Future of AppleTV

[jwolf6589]

I read a discouraging article from MacWorld that painted the AppleTV in a negative way. I think the writer of the article made some assumptions that everyone had a smart TV which is not true and besides even those that do some still prefer to use the appleTV with their smart TV (like my parents) and I have a dumb TV and use the appleTV. I doubt I ever will have a smart TV because I prefer the appleTV which I use almost daily. Its an excellent device I just look forward to an upgrade with a faster processor of which I may buy even though I don't game. I don't know what the issue is with the remote as my remote works fine so perhaps many have defective remotes.

So tell me is there some truth to Macworlds article? Does the AppleTV have a future?

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

As far as I'm concerned there will be. Stand alone devices in my experience performs better than the integrated SMART TV stuff. I've owned Samsung and Sony TV, And I almost never use the built in Streaming apps more than a few times. Didn't care for it. I much prefer the stand alone devices. Even my Samsung Bluray Player has Apps and I don't care for those either. I use it strictly to play 4K/Blurays. For me the Apple TV and or My PC do a great job as far as function and navigation. But Hulu for some reason on PC looks horrible. So I use Apple TV for Hulu. All other STreaming services between PC/Apple TV look similar enough and my receiver does the Audio Processing.

 

[Darth.Titan]

Don't think that you'll never have a "smart" TV. You'd be hard pressed to find a TV without built in apps now. I've tried to find a "dumb" tv but they just don't exist anymore.

However the AppleTV is still a superior experience. Faster load times and smoother performance than any smart TV's built in apps. Smart TV's just don't have the processor power an AppleTV has.

 

[HDFan]

Does the AppleTV have a future?

Absolutely. I read the article. It has some points. I've had other streaming devices which I have found to be inferior. We'll have to see what happens with Games.

Television vendors are interested in TV sales. As such:

1. They are reluctant to update older TVs with newer software as that doesn't increase sales
2. Their expertise is in Television, not software. As such their software is likely to be inferior to that offered by a software company.
3. It is comparatively inexpensive to replace an Apple TV to support features which require hardware changes.

LG has been dragging their feet on updating their 2018 models. They did add the Apple TV app. Within a couple of days the said they weren't adding airplay 2, then they were. It has been like a year waiting for this to happen.

Depending upon your TV some features may not be available. Unless your TV has eArc you are unable to get high res sound. [The Apple TV doesn't support lossless formats, but does support high resolution audio].

The LG Apple TV app is inferior to that on the Apple TV. Can't see video information before watching. You select it and it immediately starts playing. I haven't been able to figure out how to control it with my Harmony remote. If I want to go from watching a video to my library list I have to hit exit which takes me back to the LG menu. I then have to reselect the Apple TV app.

Apple TV also as a lot of apps which aren't available on my LG. I use network (not internet) bandwidth testing apps to diagnose network problems which are not available on the LG. It integrates with the Apple ecosystem, and so on.

 

[Realityck]

Don't think that you'll never have a "smart" TV. You'd be hard pressed to find a TV without built in apps now. I've tried to find a "dumb" tv but they just don't exist anymore.

However the AppleTV is still a superior experience. Faster load times and smoother performance than any smart TV's built in apps. Smart TV's just don't have the processor power an AppleTV has.

Anytime I see articles written on a similar note, I think of how people drop thousands on a good TV display, yet get stuck with not the best streaming app collection. The apple TV 4K is just a superior upgradable OS environment compared to WebOS, Tizen, and Android OS's used on TV's. The only thing missing is Google to supply 4K or better YouTube otherwise you have all the major streaming providers with better App GUI's then what's offer on most TV's.

 

[Juicy Box]

I read a discouraging article from MacWorld

Do you have the link?

So tell me is there some truth to Macworlds article?

Since there isn't a link, it is hard to give a good answer, but just based off of what you said about the article, I would say that there is some truth to the Macworld article.

The truth is that many people much rather press a button on their TV remote to access the common streaming apps such as Netflix, and HBO, than have a separate box, with HDMI inputs, separate remote, to ultimately get the same experience regardless of streaming device.

If people do not have a Smart TV, or doesn't like it UI on it, they have a bunch of TV streaming devices out there to choose from that will all give them a similar experience once they start using the common apps. Almost all of them are cheaper than the ATV4K.

Actually, a large family with four TVs can get their whole house 4K Netflix with Amazon Firesticks for the price of one ATV4K.

So, the ATV has to compete with Smart TVs with apps built in, and then a bunch of streaming devices cost are a fraction of the price, all for a similar experience.

There are other factors as well.

