5, java, etc.. web based apps (which is how the original iphones worked anyway).. this is still possible. spotify can write their app this way right now.

they don't because (i imagine) the customer much prefers the experience of apps.


So the question is whether "general purpose computers" (as in open to 3rd party developers) should "have" to allow competition for software distribution when companies like Apple are charging 1/3 of a program's price to do it for you.
the question for who?
the overseers such as the federal trade commision or dept of justice?
they've already inquired the legality of apple being requiring devs to use apple software to make the app in the first place.. that, apparently, has been deemed ok by the people who could change regulations.. and that's way bigger / more crippling in the $cheme of things than this recurring cut apple is currently receiving from subscriptions.

This is about rights to use your computer for what you want, not about a money system. It simply comes down to the money system at the moment because that's where the only laws are that might affect any of this. I'm saying we need laws to cover user rights for general purpose computing (which I would define as any computer system that has 3rd party developers).
the system is flawed.. your rights have been trampled on already and it's only getting worse.
our lawmakers are key players in the system.. the flawed system.

you're saying 'we need these laws' etc.. who, exactly, are you expecting to make these laws?
 
I don't like private corporations censoring what can and cannot go on my computer in general

I'm quite sure Apple does not like private citizens telling them they have to program their own operating system to go on their competitors hardware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rhett7660
Maybe... I still don't get why people would care about Apple Music considering there is nothing new about a $9.99 music streaming service, it's existed for a long time. The real 'revolution' is Spotify's free plan which Apple can't touch yet (though they've tried coercing music labels to force Spotify to give up the free plan). So I don't see Apple music being a threat yet.
Apparently Spotify disagrees with you.
I've switched my whole family to Apple Music. It's doubtful I'm the only one.
 
Apparently Spotify disagrees with you.
I've switched my whole family to Apple Music. It's doubtful I'm the only one.

I agree the $15 family plan pricing is the best feature, you'd be right there. But not everyone is getting a family plan, and not everyone is committing to monthly fees, many still use Spotify's free plan. And Spotify already offers the same single pricing as Apple of $9.99, if/when they match Apple's family plan pricing which is possible, what incentive do you have left? Because Apple Music's UI/UX is some of the worst UX design I've seen from Apple in a while.

And last but not least Spotify has almost a decade of maturity with invaluable features such as curated user-made playlists which I find essential. Apple has a couple of years to catch up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
Yeah and that's what is happening here. There was a business agreement between to parties and Spotify knew full well what they were getting into. This isn't some predatory thing. The rules have been the same since the beginning for everyone.
Well, the rules have obviously changed...if you have a monopoly in a certain field (in this case I think getting apps on i-devices may be considered just that) you may not discriminate.
So while Apple did not compete in that market (music-streaming on i-devices) it was a level playing field for all. But now that they are directly competing in that market one could easily argue that the 30% fee is discriminating against other competing services in an unlawful way...will be interesting what the ftc will have to say...
 
Well, the rules have obviously changed...if you have a monopoly in a certain field (in this case I think getting apps on i-devices may be considered just that) you may not discriminate.
So while Apple did not compete in that market (music-streaming on i-devices) it was a level playing field for all. But now that they are directly competing in that market one could easily argue that the 30% fee is discriminating against other competing services in an unlawful way...will be interesting what the ftc will have to say...

You will have a hard time convincing me that iOS is a monopoly just because Apple owns the product line. Mobile is just one of many platforms Spotify competes upon. The user can still signup on the web if they want a cheaper price.
 
I guess I just don't understand the 'who doesn't like their team to win?'

How is Apple 'your team?' You are a customer. A revenue stream. They want to eek every single penny they can out of you. Charging 30% monthly for Spotify users doesn't help their customers...it helps Apple

You're not part of their team. Their marketing department does a wonderful job of duping their customers into thinking they are buying an experience and thinking they are different. But ultimately, like every other company, their goal is revenue and profits. Nothing is wrong with that. It's their job to look out for their interests...it's our job to look out after ours.

As a consumer I worry about when we give big business a free pass to engage in potentially unfair trade practices....just because we think they make cool products.
I know I am but a revenue stream to Apple. With Apple, I am perfectly clear where I stand - they make great products, and I buy them if I think I like them.

