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Wow. That second one just proves you have no clue what you're talking about. The one port MacBook isn't about saving money. If you paid attention to the announcement, you'd know it was about wanting as few ports as possible to push wireless. If they do the same here, it'll likely be for the same reason.

Apple has always pushed wireless as hard as possible.

I purchased my wife the new MacBook. I love its lightweight and slim design, and I actually like the new keyboard keys (17% larger and 40% thinner with a deeper curvature to hold your fingers better), but the single USB-C port sucks. You need yet another dongle (Apple's solution for everything) if you want to charge and access USB at the same time.

One of Apple's coolest laptop innovations was the MagSafe power cord, but they removed that too in the new MacBook. So is electricity going to be wireless, maybe Apple will conduct a séance with Nikola Tesla to resurrect wireless electricity.

Oh yea, they use the 3.5mm audio jack in the new MacBook, so go figure.

Lightning port for power and audio on iPhone, USB-C on some laptops (with a 3.5mm audio jack), not sure what will happen with the iPad. Seems like a poorly coordinated strategy when it comes to ports across their devices.
 
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I purchased my wife the new MacBook. I love its lightweight and slim design, and I actually like the new keyboard keys (17% larger and 40% thinner with a deeper curvature to hold your fingers better), but the single USB-C port sucks. You need yet another dongle (Apple's solution for everything) if you want to charge and access USB at the same time.

One of Apple's coolest laptop innovations was the MagSafe power cord, but they removed that too in the new MacBook. So is electricity going to be wireless, maybe Apple will conduct a séance with Nikola Tesla to resurrect wireless electricity.

Oh yea, they use the 3.5mm audio jack in the new MacBook, so go figure.

Lightning port for power and audio on iPhone, USB-C on some laptops (with a 3.5mm audio jack), not sure what will happen with the iPad. Seems like a poorly coordinated strategy when it comes to ports across their devices.

I think that they should have removed the 3.5 on the MacBook. Also, I generally see the one port MacBook as the one port being primarily a power port that can occasionally do other things.
 
If you want to discuss something pertinent to the article or have a meaningful conversation that actually has substance to the topic besides the frivolous ideation you have, I would be happy to do so. The way I use the term deleted is appropriate and in context.

But thanks for taking the time to read your dictionary and providing a definition of deleted. But that doesn't change how I will use it in context on Macrumors or anywhere else for that matter.

Yes Sargeant!

closeup-of-a-young-man-wearing-a-military-uniform-saluting-picture-id57279486
 
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Actually they are moving us forward. the 3.5mm jack is analog technology from 1970. The lightning is digital and will produce a cleaner sound. As for not having it on the computer line...they've got to start somewhere so why not with a device that already has a lightning port. And if you are so concerned about your old 3.5mm headphones, buy an adapter or get a bluetooth pair.
I'm not sure if i'm gonna laught or cry to this post, because it's pretty obvious that you don't know ANYTHING about sound.

1st. You can't hear the digital sound as the ears can only understand analog sound signals. Because of that, the digital sound HAS to be converted over to analog sound before you ears can hear the music.

2nd. Moving the internal DAC in the phone 5-10 cm out of the phone into the controller on the headphone cable wont make a difference at all, because you still has to get the sound converted to analog before you can hear the sound.

3rd. You can already use the Lightning ports on the iPhones and even the MicroUSB ports on Android phone today to use headphones with it's own DAC's buildt in that way.

But then, why is pretty much no one using that then if it's supposed to be that much better?

Because everyone gives a rat ass about them, because they gives no benefits for the normal users who listens to MP3, OGG, AAC music files. Yes the internal DACs on the high end smartphones today are good enough by a ton for the casual users, so why should they need a better DAC in that case?

4th. The 3.5mm minijack will never be outdated as that port can deliver way more sound than what our ears can hear to begin with. So why change it out with something else that wont make the sound better with another port?

It's the DAC and the headphone speakers that determines the sound quality, not the port you are connecting the headphones to.

And lastly, get a clue on sound before you post nonsense like that next time.
 
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I'm not sure if i'm gonna laught or cry to this post, because it's pretty obvious that you don't know ANYTHING about sound.