Love it or hate it, the Siri Remote has not been Apple's favorite product.
I have been using it everyday for five years, and I still accidentally press stuff and pick it up the wrong way. Apple wanted a similar iOS experience with the Touch Pad, but I think they should have just gone with a D-Pad.


Another big factor, is Apple's marketing.
Most people I know have not idea what the Apple TV 4K is. Many think it is an actual television. Just look at the ATV threads on this forum and see how often people confuse Apple TV, Apple TV+, and Apple's TV app.

How many threads have you seen where people buy a Smart TV that advertises it comes with Apple's TV app, and they are wondering how to turn on the built-in Apple TV?


The biggest factor, Apple doesn't care about the ATV.
Back in 2014, the rumors for the new ATV were very different than what was delivered. The thing is, Apple could make the ATV even better than the rumors, but I don't think they care about it very much.

According to John Gruber, Apple sells the Apple TV almost at cost. For people that don't want to believe this, the Apple TV 4K is basically a 2017 iPad Pro without the display. There are some other minor HW difference, but the prices of these two devices is huge @ $200 and $800 for the 64GB version of each, respectively.

Apple isn't making their usual 40% profit margin with the ATV4K. I think this is a big reason why they don't care about it as much.

tvOS has barely been updated in the past 5 years. The updates that we did get were basically things that should have been shipped with the ATV4 in 2015.

tvOS 13 has been buggy and a bunch of apps have problems since the update, or they just stopped working.

Apple TV app is now available on non-ATV devices. Apple is bypassing their own HW to sell their services. They used to have SW, OS, and services to sell their HW, but that is no longer the case, at least with the ATV. There are a few exceptions with this, such with iTunes on Windows, but I think a big difference is that back then, hardly anyone used an Apple device of any kind, so this kind of made sense.

If you want to know how Apple feels about the Apple TV 4K, look at their webpage for TV related products, you have to scroll halfway down the entire page before the ATV4K gets mentioned:

TV & Home

Simply connect Apple TV, HomePod mini, and other accessories to experience a smart home that runs flawlessly across your devices.

www.apple.com

Does the AppleTV have a future?

I have been a long time ATV fan, and I am sure a large % of the posts I make on the MR forums are ATV related.

But, I am unsure if the ATV has a future.

IMO, the ATV4K is the best streaming box on the market. It has the best and cleanest UI. The 4k version is very fast, smooth, and stable. I have a mix of streaming devices for my large family, and I hate using anything but my ATVs. But, once in the apps, there isn't really a whole lot of differences between all the devices. Actually, some of my Smart TV's built in apps look better than the tvOS versions.


Apple still treats it like a hobby, gimping it with silly rules that made little sense, especially at the launch of tvOS. They barely update it, and gives it a tiny amount of time at the Keynotes. At the WWDC, Apple spent 1 minute and 40 seconds on the Apple TV 4, and just a tiny amount of that time was actually spent on new stuff. Just to compare, Apple spent more time on hand washing with the Apple Watch than it did on tvOS improvements.

The ATV and tvOS could be so much more.

Hopefully I am wrong about it, and Apple has something special "in the pipeline" for the ATV, but right now, it is just an overpowered, but overpriced streaming box.

 

[waw74]

Don't forget about the streamlined development pipeline for appleTV, iPhone, iPad, and Mac.

Especially with the newer apple silicon Macs coming, once you make an app for one of the 4 devices, you're more than 90% of the way to having an app on the other 3.

or you can make 10 different apps for the different TV manufacturers. which might be able to share a bit of code, but not much.

Where do you think app developers are going to focus?
The aTV apps will almost always be ahead of the other versions.

Except for amazon, but their apps just suck in general.
been re-watching the boys in anticipation of Season 2. Two of the episodes wouldn't load in HDR on the aTV, the other 8 were fine. I tried reboots, and deleting the app didn't help, but came in just fine on my TV's app.

 

[Packers1958]

Built in apps on the tv should be first choice. No HDMI connection. One less issue to deal with.

 

[Rigby]

Built in apps on the tv should be first choice. No HDMI connection. One less issue to deal with.

Disagree. The TV manufacturers usually stop updating their apps after one or two years, and have a very spotty track record when it comes to privacy and security. I never had a problem with any HDMI connection.

 

[Juicy Box]

Built in apps on the tv should be first choice. No HDMI connection. One less issue to deal with.

Disagree. The TV manufacturers usually stop updating their apps after one or two years, and have a very spotty track record when it comes to privacy and security. I never had a problem with any HDMI connection.

I disagree with you both.

Built in apps on the tv should be first choice.

The built in apps on the Smart TV would, not should, be the first choice.