In a nutshell, I like to watch empires rise and fall (to be more specific, I like to watch Apple rise and their competitors fall). It just fascinates me. I like to watch the strong get stronger. Apple has been very fascinating in that they started out doing the exact opposite of conventional wisdom, and not only proved that they were right, but also succeeded in making their competitors look like utter idiots while they were at it.

I respect Apple's strength. I respect how they have managed to claw their way back from the brink of bankruptcy to become the juggernaut they are today. I respect how they are able to control both their hardware and their software. It is this sheer and utter control over their own ecosystem and the end user experience that has impressed me.

And if by getting stronger, Android fanboys have one less avenue to attack me with when I visit forums like Cnet, all the better. I can think of no better retort than for Apple to thoroughly and utterly dominate the markets they choose to enter. If not in market share, then in terms of influence and profits.

I realise this way of thinking is not rational by any means, but hey, human beings were never rational people to begin with, however much we try to portray ourselves as such.
 
  • Like
Reactions: powers74
Apple ties software to hardware on ALL its devices (including Macs) thus denying 100% of all hardware competition for the OSX market (and has sued in court over this).

As far as Macs and OS X go, people have tried to accuse Apple of illegally tying software to hardware, and the argument has been thrown out of the courts. E.g. a few years back, a company called Psystar tried to openly sell Hackintoshes, and when they were duly stomped on by Apple lawyers, that was one of their defences: http://lawblog.usfca.edu/internetjustice/2010/apple-v-psystar-and-the-apple-tax-legal-analysis/ (scroll down to the 'Copyright Misuse Defense' section).

Admittedly, this is OS X, not iOS where the tying is a bit more extreme, but I suspect the conclusion would be the same. I think that you can rest assured that Apple have paid real, bone-fide anti-trust lawyers to tell them exactly how far they can go.

Also, iOS isn't the first time this has been done: only allowing software approved and licensed by the hardware manufacturer been standard operating practice on games consoles since forever.

The problem is, the whole point of copyright law is to allow the rights holder to dictate how, where and when it can be used. Since there's no doubt that Apple has an enforceable copyright in OS X and iOS (they haven't just taken FreeBSD and added a poem by Tim Cook so that they can claim copyright) then they get to say how it gets used.
 
I know I am but a revenue stream to Apple. With Apple, I am perfectly clear where I stand - they make great products, and I buy them if I think I like them.

In a nutshell, I like to watch empires rise and fall (to be more specific, I like to watch Apple rise and their competitors fall). It just fascinates me. I like to watch the strong get stronger. Apple has been very fascinating in that they started out doing the exact opposite of conventional wisdom, and not only proved that they were right, but also succeeded in making their competitors look like utter idiots while they were at it.

I respect Apple's strength. I respect how they have managed to claw their way back from the brink of bankruptcy to become the juggernaut they are today. I respect how they are able to control both their hardware and their software. It is this sheer and utter control over their own ecosystem and the end user experience that has impressed me.

And if by getting stronger, Android fanboys have one less avenue to attack me with when I visit forums like Cnet, all the better. I can think of no better retort than for Apple to thoroughly and utterly dominate the markets they choose to enter. If not in market share, then in terms of influence and profits.

I realise this way of thinking is not rational by any means, but hey, human beings were never rational people to begin with, however much we try to portray ourselves as such.

I'm with you in that l like to enjoy the rise and fall of empires. And I'm a sucker for a big underdog story. Apple rising from the ashes to become a giant is an incredible business story. And they was a day that they built a string of incredible must have devices that.

But I'm not a big fan of big fat happy Apple that churns out mediocre products (entry level iMac, Apple Watch, iPad Mini 3, new Macbook) and coast on the reputation that they've built.

The most dangerous thing for the Apple that customers grew to love is they have a complacent, forgiving fanbase that will blindly accept everything they do as right and vigorously defend them. You see it in these types of threads where whoever it is pitched on the other side of an issue (Samsung, Android, Microsoft, PC Industry, etc) is swarmed by Apple fans like a zombie...regardless of point being made.

When Apple makes a ridiculous amount of profit, they cheer like it wasn't their pocket getting picked. When Apple engages in questionable business practices, they are blindly defended as being right and the other party being wrong. They avoid paying US taxes despite being wildly profitable. How clever of them! (Though in fairness most US companies US world tax law to their advantage and dupe the public into thinking it's really for their best interest.)