1st. You can't hear the digital sound as the ears can only understand analog sound signals. Because of that, the digital sound HAS to be converted over to analog sound before you ears can hear the music.

2nd. Moving the internal DAC in the phone 5-10 cm out of the phone into the controller on the headphone cable wont make a difference at all, because you still has to get the sound converted to analog before you can hear the sound.

3rd. You can already use the Lightning ports on the iPhones and even the MicroUSB ports on Android phone today to use headphones with it's own DAC's buildt in that way.

But then, why is pretty much no one using that then if it's supposed to be that much better?

Because everyone gives a rat ass about them, because they gives no benefits for the normal users who listens to MP3, OGG, AAC music files. Yes the internal DACs on the high end smartphones today are good enough by a ton for the casual users, so why should they need a better DAC in that case?

4th. The 3.5mm minijack will never be outdated as that port can deliver way more sound than what our ears can hear to begin with. So why change it out with something else that wont make the sound better with another port?

It's the DAC and the headphone speakers that determines the sound quality, not the port you are connecting the headphones to.

And lastly, get a clue on sound before you post nonsense like that next time.

OMG this so funny.

You are 100% correct, so many people keep droning on and on about the "quality" using Lightning and they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Every time I see some idiot talking about Lightning quality, I'm going to cut/past your response because it's great.
 
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I hope they keep the SD and HDMI as for a high end machine I don't expect to carry around adaptors..

What next just Bluetooth to connect!

I agree about SD unless some creative professionals can explain why Apple would move away from something It seems the industry relies on daily.

As for HDMI, I'd think they'd be just as willing to move to USB-C.

I purchased my wife the new MacBook. I love its lightweight and slim design, and I actually like the new keyboard keys (17% larger and 40% thinner with a deeper curvature to hold your fingers better), but the single USB-C port sucks. You need yet another dongle (Apple's solution for everything) if you want to charge and access USB at the same time.

One of Apple's coolest laptop innovations was the MagSafe power cord, but they removed that too in the new MacBook. So is electricity going to be wireless, maybe Apple will conduct a séance with Nikola Tesla to resurrect wireless electricity.

Oh yea, they use the 3.5mm audio jack in the new MacBook, so go figure.

Lightning port for power and audio on iPhone, USB-C on some laptops (with a 3.5mm audio jack), not sure what will happen with the iPad. Seems like a poorly coordinated strategy when it comes to ports across their devices.

Mag-safe is overkill now that the MacBooks have become so lightweight. I've almost pulled MBAs off the desk before the mag-safe detached.

The charging strategy across their devices seems to be leaning toward Lightning as evidenced by the Pencil, Apple TV remote, and Mac desktop keyboard and mouse peripherals.

See below for the rest:

I think that they should have removed the 3.5 on the MacBook. Also, I generally see the one port MacBook as the one port being primarily a power port that can occasionally do other things.

My personal theory is that the 3.5mm jack is going to be replaced with the Lightning port as soon as Apple drops it from the iPhone. Then most customers will be able to charge it with the same cable they use for the iPhone & iPad, leaving their USB-C free to do the heavy lifting. They can't replace it now without tipping their hand.
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I'm not sure if i'm gonna laught or cry to this post, because it's pretty obvious that you don't know ANYTHING about sound.

1st. You can't hear the digital sound as the ears can only understand analog sound signals. Because of that, the digital sound HAS to be converted over to analog sound before you ears can hear the music.

2nd. Moving the internal DAC in the phone 5-10 cm out of the phone into the controller on the headphone cable wont make a difference at all, because you still has to get the sound converted to analog before you can hear the sound.

3rd. You can already use the Lightning ports on the iPhones and even the MicroUSB ports on Android phone today to use headphones with it's own DAC's buildt in that way.

But then, why is pretty much no one using that then if it's supposed to be that much better?

Because everyone gives a rat ass about them, because they gives no benefits for the normal users who listens to MP3, OGG, AAC music files. Yes the internal DACs on the high end smartphones today are good enough by a ton for the casual users, so why should they need a better DAC in that case?

4th. The 3.5mm minijack will never be outdated as that port can deliver way more sound than what our ears can hear to begin with. So why change it out with something else that wont make the sound better with another port?