I think that most people generally value convenience, and having additional devices connected to their TVs not only cost more, but just adds apps that their TV can already do.

There are a bunch of reasons why using the Smart TV apps is something you shouldn't do.

The TV manufacturers usually stop updating their apps after one or two years, and have a very spotty track record when it comes to privacy and security.

While I agree with your statement, the average Joe doesn't think like this. If an app stops getting updates, that doesn't necessarily mean that it instantly stops working.

My parents have a Blu Ray player that stopped getting Netflix updates maybe around 2013. It still works fine, but stuck with old UI and doesn't have new features like profiles.

If privacy was a big issue, then Amazon FireTV wouldn't outsell the ATV.

I shouldn't have said that I disagree with you, because I don't, I just think there are more appealing reasons to use something other than the built in apps than just stuff like updates and privacy.

 

[TheIntruder]

But, I am unsure if the ATV has a future.

IMO, the ATV4K is the best streaming box on the market. It has the best and cleanest UI. The 4k version is very fast, smooth, and stable. I have a mix of streaming devices for my large family, and I hate using anything but my ATVs. But, once in the apps, there isn't really a whole lot of differences between all the devices. Actually, some of my Smart TV's built in apps look better than the tvOS versions.

Apple still treats it like a hobby, gimping it with silly rules that made little sense, especially at the launch of tvOS. They barely update it, and gives it a tiny amount of time at the Keynotes. At the WWDC, Apple spent 1 minute and 40 seconds on the Apple TV 4, and just a tiny amount of that time was actually spent on new stuff. Just to compare, Apple spent more time on hand washing with the Apple Watch than it did on tvOS improvements.

The ATV and tvOS could be so much more.

Hopefully I am wrong about it, and Apple has something special "in the pipeline" for the ATV, but right now, it is just an overpowered, but overpriced streaming box.

I think it's fair to question the ATV's future, but one also has to keep in mind that the push to get the ATV+ app built into TV sets is to help broaden the reach of the service, and not necessarily a death knell for the ATV itself.

If there's one lesson Apple has learned, it that it cannot put the fate of its products entirely into other companies' hands, and killing the ATV would do just that.

That said, it doesn't get the attention that it might deserve, and for that I fault Apple's blind spot -- the lack of an overall home strategy, and the lack of vision to create, and exploit its strengths in that sphere.

What it does have it a few home-oreinted products that share certain features, like Siri, and might be OK in isolation, but ironically, lack the integration that make them work better together as a whole, something the company can be good at when it tries.

HomeKit and Siri were advanced, and neat pieces of technology when they appeared, but have lagged since.

HomePod has been reputed to be more of a good-sounding speaker project that had smart features grafted onto it later in development.

HK was made too hard to implement, and Apple's mistake was to not produce its own reference products employing the technology, to serve as benchmarks and provide some critical mass for the HK platform.

If I wanted privacy-oriented cameras, doorbell, or a security system, why do I have to look so hard to find them from other companies, and discover that most are unlikely to work with HK, and offered by data-miners like Google and Amazon? Who doesn't think there is a market for capable, good quality products like that, from the company I've already put my trust, and money into, with my main computing devices?

The pieces of the puzzle are there, but nobody at Apple sees, or cares to put them together. Apple could have owned, the home space as well, or at least provided a credible competitor to Alexa/Google, but has failed to do so.

Imagine what a supercharged ATV could do -- provide entertainment, camera feeds, security status, a proxy for device notifications from your other Apple products, and so on. A HomeBase, so to speak, that allows you to keep your iDevices and Mac in another room, but still maintain access to the portal of your iLife, tied into iCloud and other Apple services. Apple has the talent to produce such a thing, but apparently lacks the initiative, or vision, to do so.

 

[Juicy Box]

Imagine what a supercharged ATV could do

I completely agree, and is what I was saying this this statement:

The ATV and tvOS could be so much more.

The thing is, the ATV4K is already supercharged, at least its HW. It could do many of the things you mention with the current hardware.

If Apple gave it more attention, it could be a must have device, but the way it is right now, it is just an overpriced streamer box.

I think it's fair to question the ATV's future, but one also has to keep in mind that the push to get the ATV+ app built into TV sets is to help broaden the reach of the service, and not necessarily a death knell for the ATV itself.

I get it, and if ATV+ and the TV app being available on non-Apple TV devices was the only evidence, I wouldn't have even made a post in the thread.

But that fact is just one of many nails in the ATV coffin. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[Packers1958]

I disagree with you both.



The built in apps on the Smart TV would, not should, be the first choice.

I think that most people generally value convenience, and having additional devices connected to their TVs not only cost more, but just adds apps that their TV can already do.

