Future ARM Mac owners who rely on Bootcamp/Intel VMs and kexts etc - what are you going to do?

[evilzardoz]

Hi all,

This ARM announcement has been a bit of a shock to the system. I hope to continue buying Intel Macs until they stop making them, so I've got a bit of time to figure this out - I hope.

I run bootcamp. I run Intel-based VMs. These are VMware virtual appliances, these are legacy apps running on older Windows versions, these are games which get bootcamped, specialised hardware with kexts that are no longer developed by the vendor etc (so there won't be ARM support).

There are some very attractive things we might see on the ARM portables. Video and photo editing is something I do all the time (Lightroom, Final Cut Pro X) so I would welcome performance boosts there. And something that doesn't thermal throttle would be nice, too.

Who else is in the same boat and what are you going to do? Switch back to Windows? Carry two laptops and a USB stick to transfer files between them? Host a server and connect to that via tethering?

 

[MikhailT]

I need Windows VM/bootcamp but honestly, I'm still going to buy an Apple Silicon Mac as a personal device to replace both my old rMBP and iPad Pro. I'll keep my desktop PC for now for games and other software such as VM. I can connect to the VM remotely via RDP if I need immediate access on my laptop.

I don't travel, so my opinion is of someone who works only on a desktop PC in one place.

 

[chabig]

I will wait until the machines with Apple silicon ship, and see what options become available from third parties. There might be a solution for running Windows. We don't yet know.

If I needed Windows for some reason, I'd just buy a cheap Windows PC as a secondary computer. I would never choose to switch to Windows. If traveling with two operating systems was a necessity, I'd look to run Windows at home and remotely operate it from my Mac portable with VNC.

 

[Boyd01]

About three weeks ago I got a new i7/64gb/2tb Mini to replace two old Macs and a Windows PC. Really happy about how this is working out, am using Parallels with Windows 10, MacOS Sierra and MacOS Mountain Lion virtual machines. This has given my very expensive legacy software a new life, and it all runs much faster than it ever did on the old computers.

I'm retired and don't travel much, just don't need a laptop anymore. It's great to have everything on one computer now, where I can copy/paste between programs on different VM's, back everything up at once, etc. So, I'm likely to stick with Intel Macs as long as possible. Will just wait and watch how things go with ARM, there just isn't any compelling reason for me to switch anytime soon. In the past I've worked at lot with audio, video, CAD and 3d so ARM could certainly offer something there. Don't do so much of that anymore though and probably couldn't afford new software for this anyway. ?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think a Venn diagram answer would be

But, I guess it would depend on what RELY means. I doubt there will be many folks that RELY on Intel anything that will be future ARM Mac owners. They’ll just keep, you know, the machine that they own sitting in front of them that does ALL the things they want to do.

 

[RoundaboutRider]

I will get the ARM MacBook Pro 13 but to compensate for the loss of Boot Camp and Windows 10 in a VM I’m sacrificing the iPad Pro in favour of a Surface Pro. I figure I can just run iPad apps on the Mac. I tend to only use the iPad for note taking so the Sirface and MS Office’s Windows Ink is probably a lot better for my needs.

The next Tiger Lake CPU could boost performance for light gaming on the Surface compared to Boot Camp on my 2020 MBP 13.

 

[glenthompson]

I got tired of dealing with Parallels upgrades and such so just bought a cheap laptop off Woot to use for the couple of standalone Windows applications we need. Being retired but traveling a lot in our motorhome, portability is important but I get to choose what applications I want to run. Currently testing a program to eliminate the last Windows app I use. My wife is stuck with a couple she hasn’t found Mac replacements for.

 

[TrevorR90]

I think that there will be solutions by the time Big Sur comes around or shortly after its fully released. Just depends on if there's a demand for it.

 

[TiggrToo]

This ARM announcement has been a bit of a shock to the system

Unsure why, it’s been a badly kept secret for quite some time now. For the last year or so it’s not been a question of if, but when.

 

[JMacHack]

Unsure why, it’s been a badly kept secret for quite some time now. For the last year or so it’s not been a question of if, but when.

I think it was only a shock to those who didn't want to believe it was happening in the first place.

 

[thisismyusername]

This ARM announcement has been a bit of a shock to the system.

It really shouldn't have been. It's been obvious since Apple first started developing their own chips that one day they would transition Macs over as well and that would have meant no more bootcamp and no more x86-based VMs. It's been especially obvious over the past few years that this was going to happen soon.