It's the DAC and the headphone speakers that determines the sound quality, not the port you are connecting the headphones to.

And lastly, get a clue on sound before you post nonsense like that next time.

1. I seriously don't understand what's up with so many people pedantically parsing the semantics regarding such comments. We're talking about interface mechanics, not listening to music through some sort of binary device attached directly to the brain. "Digital" headphones are just that -- headphones that receive their signal digitally.

2. I don't even understand the point of this statement.

3. One need look no further for an explanation than to the conversion to digital TV broadcasts -- such broadcasts were readily available before the government mandate, yet flat screen digital TVs did not start flying off the shelves until they turned the signal off. Could it be that lack of demand caused the new TVs to cost too much? Could it be that despite availability of digital broadcasts, they weren't widely promoted, or easy to find on digital tuners, nor much HD content that wasn't just up-res'd SD broadcast? Could the presence of cheap CRT technology and continuing broadcast of familiar SD content make contemplating a move toward obvious improvement less attractive? Interesting parallels. I'd say that explains why Lightning has not taken off. Nobody needed a better television, especially given the cost. But look at it now, HD sets now sell for even less than CRTs used to.

4. This is just your opinion mixed with facts. First, the port has nothing to do with it, again, unnecessary parsing of semantics when we all know it has nothing to do with the physical port, but rather what kind of signal the port delivers through it. The quality of sound delivered by the iPhone is mostly limited by the amp, depending on what headphones are attached. So yes, even though there is room for improvement on the DAC, it will be largely unnoticeable to all but the best trained ears. But the amp can be improved considerably, as well as better matched to the individual headphones than the iPhone will ever be capable of. Custom DAC/DSP & amps can and will improve the quality of individual headphones, if nothing else offering consistency of sound across multiple devices. That's worth something right there, if nothing else. But again, it's all just opinion, including yours.

On your very last point -- "get a clue" is just rude conduct which does nothing toward fostering civil conduct, and would normally not get a reply from me. And if you respond the way I expect you will, I'll probably be adding you to my ignore list.
 
1. I seriously don't understand what's up with so many people pedantically parsing the semantics regarding such comments. We're talking about interface mechanics, not listening to music through some sort of binary device attached directly to the brain. "Digital" headphones are just that -- headphones that receive their signal digitally.

2. I don't even understand the point of this statement.

3. One need look no further for an explanation than to the conversion to digital TV broadcasts -- such broadcasts were readily available before the government mandate, yet flat screen digital TVs did not start flying off the shelves until they turned the signal off. Could it be that lack of demand caused the new TVs to cost too much? Could it be that despite availability of digital broadcasts, they weren't widely promoted, or easy to find on digital tuners, nor much HD content that wasn't just up-res'd SD broadcast? Could the presence of cheap CRT technology and continuing broadcast of familiar SD content make contemplating a move toward obvious improvement less attractive? Interesting parallels. I'd say that explains why Lightning has not taken off. Nobody needed a better television, especially given the cost. But look at it now, HD sets now sell for even less than CRTs used to.

4. This is just your opinion mixed with facts. First, the port has nothing to do with it, again, unnecessary parsing of semantics when we all know it has nothing to do with the physical port, but rather what kind of signal the port delivers through it. The quality of sound delivered by the iPhone is mostly limited by the amp, depending on what headphones are attached. So yes, even though there is room for improvement on the DAC, it will be largely unnoticeable to all but the best trained ears. But the amp can be improved considerably, as well as better matched to the individual headphones than the iPhone will ever be capable of. Custom DAC/DSP & amps can and will improve the quality of individual headphones, if nothing else offering consistency of sound across multiple devices. That's worth something right there, if nothing else. But again, it's all just opinion, including yours.

On your very last point -- "get a clue" is just rude conduct which does nothing toward fostering civil conduct, and would normally not get a reply from me. And if you respond the way I expect you will, I'll probably be adding you to my ignore list.
1. The point is that it doesn't matter where the headphones are receiving the digital signal from as the DAC independent from where it's located (inside or outside the phone) has to transform that digital signal into analog signal so we can hear the music.