Like I said, I enjoy a lot of Apple products too...but not blindly. And with Tim Cook at the helm, there has been a lot less to like about Apple.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
I agree the $15 family plan pricing is the best feature, you'd be right there. But not everyone is getting a family plan, and not everyone is committing to monthly fees, many still use Spotify's free plan. And Spotify already offers the same single pricing as Apple of $9.99, if/when they match Apple's family plan pricing which is possible, what incentive do you have left? Because Apple Music's UI/UX is some of the worst UX design I've seen from Apple in a while.

And last but not least Spotify has almost a decade of maturity with invaluable features such as curated user-made playlists which I find essential. Apple has a couple of years to catch up.
To each their own, but I could never stand the spotify UI. Too much tapping the back button.

The Apple UI could stand a few tweaks, but for me, it's worlds faster to get where I want.
The iCloud Library match feature is great for me (sure, not for all),
a feature that spotify can't match.
I do think spotify had some great playlists, but it's not hard to "catch up" to making playlists.
 
You will have a hard time convincing me that iOS is a monopoly just because Apple owns the product line. Mobile is just one of many platforms Spotify competes upon. The user can still signup on the web if they want a cheaper price.

Here's the way I see it. Everyone always says it's Apples store, and they can place whatever they please within it. This isn't wrong. It's well within their rights to host what they want to host.

But if they do decide to host something, they have to abide by certain conditions, especially if they're offering a competing service of their own. Just because they own the store doesn't mean they can be blatantly anticompetitive, gaming their own system to the detriment of others.

In Spotify's case, it's considerably more difficult to sign up for a $9.99 account on iOS than it is anywhere else. If you go through the app, which is what most people are likely to do, you'll be paying considerably more than you otherwise would, which makes Apple Music look more attractive at first glance. Signing up through the website to get the competitive price is a more convoluted process comparatively, since you have to go through Spotify's website directly of your own accord without any links taking you there. It's hardly the end of the world having to do this, but at the same time it isn't everything in one spot, click and you're off easy like it is in Apple's own app, and it's due to Apple's own rules and regulations that make it this way.
 
I'm quite sure Apple does not like private citizens telling them they have to program their own operating system to go on their competitors hardware.

Just look at the way you're talking. You're sure Apple doesn't like it from "private citizens" as if there's something wrong with the citizens of this country having a say in how it's run. We are supposed to be a democracy and therefore, YES, private citizens SHOULD have a say in how things are run in this country. A better way to put it would be I'm sure I don't like Apple telling private citizens what they CAN and CAN NOT put on their own computers! And that's exactly what they do when they censor apps for iOS. It's none of their business what I do with my computer I bought and paid for. Honestly, I don't comprehend why some of you are just fine with Apple telling you what you can run and what you cannot run. You paid for that computer and what you do is your business on it. The last time I checked we still had a Constitution that guaranteed a right to privacy, but it seems that is the #1 LAW that everyone (companies, hackers and government) keep on breaking every single day. If Apple doesn't want people to have freedom on their computers they buy, they should get out of the computer business.

As far as Macs and OS X go, people have tried to accuse Apple of illegally tying software to hardware, and the argument has been thrown out of the courts.

You obviously don't understand that case at all. It was thrown out of courts ONLY because Psystar pre-installed OSX on their computers and thus breaking a COPYRIGHT law. The larger question of "anti-trust" was NEVER addressed or answered. Plus as I've said before, we now have a Supreme Court that openly violates the Constitution and "makes laws" on the bench. They are supposed to interpret law, not make it. If you can't see the problem with that then you don't support the very Constitution this country is based upon. When your own government violates its own laws, you've got a real problem.

The problem is, the whole point of copyright law is to allow the rights holder to dictate how, where and when it can be used. Since there's no doubt that Apple has an enforceable copyright in OS X and iOS (they haven't just taken FreeBSD and added a poem by Tim Cook so that they can claim copyright) then they get to say how it gets used.

There's a difference between getting compensated monetarily (the true purpose of copyright law) and using it to monopolize different (hardware) markets. Computers did not exist as they do today when copyright law was made. It was never designed for operating system licensing agreements on open platform computer systems. Trying to argue the "intent" of the law in that regard is a waste of time since it didn't exist. A book that is made to be sold and read is very different from a computing environment that is meant to be utilized to get work done. It is not legal for Crayola to tell you what kind of pictures you can make with their crayons once you bought the crayons. Why should it be legal for Apple or Microsoft to tell you what you can and cannot do with their operating system once you bought their OS and/or computer with it? Copyright laws are there to prevent COPYING and selling the copy to others for profit. They are not designed to limit trade, productivity and competition in other areas.
 
