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Fun 2nd car with stick?

codymac said:
Trouble is we didn't (really) get the S1 in the States (I'm assuming he's in the States since he said "$" and wasn't specific). Shame... I'd kill for an S1 Exige or one of the pre-Exige S1 Elise Sports.

S2000
Miata (1st or 2nd gen)
WRX/STi
Evo

Check insurance first, of course.
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The U.S. got about 50 Elise Sports. One of my track friends (and a driving instructor) has one. I've never seen anyone keep up with him at track weekends. I would still add a Cooper S to the list. Easy to acquire in the OP's budget, very quick, excellent handling, very forgiving, and a blast to drive.

Sadly, our home track (Gateway International Raceway, Madison, IL) just shuttered its doors last week. Between that, and my insurance company writing in a clause to exclude HPDEs, my track days may be done for a while.
 
-Ryan- said:
Ah, I didn't realise that. It really is a shame, as the S1 is a beautiful car. My neighbour has one he's had from new, and it's absolutely immaculate, and I know it's well cared for. I'd take it off his hands if he'd sell! :)
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It really is. My ~900kg S2 is a pig compared to some of the guys I know in the UK who have their S1s down to 600-700kg in race trim. Nevermind that the S1 is so pretty to look at too!

RaceTripper said:
The U.S. got about 50 Elise Sports. One of my track friends (and a driving instructor) has one. I've never seen anyone keep up with him at track weekends. I would still add a Cooper S to the list. Easy to acquire in the OP's budget, very quick, excellent handling, very forgiving, and a blast to drive.

Sadly, our home track (Gateway International Raceway, Madison, IL) just shuttered its doors last week. Between that, and my insurance company writing in a clause to exclude HPDEs, my track days may be done for a while.
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We got something like 39 Elise Sports officially. Several other road cars made it over under questionable circumstances and still several more were brought in under the race exemption. None were brought in for legal road use although a handful made it to the streets - and a handful of those that did were very quickly shipped off our soil to avoid the subsequent penalties.

If you could get an S1 with the Exige-style body here for $17k, there would be one in my garage. Cheapest I've seen them here is mid-30's. Note, I'm talking about the Sport Elise or the Exige, not the Elise Sport.

Apparently two of your track friends drive a Lotus.
;)

Sorry to hear about your home track. That's a really tough blow.

I'll amend my list with a used 350Z and recommend avoiding Boxsters in that price range due to repair costs.
 
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Thanks for the insurance tips. I managed to get reasonable quotes from some reputable companies that are 40% lower than my current insurer.

Some of the suggestions are good, but I already have a daily driver sedan and don't need to compromise. Why not do something really different?

It's now between the Honda S2000 or a BMW Z4, both 2005 or 06. The BMW is more exciting than the Honda, but the Honda will be more reliable. The BMW depreciation is higher, which is an advantage when buying used.
 
senseless said:
Thanks for the insurance tips. I managed to get reasonable quotes from some reputable companies that are 40% lower than my current insurer.

Some of the suggestions are good, but I already have a daily driver sedan and don't need to compromise. Why not do something really different?

It's now between the Honda S2000 or a BMW Z4, both 2005 or 06. The BMW is more exciting than the Honda, but the Honda will be more reliable. The BMW depreciation is higher, which is an advantage when buying used.
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Those Z4s are sweet.. My Mom has an 07. If you're fine with repair costs, yearly servicing, and very expensive tires, then go for it.
 
Abyssgh0st said:
Those Z4s are sweet.. My Mom has an 07. If you're fine with repair costs, yearly servicing, and very expensive tires, then go for it.
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Z4s come with 4 yrs. free maintenance and 50K warranty. You mom shouldn't have had any service costs yet, unless it was bought new in fall '06 or it has > 50K miles.

The tire aren't any more expensive than they would be for any other sports car with the same size wheels. There is nothing special about tires for BMWs.
 
RaceTripper said:
The tire aren't any more expensive than they would be for any other sports car with the same size wheels. There is nothing special about tires for BMWs.
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Z4s don't ride on the extra-heavy ride quality destroying runflats? I thought they did (could be wrong though).
 
robbieduncan said:
Z4s don't ride on the extra-heavy ride quality destroying runflats? I thought they did (could be wrong though).
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Yeah, forgot about run-flats. They probably do. I think most/all BMWs do nowadays.

My MINI JCW came with run flats. The first thing I did was sell them, and get some proper tires (Yoko Advan Neovas) and a puncture kit. I hate run-flats. They are expensive, and have a harsh ride.
 