2. This means that if you take the DAC out from the phone and removes the 3.5mm minijack and then use the Lightning port as the audio out port and then place the same DAC inside the headphones controller, you wont get better sound. You will still get the 100% exact same sound quality here as you did via the 3.5mm minijack. Because it's the DAC and the headphone speakers that determines the sound quality and not the ports you connects the headphones to.

3. My point is that there are 1000000000000% nonsense to change out the internal DAC to something better outside of the phone as you will never be able to hear ANY differences in the sound quality with the better external DACs in headphones for example to the internal DACs that comes with the high end smartphones today as long as you are listening to musics with lossy formats like MP3, OGG, AAC and so on. You have to go up to FLAC, WAV or even DSD before you are going to hear any differences with an external DAC in headphones. Pretty much no one is using music formats like those on smartphones today because of their HUGE size.

4. I know this as hard facts. Because there doesn't exists ANY evidences that a Lightning port is magically gonna make the musics to sound better over a 3.5mm minijack. Because it doesn't. A single port does NOT controll the sound quality, because that's what the DAC and the speakers in the headphones does.

Take a guess why the worlds most expensive DAPs out in the market are using 3.5mm minijacks today even though there exists many other ports that are newer and so on?

And take a guess why every other DACs out there uses either 3.5mm or 6.35mm headphonejacks?

You don't have to be a genious to figure out why, because the 3.5mm / 6.35mm jacks is as good as it possibly can be to what the ears can understand / hear when it comes to delivering sound.

Or can you prove me wrong?

Good luck proving me wrong.

Oh lastly, i said 'get a clue' because what he said is nonsense / false. If you can prove my points to be wrong, i'm gonna remove what i said to him there and make an apology.

But hey, go ahead and block me, because i don't care.
 
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Apple have made some bad decisions lately but this one really takes the biscuit. I'm not going to call it a deal breaker in that I'm going to buy a different phone or anything but I will hold off with any upgrades. The 3.5mm jack is integral to the digital lifestyle at the moment. This is one place where Apple will not be able to get enough critical mass behind their technology. This will be yet another annoying, unnecessarily expensive, flop.

There is no benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack. As already mentioned, you're just moving the DAC to sit on the cable instead. It's pointless and just an exercise in making a simple thing more expensive. The 3.5mm jack has no obvious defects or bottle necks, none!

The only limitation to higher quality audio on the apple devices is the lack of storage, fix that instead!

This will be the same as Thunderbolt in that after several years on the market there are sweet f-a thunderbolt accessories. The ones in existence are both buggy and expensive.

I'm not going to go out and buy an android phone if they actually go ahead with this. I just won't upgrade to a phone without 3.5mm jack. Not for the foreseeable future anyway. I will however complain as much as I can about it. They backed down on the 4" screen, they can back down on this as well.
 
Apple have made some bad decisions lately but this one really takes the biscuit. I'm not going to call it a deal breaker in that I'm going to buy a different phone or anything but I will hold off with any upgrades. The 3.5mm jack is integral to the digital lifestyle at the moment. This is one place where Apple will not be able to get enough critical mass behind their technology. This will be yet another annoying, unnecessarily expensive, flop.

There is no benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack. As already mentioned, you're just moving the DAC to sit on the cable instead. It's pointless and just an exercise in making a simple thing more expensive. The 3.5mm jack has no obvious defects or bottle necks, none!

The only limitation to higher quality audio on the apple devices is the lack of storage, fix that instead!

This will be the same as Thunderbolt in that after several years on the market there are sweet f-a thunderbolt accessories. The ones in existence are both buggy and expensive.

I'm not going to go out and buy an android phone if they actually go ahead with this. I just won't upgrade to a phone without 3.5mm jack. Not for the foreseeable future anyway. I will however complain as much as I can about it. They backed down on the 4" screen, they can back down on this as well.

I like your post. Also, removing the 3.5mm does not eliminate the internal DAC or simply "move the DAC to sit on the cable" because Apple still needs a DAC inside the iPhone to drive the internal speakers. So you could say removing the 3.5mm jack will then trigger the need for two DACs.
 
I like your post. Also, removing the 3.5mm does not eliminate the internal DAC or simply "move the DAC to sit on the cable" because Apple still needs a DAC inside the iPhone to drive the internal speakers. So you could say removing the 3.5mm jack will then trigger the need for two DACs.