Last edited:
Just look at the way you're talking. You're sure Apple doesn't like it from "private citizens" as if there's something wrong with the citizens of this country having a say in how it's run.

Not to get too political, but you just touched on something that doesn't make sense to me. These conversations almost always end up with someone going off on a free market tirade, but not in the way you'd think. It always concerns some big corporation doing as they please, without any concern for themselves.

"It's a free market, damnit! Big Corp X has ever right to limit MY options if they damn well please!"

...why are you sticking up for them? They've got money. They've got lawyers. They can fight their own legal battles. Why don't you look out for your own interests? If you spent a ton of money on Apple gear, wouldn't it be nice to have the choice between Apple Music and Spotify for the same price? Yeah, I know. No one forced you to buy Apple, and you can always sell your stuff off and go somewhere where you have more choice, but that's kind of a cop out answer to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mantan and LordVic
You're sure Apple doesn't like it from "private citizens" as if there's something wrong with the citizens of this country having a say in how it's run. We are supposed to be a democracy and therefore, YES, private citizens SHOULD have a say in how things are run in this country.

Democracy does not work with a independently run business, nor should it. You vote with your wallet and you can decide what product is right for you instead of trying to make a company bend to your will at any cost. While Apples products may not be what your looking for, Apple products work for millions of other consumers.
 
As Flat Five's awesome answer is Apple give's developers access to its programming language & tools to develop their apps on their platform, not to be sold on someone else's website or store.



WOW....capitalism to a dictatorship in record time. Who's the armchair lawyer now? As much as you seem to hate large corporations you seem to make decisions like one.

One big difference though between mobile and edesktop computing is not just the API's, but access to the low level systems.

In standard computing, while you have access to first party API's, Such as DirectX or Apple's implementation, you are not rerquired to use them, to acheive the same results. Standard computing concepts allow you to write, and use your own API's right down to the metal if you so choose.

This is fundamentally different in Mobile as Apple in particular (not sure about google or microsoft) outright block that. You cannot CHoose not to use their API. if you don't use their API, you don't have your software on their device.

this goes part in parcel with the dominating control that could be seen as anti-competitive
 
This is fundamentally different in Mobile as Apple in particular (not sure about google or microsoft) outright block that. You cannot CHoose not to use their API. if you don't use their API, you don't have your software on their device.

this goes part in parcel with the dominating control that could be seen as anti-competitive

i'm not 100% on the details of this but i think steve jobs was able to thwart an anti-competitive investigation by basically saying the competition sucks (adobe flash for example) and would result in a less-than-perfect user experience on ios devices..
something like that
 
Not to get too political, but you just touched on something that doesn't make sense to me. These conversations almost always end up with someone going off on a free market tirade, but not in the way you'd think. It always concerns some big corporation doing as they please, without any concern for themselves.

"It's a free market, damnit! Big Corp X has ever right to limit MY options if they damn well please!"

...why are you sticking up for them? They've got money. They've got lawyers. They can fight their own legal battles. Why don't you look out for your own interests? If you spent a ton of money on Apple gear, wouldn't it be nice to have the choice between Apple Music and Spotify for the same price? Yeah, I know. No one forced you to buy Apple, and you can always sell your stuff off and go somewhere where you have more choice, but that's kind of a cop out answer to me.

IMHO:

Corporations should be subject to the exact same rules and laws as, if not more restrictive rules and laws than citizen. they should be held to strict socially responsible rules.

Corporations are here to serve humanity. They're here to create goods and services that benefit PEOPLE first.

When did this reverse mindset come in where corporations come first before the rights and benefit of individuals? why has the US system allowed Corporations and their interests to be so tightly melded with that of governing?

it seems like we've done this topsy turvey sociological perspective where the the idea of "free trade" should automatically trump the responsibilities that should be owed to individuals.

we're really starting to get into some heavy philosophical talk here though. IMHO again, the point of governments is to look out for the CITIZENS of the country first. Corporations are not people.

But who am I to talk, I'm just a pinko commie :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: powers74
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.