There are a bunch of reasons why using the Smart TV apps is something you shouldn't do.


While I agree with your statement, the average Joe doesn't think like this. If an app stops getting updates, that doesn't necessarily mean that it instantly stops working.

My parents have a Blu Ray player that stopped getting Netflix updates maybe around 2013. It still works fine, but stuck with old UI and doesn't have new features like profiles.

If privacy was a big issue, then Amazon FireTV wouldn't outsell the ATV.

I shouldn't have said that I disagree with you, because I don't, I just think there are more appealing reasons to use something other than the built in apps than just stuff like updates and privacy.

I disagree. Built in apps generally produce a better picture. The ATV4K has it's raised black issue with DV with all apps that send DV especially with LG OLED tv's. Whereas with the internal apps the issues of raised blacks with the do not occur. Other devices such as Fire Cube and the Shield do not have the raised black issue with DV. However, with apps such as Netflix, you are forced to watch them at the non native frame rate of 60hz, unless you go into settings and change to 24hz for the shows that are 24hz. The internal Netflix app on the LG tvs displays the shows on netflix at their native frame rate whether it be at 24fps, 23.976fps or 60fps. And of course the ATV4K cant do 24.000 fps properly. So yes, internal apps are better and should be first choice.

 

[HDFan]

Do you have the link?

Does the Apple TV have a future? - Macworld
https://apple.news/AQa7ITGEoTNWfDusoY4gHPg

 

[Juicy Box]

I don't know what the issue is with the remote as my remote works fine so perhaps many have defective remotes.

This topic has been discussed to death.

There are some things I like about the Siri Remote, but it does seem like the Siri Remote is one of, if not the biggest complaints about the ATV.

I won't get into my personal issues with the Siri Remote, as I have mentioned them many times on many other threads about the subject, but will just say that I do not think it is a matter of defective remotes, it is design of the Siri Remote.

It is clearly form over function, and while there are things to like about it, I think Apple would have just been better off having a D-pad on the Siri Remote.

Built in apps generally produce a better picture.

A blanketed statement saying that Smart TV's produce a better picture just isn't accurate.

There are a lot of factors that go into this.

Rather than derail the OP's thread turning into another one of the many Smart TV versus ATV threads, I will just refer to an existing thread that covers this topic very thoroughly:

With how good smart TVs are now, why keep my Apple TV?

I know it’s all subjective, but I thought I’d share me experience real quick before I head out the door. I’ve been using and loving apple tvs since the Apple TV 3. It’s been the centerpiece of my living room and I’ve had a lot of good times with it. There’s nothing better than going on a trip...

forums.macrumors.com

Besides picture alone, there are a bunch of other reasons to choose using an ATV4K over built in TV apps. Again, this topic has been discussed at length on countless threads.

However, with apps such as Netflix, you are forced to watch them at the non native frame rate of 60hz, unless you go into settings and change to 24hz for the shows that are 24hz.

When first using my newest Smart TV, I preferred the picture of the built in apps on almost every one. After messing with the settings, I greatly improved the experience using the Apple TV 4K.

I turned off Dolby Vision, set the format to "4K SDR", Chroma to "4:4:4", Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate both to "On".

While I still think certain apps look better with the built in apps, most are not. Besides, there are other factors besides picture that keep me on the ATV4K. At least for me, the two main reasons are the UI design of the tvOS, and the responsiveness that I just don't have with my Smart TV's OS.

Does the Apple TV have a future? - Macworld
https://apple.news/AQa7ITGEoTNWfDusoY4gHPg

Thank you.

To the OP:
The article doesn't appear to be an indepth analysis of why the future of the Apple TV is uncertain, but a surface level overview on the current streaming device market.

It is basically stuff that has been covered on this thread and many other. Actually, the author could have just checked out one of the many threads on MR about the topic and copied and pasted posts to fill over half of the article. (Obviously I am not saying that is what happened, but just illustrating that the topics covered is hardly anything new nor compelling)

There are some inaccuracies in the article.

For example:

What do you need 64GB of storage for? Apple says if you play lots of games or download lots of apps, but speaking as someone who has downloaded many of both over the past several years, I've never even come close to filling the 16GB. (And I've encountered very few cases of users who feel like the 16GB model didn't fit their need.)

Besides the fact that I have ran out of storage space on a 32GB ATV4K and a 64GB ATV4K, there is no way to accurately check free/use storage space on tvOS, not even with Xcode tools.

IIRC, I think @jwolf6589 started a thread on the topic of storage space of the ATV, and I explained then that the apps that measure the free storage space on tvOS are not accurate as it contains temporary and cached data. The same for Xcode.