Virtually every BT device in existence has a DAC. Many wireless devices do to. Why is having more than one DAC even an issue here for you?
 
I'm super disappointed that they went with lightning, I mean I had a pretty good feeling, but I am still disappointed. I was hoping for USB C on iPhone.

4+ head phone standards is too much; Lightning, USB C, BT, standard 3.5mm, it's just too much. I mean it's really just one more, but still.
 
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I'm super disappointed that they went with lightning, I mean I had a pretty good feeling, but I am still disappointed. I was hoping for USB C on iPhone.

4+ head phone standards is too much; Lightning, USB C, BT, standard 3.5mm, it's just too much. I mean it's really just one more, but still.

You might want to wait until all of those USBc headphones materialize ... This picture of Michael phelps is likely going to do a lot for wireless headphone adoption this year establishing it as the new standard ...

michael-phelps.jpg
 
You might want to wait until all of those USBc headphones materialize ... This picture of Michael phelps is likely going to do a lot for wireless headphone adoption this year establishing it as the new standard ...

michael-phelps.jpg
Yeah so far there's only a few I know of, one of which comes with the Moto Z. Not saying much I know but still.

USB C seems like a better standard if you asked me, it's a standard I feel like will be widely used. Lightning only iOS devices and I get why wireless is nice but I personally don't like managing battery life on headsets. As a gamer, I hate wireless headsets for that very reason.
 
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Yeah so far there's only a few I know of, one of which comes with the Moto Z. Not saying much I know but still.

USB C seems like a better standard if you asked me, it's a standard I feel like will be widely used. Lightning only iOS devices and I get why wireless is nice but I personally don't like managing battery life on headsets. As a gamer, I hate wireless headsets for that very reason.

I don't disagree with you at all. Lightning will never become a "standard" unless USB-C is discovered to have some fatal flaw and Lightning quickly steps in to fill a void, though I would imagine people would just as likely fall back to USB 3.

What I'm saying, is that a wired standard doesn't mean much if the primary way people are using the device is wireless.

Ethernet is a perfect example. Nobody is arguing that Ethernet is not better than wireless in every way, however, it isn't used much in mobile applications, and increasingly being relegated to server farms and use behind the corporate firewall in physical fixed office spaces.

I'm certainly not arguing that 3.5mm is or is not superior to Lightning for passing a signal, digital or otherwise. They're both just different configurations of the same metal conductors. What I am arguing is that in the end wireless trumps both of those formats for practical application, assuming certain obstacles, which are fast being being overcome, are addressed. Chief among them, sound quality and ease of use. Battery life will likely be the last issue addressed, but the introduction of wireless charging in a a few years would shift the balance dramatically for most people.
 
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I don't disagree with you at all. Lightning will never become a "standard" unless USB-C is discovered to have some fatal flaw and Lightning quickly steps in to fill a void, though I would imagine people would just as likely fall back to USB 3.

What I'm saying, is that a wired standard doesn't mean much if the primary way people are using the device is wireless.

Ethernet is a perfect example. Nobody is arguing that Ethernet is not better than wireless in every way, however, it isn't used much in mobile applications, and increasingly being relegated to server farms and use behind the corporate firewall in physical fixed office spaces.

I'm certainly not arguing that 3.5mm is or is not superior to Lightning for passing a signal, digital or otherwise. They're both just different configurations of the same metal conductors. What I am arguing is that in the end wireless trumps both of those formats for practical application, assuming certain obstacles, which are fast being being overcome, are addressed. Chief among them, sound quality and was of use. Battery life will likely be the last issue addressed, but the introduction of wireless charging in a a few years would shift the balance dramatically for most people.
Oh yeah I agree, I just don't like it. I'll adapt though, I'm unfortunately quite the conformist.
 
I don't disagree with you at all. Lightning will never become a "standard" unless USB-C is discovered to have some fatal flaw and Lightning quickly steps in to fill a void, though I would imagine people would just as likely fall back to USB 3.

What I'm saying, is that a wired standard doesn't mean much if the primary way people are using the device is wireless.