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For something sub 17k and later model imo Subaru is about as good as it gets. AWD makes all the difference.

If the wrx is too boy ricer then have a look at the 05-09 Legacy. All the fun of a wrx, but much more grown up looking (and feeling). Some suspension upgrades and you can throw 'em around nicely. Downpipe (and uppipe if '05) and a tune will put you at about 250awhp. bigger turbo, bigger i/c, new injectors and fuel pump will easily allow for 300-330awhp

Insurance premiums are low on a legacy too.
 
I drove a 2004 BMW Z4 2.5 and really liked it. It was lots of fun and easy to drive. The convertible changes the driving experience completely and was not the wind tunnel I was hesitant about. Too bad winter is coming, but prices are low right now.
 
If you get a Z4, get the refreshed '06 models--the '05 and olders just look like dated ass in comparison now. '06 still looks hot with the much better tails.
 
RaceTripper said:
Yeah, forgot about run-flats. They probably do. I think most/all BMWs do nowadays.

My MINI JCW came with run flats. The first thing I did was sell them, and get some proper tires (Yoko Advan Neovas) and a puncture kit. I hate run-flats. They are expensive, and have a harsh ride.
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I had a leased 535d M Sport on run flats a few years back, the right quality is more fidgety, but they provided more feedback and the stiffer side walls provided immense turn-in feel, proper pointy they were, so not all bad. :D
 
iGav said:
I had a leased 535d M Sport on run flats a few years back, the right quality is more fidgety, but they provided more feedback and the stiffer side walls provided immense turn-in feel, proper pointy they were, so not all bad. :D
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That's certainly not my experience with run-flats. The ones that came on my JCW (high performance summer Dunlops) were harsh, noisy, and unpredictable. I replaced them with Yoko Advan Neovas, and it was transformed into the performance car it should be.
 
RaceTripper said:
That's certainly not my experience with run-flats. The ones that came on my JCW (high performance summer Dunlops) were harsh, noisy, and unpredictable.
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I can well imagine that run-flats aren't particularly suited to FWD cars, because of the nature of the layout. I think mine were Michelin's, not as good as a performance cup tyre, or a semi-slick granted, but I found them to be preferable to all-year sports tyres.
 
iGav said:
I can well imagine that run-flats aren't particularly suited to FWD cars, because of the nature of the layout. I think mine were Michelin's, not as good as a performance cup tyre, or a semi-slick granted, but I found them to be preferable to all-year sports tyres.
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I've driven a BMW 3-series with run-flats and had the same negative experience.

With my cars, I typically maintain two sets of wheels, one with summer tires, the other with winter tires. I use run-flats for neither. If I go on an extended road trip, I put one of my spare wheel in the car. For every day use I carry a puncture kit.
 
RaceTripper said:
I've driven a BMW 3-series with run-flats and had the same negative experience.
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You're not alone, a lot of people have said similar. I think they just take some getting used to, they'll feel unpredictable because they're stiffer and they don't loose grip as progressively as conventional tyres, but that's what makes them pointy.

RaceTripper said:
With my cars, I typically maintain two sets of wheels, one with summer tires, the other with winter tires.
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I'm not sure if we really have the climate to necessitate 2 separate sets of tyres, a good soft all-seasonal will do the trick for most cars here. But I'll drive anything, I could have fun in a 2CV with 2 inch wide Korean rubber. I'm really not that fussy. :)
 
iGav said:
I'm not sure if we really have the climate to necessitate 2 separate sets of tyres, a good soft all-seasonal will do the trick for most cars here. But I'll drive anything, I could have fun in a 2CV with 2 inch wide Korean rubber. I'm really not that fussy. :)
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I've always kind-of wanted to do the 24h 2CV race. It looks great fun!
 
adk said:
S2000. More fun than the Miata and less girly.
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And evil handling, but thats easily remedied.

As for the Z4, the ride is just appaling. The roads around here are very bad quality so that didn't help either when I tried one.
 
adk said:
S2000. More fun than the Miata and less girly.
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The only person I know that owns an S2000 is a girl, and I don't know any girls that own (and have never seen a girl driving) a Miata. Cars are not "girly" or "manly". They are inanimate objects.
 
iGav said:
You're not alone, a lot of people have said similar. I think they just take some getting used to, they'll feel unpredictable because they're stiffer and they don't loose grip as progressively as conventional tyres, but that's what makes them pointy.
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I disagree it's a matter of getting used to them. From a performance standpoint they are a compromise, just like all-seasons are a compromise. But I would track an all-seasn non-flat before I'd track a car on performance run-flats.
 
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