As for what I'll do, I'll switch to using ARM-based Linux VMs. Thankfully, I have no need for Windows apps but I'd get my employer to give me a Windows laptop if I did (or just completely switch to Windows if that much of my job required it).

 

[jerryk]

I got tired of dealing with Parallels upgrades and such so just bought a cheap laptop off Woot to use for the couple of standalone Windows applications we need. Being retired but traveling a lot in our motorhome, portability is important but I get to choose what applications I want to run. Currently testing a program to eliminate the last Windows app I use. My wife is stuck with a couple she hasn’t found Mac replacements for.

Don't forget to consider web based replacements for those applications. The number of people building Windows or Mac application is going down and down, while the number apps on the web increasing. Get a little wifi hotspot (or use your phone as a hotspot) and you can use the web even in fairly remote locations.

 

[Tech198]

Hi all,

This ARM announcement has been a bit of a shock to the system. I hope to continue buying Intel Macs until they stop making them, so I've got a bit of time to figure this out - I hope.

I run bootcamp. I run Intel-based VMs. These are VMware virtual appliances, these are legacy apps running on older Windows versions, these are games which get bootcamped, specialised hardware with kexts that are no longer developed by the vendor etc (so there won't be ARM support).

There are some very attractive things we might see on the ARM portables. Video and photo editing is something I do all the time (Lightroom, Final Cut Pro X) so I would welcome performance boosts there. And something that doesn't thermal throttle would be nice, too.

Who else is in the same boat and what are you going to do? Switch back to Windows? Carry two laptops and a USB stick to transfer files between them? Host a server and connect to that via tethering?

Switch ? No way... Everyone can make their own choices........ I'll just keep my MBA longer,, and when it goes belly up, and Apple has run out on Intel ones on he reurb. store, then they'll loose me as a customer.. Instead i'll get intel macs off eBay..

Intel would really like that if Apple forced people to go to Windows...

Don't forget to consider web based replacements for those applications. The number of people building Windows or Mac application is going down and down, while the number apps on the web increasing. Get a little wifi hotspot (or use your phone as a hotspot) and you can use the web even in fairly remote locations.

While that's better than installing an app, there will be some tings you just need Windows for.... I don't beleive WebGL is that powerful yet... You'd still hit a road block as you'd need a processor that uses Intel VT to run virtualization. ARM doesn't have this, unless Apple develop their own.

 

[JMacHack]

Don't forget to consider web based replacements for those applications. The number of people building Windows or Mac application is going down and down, while the number apps on the web increasing. Get a little wifi hotspot (or use your phone as a hotspot) and you can use the web even in fairly remote locations.

Running Javascript for resource intensive programs sounds like a punishment straight from Dante's Inferno. Even "lightweight" chat programs (looking at you, Discord) run like ass.

 

[jerryk]

Running Javascript for resource intensive programs sounds like a punishment straight from Dante's Inferno. Even "lightweight" chat programs (looking at you, Discord) run like ass.

Poor coding sucks no matter what environment you run in. No idea if that is the case with Discord, but most of the time poor performance can be fixed on web (and other platform) apps.

Google office suite (docs, slides, sheets, mail, etc) seems to run well, at least on chrome. I still use office 365 locally for comparability and deeper features, but for many tasks I use GSuite stuff.

 

[burgerrecords]

Running Javascript for resource intensive programs sounds like a punishment straight from Dante's Inferno. Even "lightweight" chat programs (looking at you, Discord) run like ass.

For my company, whatever theoretical inefficiencies are created by JavaScript are far offset by not having to have an IT infrastructure for those applications and the related databases - and in fact far exceeds the performance and security of any alternative arrangement we would have during WFH.

There’s also a giant salesforce tower in the area here to indicate to me we may not be the only folks who feel that way about rendering via browser as a lesser evil.

 

[Arctic Moose]

Intel Macs will be available for years. I’d be surprised if you can’t buy a decent Intel Mac used a decade from now.

I will definitely get an Apple Silicon Mac as soon as there’s a spec I want, for Intel stuff I’ll just keep some other PC around. No biggie.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Honestly I have been moving more onto the cloud more and more...

As much as I would like to keep the VMs going in the background I think I'll limit myself with a Ubuntu VM on Apple silicon and work via terminal pretty much.

 

[stratokaster]

I switched from Windows to Mac even before the Intel transition — since you couldn't really run Windows applications on PPC Macs (with decent speed) I kept an old ThinkPad that was issued by my employer and used it to run Windows apps...