Ethernet is a perfect example. Nobody is arguing that Ethernet is not better than wireless in every way, however, it isn't used much in mobile applications, and increasingly being relegated to server farms and use behind the corporate firewall in physical fixed office spaces.

I'm certainly not arguing that 3.5mm is or is not superior to Lightning for passing a signal, digital or otherwise. They're both just different configurations of the same metal conductors. What I am arguing is that in the end wireless trumps both of those formats for practical application, assuming certain obstacles, which are fast being being overcome, are addressed. Chief among them, sound quality and ease of use. Battery life will likely be the last issue addressed, but the introduction of wireless charging in a a few years would shift the balance dramatically for most people.

I also agree with your logic. The part I don't like is that wireless or lightning based sound can occur today without removing the 3.5mm jack. The 3.5mm jack isn't standing in the way of anything. When Apple removes a technology, it is usually because that technology is no longer being used much by the majority. In this case, the majority still use the 3.5mm.
 
Virtually every BT device in existence has a DAC. Many wireless devices do to. Why is having more than one DAC even an issue here for you?

Good question. I mention the internal DAC still being needed because many people have posted that removing the 3.5mm jack "shifts" the DAC to the listening device (e.g., wireless headphones, Lightning wire driven headphones, etc.) and that's not true. Removing the 3.5mm jack certainly does free up some space but it does not eliminate the onboard DAC & amp still needed to drive the internal speaker.

Part of my argument for not removing the 3.5mm jack, in addition to being a ubiquitous, reliable, and good quality standard, is that the iPhone will still require the internal DAC and amp. So I think Apple should keep the 3.5mm jack since the iPhone still has the internal components to drive the 3.5mm jack, especially if Apple is going to fill the 3.5mm space with a second speaker. And if Apple does fill the 3.5mm jack with a second speaker, I think most people would rather keep the 3.5mm jack than have a second speaker.
 
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Good question. I mention the internal DAC still being needed because many people have posted that removing the 3.5mm jack "shifts" the DAC to the listening device (e.g., wireless headphones, Lightning wire driven headphones, etc.) and that's not true. Removing the 3.5mm jack certainly does free up some space but it does not eliminate the onboard DAC & amp still needed to drive the internal speaker.

Part of my argument for not removing the 3.5mm jack, in addition to being a ubiquitous, reliable, and good quality standard, is that the iPhone will still require the internal DAC and amp. So I think Apple should keep the 3.5mm jack since the iPhone still has the internal components to drive the 3.5mm jack, especially if Apple is going to fill the 3.5mm space with a second speaker. And if Apple does fill the 3.5mm jack with a second speaker, I think most people would rather keep the 3.5mm jack than have a second speaker.


A second speaker is really useless. The speakers will be maybe 1 inch apart. No one will be able to get a stereo image from speakers so close together.
 
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I also agree with your logic. The part I don't like is that wireless or lightning based sound can occur today without removing the 3.5mm jack. The 3.5mm jack isn't standing in the way of anything. When Apple removes a technology, it is usually because that technology is no longer being used much by the majority. In this case, the majority still use the 3.5mm.

Well, think of it like this ... nobody on either PC or Mac was using USB when Apple dropped the ADB, Serial and SCSI ports from the Mac. Had Apple just added USB ports to the Mac, and left the legacy ports it would have taken much longer to push the industry to the new paradigm. As it was, the removal of those ports caused many people a lot of expense, and difficulty as USB devices were expensive and hard to get, without the variety of choice customers had come to expect, and most were buggy. Now granted the future benefits are much more obvious than they were at the time, but even so, an ADB or PS2 mouse just worked. There was no reason to remove it, especially on the iMac. But that move paved the way for better equipment on the PowerBooks that would have had to drop something else to accommodate those legacy ports. With Apple's move, I maintain until proven otherwise with the phone that Apple has to be dropping the 3.5mm jack to free up internal space for new features or improvements -- a direct relation to the adoption of USB on its mobile devices.

In terms of benefit, USB proved to be hands down better. The problem with 3.5mm is not one of whether it's a quality connector, but rather its utility for the overall device. 3.5mm does one thing -- it supplies an analogue signal, one that's been processed through a mid-powered headphone amp at that, making it less suitable for some types of connections. Lightning does many things, and supply audio output is one (albeit not analogue, though it's capable). And in doing so there will potentially be a quality increase depending on the external device connected -- Apple no longer provides an over-amped signal to a line-level device, or an under-amped signal to a set of headphones which require more power, via a compromised analogue output to accommodate whatever's plugged into it. It's now the responsibility of the external device to optimize it's own amp to meet it's own requirements. Another side benefit of this, is that the headphones will sound the same regardless of what source they're plugged into. In the end, the benefits are all going to be in the eyes of the beholder (or in this case ears), and whether they warrant replacing a universal standard for convenience. The same argument could be seen with the conversion from analogue TV to digital. I don't think there's a person on these forums who would argue that digital TV is a significant improvement over analogue TV. Yet, at the time, many people, perhaps the majority, found the loss of convenience, having to spend money on tuners, replace TVs and equipment, etc. wasn't worth what they perceived as modest improvements. They accused the government for being greedy in wanting to resell the analogue frequencies. Etc.

But in the end, it boils down to utility and moving people toward a wireless goal. Leaving the 3.5mm connector behind, not only utilizes valuable space in a limited mobile device, but it also holds back development of the wireless space, as people are always going to opt for the path of least resistance, and expense. As long as cheap 3.5mm equipment exists, that's what they're going to chose as long as the quality is good enough. Before the digital TV conversion, HD TVs were unaffordable for most, but less than a decade later, digital TVs cost much less than their CRT counterparts did, and most people own one, though not all even notice the quality, like my mom who always watches SD channels in stretch mode. We can only speculate what would have happened if the government had not just shut down analogue broadcasts, but rather left them both available side-by-side, and let the customer migrate over to digital at their own pace. But my guess is that we wouldn't be in the same place we are today if that had been allowed to happen, as many here suggest we do with the headphone jack, assuming it is even a choice Apple has.
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Good question. I mention the internal DAC still being needed because many people have posted that removing the 3.5mm jack "shifts" the DAC to the listening device (e.g., wireless headphones, Lightning wire driven headphones, etc.) and that's not true. Removing the 3.5mm jack certainly does free up some space but it does not eliminate the onboard DAC & amp still needed to drive the internal speaker.

Part of my argument for not removing the 3.5mm jack, in addition to being a ubiquitous, reliable, and good quality standard, is that the iPhone will still require the internal DAC and amp. So I think Apple should keep the 3.5mm jack since the iPhone still has the internal components to drive the 3.5mm jack, especially if Apple is going to fill the 3.5mm space with a second speaker. And if Apple does fill the 3.5mm jack with a second speaker, I think most people would rather keep the 3.5mm jack than have a second speaker.

A second speaker is really useless. The speakers will be maybe 1 inch apart. No one will be able to get a stereo image from speakers so close together.

I agree with you both about the second speaker. If they do that, it totally blows my operating theory about the why, and will seriously disappoint me that they chose to eliminate the headphone jack before it was really necessary. Though I contend that regardless, they must know how much the move will hurt them in the short term, if as rumor suggests, they are delivering such an uninspiring iPhone update this Fall, and therefore have some kind of plan in mind, like letting the stock drop enabling them to buy back a massive amount of shares before launching the next revolutionary model.
 
What exactly are you going to do with the new iPhone you cannot do with something else (even your current one, which will prpbably get the latest OS)? We're talking hardware here.

In my mind, you buy an iPhone without a headphone jack, you ARE (at least) a hardcore fanboy.

Own it.
Lol, er, sorry I'm not. I've owned iPhones for years and switching to another platform at this point would be a hassle (tho I admit other phones look wonderful). I think many people on and off this site would agree with that and that doesn't make them "hardcore fanboys". And no we aren't talking only hardware here, as much as you might like to constrict the conversation to that given your fixation on the lack of the 3.5mm Jack.