When Apple switched to Intel, I returned the ThinkPad to my employer and ran everything in a VM for a while, afterwards I found native Mac alternatives for everything I needed at the time.

Right now I don't need any Windows apps for my personal use, and my current employer's information security policy doesn't allow me to use a personal device for work purposes anyway, so I am happy to use my Macs for my personal stuff and a work-issued Windows laptop for work.

 

[LonestarOne]

I have one or two Windows applications I care about. I suspect Parallels will be updated to work on Apple Silicon in the not-too-distant future. If it isn’t, no big deal. I’ll probably hang onto my 5K iMac for a few years anyway. It’s not like having two computers is a big burden.

 

[Richdmoore]

I could mostly get buy with a cheap laptop or better yet nuc or pc stick computer for most of my windows needs. Unfortunately I have been looking at home flight simulators, Especially Microsoft’s upcoming flight sim 2020, they require a good desktop expandable pc.

I am an Apple guy, so I don’t know what I will do yet, either get two expensive computers, an expensive pc and lower end arm Mac mini for everything else, or possibly some kind or cloud solution for the pc.

I have some time to figure it out, if my 2017 iMac can bootcamp the flight sim, I will have to see real world performance once the sim is released (and I need a bigger Ssd drive just to meet the install requirements, so I need to sort that out as well.)

 

[DearthnVader]

There really isn't a one size fits all solution, I no longer use any software that requires Windows or even x86.

Given that Apple has long been the #1 manufacture and seller of laptops, I think software houses will be compelled to port their products to Apple SoC and the macOS.

 

[questionwonder]

Hi all,

This ARM announcement has been a bit of a shock to the system. I hope to continue buying Intel Macs until they stop making them, so I've got a bit of time to figure this out - I hope.

I run bootcamp. I run Intel-based VMs. These are VMware virtual appliances, these are legacy apps running on older Windows versions, these are games which get bootcamped, specialised hardware with kexts that are no longer developed by the vendor etc (so there won't be ARM support).

There are some very attractive things we might see on the ARM portables. Video and photo editing is something I do all the time (Lightroom, Final Cut Pro X) so I would welcome performance boosts there. And something that doesn't thermal throttle would be nice, too.

Who else is in the same boat and what are you going to do? Switch back to Windows? Carry two laptops and a USB stick to transfer files between them? Host a server and connect to that via tethering?

I'm going to whip up a Win VM in Azure ($10-50/month) and remote into it. Just like I do now!
I stopped running VM's on my personal machine years ago.

 

[mrcloaked]

My games are gone.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Hi all,

This ARM announcement has been a bit of a shock to the system. I hope to continue buying Intel Macs until they stop making them, so I've got a bit of time to figure this out - I hope.

I run bootcamp. I run Intel-based VMs. These are VMware virtual appliances, these are legacy apps running on older Windows versions, these are games which get bootcamped, specialised hardware with kexts that are no longer developed by the vendor etc (so there won't be ARM support).

There are some very attractive things we might see on the ARM portables. Video and photo editing is something I do all the time (Lightroom, Final Cut Pro X) so I would welcome performance boosts there. And something that doesn't thermal throttle would be nice, too.

Who else is in the same boat and what are you going to do? Switch back to Windows? Carry two laptops and a USB stick to transfer files between them? Host a server and connect to that via tethering?

That's a good question.

I'm actually going to likely buy an Intel-based 2020 4-port 13" MacBook Pro with 32GB of RAM and at least 2TB of storage and use that for virtualization. I have tons of recent enough PCs so Boot Camp isn't totally necessary. My main virtualization needs will be for Intel based releases of macOS/OS X/Mac OS X anyway. However, when Apple kicks that machine to the curb (in terms of patch support for macOS), I can just wipe the Mac entirely, use whatever latest Boot Camp drivers available to me and turn it into a capable Windows 10 PC where it will continue to run for many years past that point.

As far me and Apple Silicon Macs are concerned? I do IT by trade and much of my resume entails Mac training as well as Windows training. I'll probably buy whatever the closest thing to a 13" 4-port MacBook Pro is available with Apple Silicon (be it a 13" MacBook Pro, a 14" MacBook Pro or whatever) two to three years after that machine has made the jump. And solely for the purpose of staying current with the platform. There's nothing that I do with a computer that HAS to be done on a Mac, let alone one not running on x86-64. I suppose I might take Final Cut Pro lessons for fun some day. But that's about the only thing I can think of that would HAVE to be done on a Mac and couldn't be better done on a Windows PC.