But software aside, what can I do on the new phone I can't on my 5s? 3D Touch is a big one. Apple Pay is another. Lasting a full day on a charge is important too. And I'm looking forward to a faster phone with a bigger screen. That's what I 'own'
 
I agree with you both about the second speaker. If they do that, it totally blows my operating theory about the why, and will seriously disappoint me that they chose to eliminate the headphone jack before it was really necessary. Though I contend that regardless, they must know how much the move will hurt them in the short term, if as rumor suggests, they are delivering such an uninspiring iPhone update this Fall, and therefore have some kind of plan in mind, like letting the stock drop enabling them to buy back a massive amount of shares before launching the next revolutionary model.

Appreciate the balanced response Mac128. The rumored 3.5mm jack removal has triggered a tsunami of passionate responses, look at this article alone with almost 900 posts.

If removed, let's see what Apple puts in place of the 3.5mm jack. Hopefully we won't loose this treasured standard for a second speaker ... to me that would be a horrible waste of valuable iPhone real estate.
 
So use bluetooth headsets. Problem solved. People are complaining for the sake of complaining, it's a non-sequitur.

As mentioned earlier:

"Now, to the two-fold question that launched this process. Verbatim, we said that "rumor has it that Apple will eliminate the headphone jack in favor of wireless or Lightning-connector headphones. If true, will this have any effect on your day-to-day use?" The majority, 723 users, said that the removal of the headphone jack would have no effect, with 189 saying it would have a detrimental effect on usage of the devices. The remaining 88 users had no opinion."

"Here's an interesting data point -- not all of the 189 who claimed that they would be negatively impacted thought that the removal would be a bad idea. Only 132 of the 189 thought that the removal would be bad for Apple and the phone. There's still no overwhelming majority in favor of the eradication of the headphone jack, though -- 412 of the full pool said that the removal was a good idea, leaving 466 with no opinion one way or another."
were they surveyed at apple HQ???
 
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Bad idea to remove the ubiquitous 3.5mm audio jack that works on laptops, desktops, automobiles, music players, mobile phones, even the in-seat audio connections on airlines.

Millions of people have spent good money on high quality headphones and earbuds that use the 3.5mm standard to be left out in the cold.

There have been almost a half dozen articles posted over the past few weeks that talk about the rumor of Apple removing the 3.5mm jack. If you look at those articles, the numbers of posts are astounding, more than most other articles, and the vast majority of reader responses are from people angry about the potential removal of the 3.5mm jack.

We are not talking about simply upgrading from floppy disks to CDs, from CDs to USB sticks, etc. I know people love to compare removing the 3.5mm jack to eliminating the floppy or CD drives. We are talking about the total elimination of one of the most reliable and useful audio standards that virtually all manufactures embrace.

Apple will take this proven and reliable open standard and give us their proprietary standard, and I'm confident no other equipment manufacture will ever embrace Lightning (No I'm not talking about headset manufactures, I'm talking about other desktop, laptop, tablet, phone, automobile, and aircraft manufactures).

So Apple does not move us forward, they lock us into a standard they control/own and move us away from the mainstream into a segregated solution that is not even available on their own computer line ... which uses the 3.5mm audio jack.

I think Apple's cult like mantra of making their phones thinner and thinner will go too far with the elimination of the 3.5mm jack.
[doublepost=1472019047][/doublepost]The upside is that the lightening jack sounds better. That's been proven in the hi-end audio industry to be a fact. Not being able to listen and charge at the same time... That hurts. And I think Apple will include a lightning to headphone jack adapter in the box which pretty much renders all arguments other than not being able to charge the phone while listening, moot.
 
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The upside is that the lightening jack sounds better. That's been proven in the hi-end audio industry to be a fact. Not being able to listen and charge at the same time... That hurts. And I think Apple will include a lightning to headphone jack adapter in the box which pretty much renders all arguments other than not being able to charge the phone while listening, moot.

Lightning in of itself doesn't sound better, but the headphones and equipment you use with the connection does have the potential to supply higher quality audio along with other benefits.

But I don't know where you get the idea you won't be able to charge and listen at the same time. While that may be true on some cheap drugstore Lightning headphones, there will almost certainly be a solution to this in the box -- the simplest among them is a new charger cable with a pass through plug -- insert Lightning charging cable, Lightning insert headphone plug. And there are many other ways this is easily solved.

And no, there won't be an adapter in the box. If a customer wants to keep using their own old headphones, they'll need to actively make the decision to do it.
 
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