The way that tvOS handles its temporary and cached data is actually a selling point for the ATV and against many other streaming devices and Smart TV apps. It stores a lot of data, filling a large percentage of available storage with cached data, enabling the user to exit an app, open up many other apps, then go back to an app that hasn't been used in a while, and continue right off where the user left.

I have personally seen this continuation last for many days on some apps.

Many other streaming devices and Smart TV apps automatically dump the temporary data when leaving one app for another.

It is a nice feature that you don't even realize is a feature until you use a different streaming device.

(And I've encountered very few cases of users who feel like the 16GB model didn't fit their need.)

There also has never been a 16GB model of ATV4 or ATV4K. Maybe it is a typo, but it states "16GB" multiple times.

 

[Packers1958]

When first using my newest Smart TV, I preferred the picture of the built in apps on almost every one. After messing with the settings, I greatly improved the experience using the Apple TV 4K.

I turned off Dolby Vision, set the format to "4K SDR", Chroma to "4:4:4", Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate both to "On".

While I still think certain apps look better with the built in apps, most are not. Besides, there are other factors besides picture that keep me on the ATV4K. At least for me, the two main reasons are the UI design of the tvOS, and the responsiveness that I just don't have with my Smart TV's OS.

Setting your ATV4K to those settings still does not fix the issue that no matter what you do, ATV4K can not properly handle 24.000 fps properly. It can handle 23.976 and 60 fps just fine, however there are some shows in Netflix that are done at 24.000 fps. This causes skipped frames on the ATV4K. Turning off DV is not a solution for those of us who own tv's that can handle DV. DV is superior compared to HDR10, and turning DV to prevent elevated blacks is not a solution. The solution is using the internal app for Netflix to get a superior experience. The internal app can handle 24.000 fps perfectly and displays DV perfectly. Maybe the next ATV will fix those issues, but as of right now, it is inferior compared to internal apps that can do DV and 24.000 fps. So for DV, the internal apps such as Netflix, Vudu and Disney+ are better. I use my ATV4K for watching sports, and Youtube TV, but for any movies and shows via apps such as I listed, my 4 year old LG E6 OLED still does a better job than the ATV4K.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

From a sales and marketing perspective the value proposition of the ATV4 vs Roku/FS/SmartTV alternatives is poor. We can debate the finer points all we want, but for most folks it doesn't tick enough boxes to justify it's cost.
This leaves Apple with two obvious options:
1) Offer a streaming device that leverages Apple's design and user experience chops at a competitive price +/- $70
2) Offer a home media hub that boasts HTPC features in a simple, compact design. It should be easy to use with a dedicated audio system. It should be able to use AI to optimize the signal for the specific display in use, with compensation for ambient light levels in the viewing area.
Offer a USB-TypeC port to support external storage capacities that enable time shifting and local library content.
Should support integration of multiple signal types for both legacy and latest generation devices.
Offer BlueTooth/WiFi management of sources and listening devices/environments. Whole house media systems controlled from your iPhone, iPad, Mac, etc.
It should include a small camera - with a lens cap - that would live on the display bezel for FaceTime/Zoom/Skype/etc. This camera could also serve as the ambient light witness. Should also be a BlueTooth RX/TX point.

Option 2 would likely be a $300-600 item aimed at technocrats, videophiles, smart home applications, etc. With a wireless keyboard/mouse/trackpad/etc it would make (almost) any display a computer screen for general computing tasks. Think location independent MacMini with less horsepower.

* Option 3 would be a more deluxe version, the love child of ATV and a MacMini in the $500-1,500 range. This would be an Mac version of the Home Theatre PC. Sadly, the size of the enthusiast market interested in such a device is unlikely to interest Apple.

 

[davcole]

I will always prefer a set top box to my internal apps!

I have a Roku TV and never use those apps. Only as backup!

 

[George Knighton]

I have a Samsung Smart TV on one floor, and a Samsung non-Smart TV (with Apple TV) on another floor.

Frequently, the same video will be available at a higher resolution and quality on the Samsung non-Smart TV with Apple TV than I can get on the Samsung Smart TV.

I have no idea why that is, and I'm not sure I want to research it. LOL....

But when I combine this phenomenon with the fact that the Samsung Smart TV is a little buggy with some applications (CBS All Access will sometimes just not load at all), I can see myself getting an Apple TV 4K for the Smart TV and just disconnecting the smart box.

The worst thing about Apple TV, IMHO, is the remote. I really wish they'd make some changes to that, but at least it's rechargeable.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I have a Samsung Smart TV on one floor, and a Samsung non-Smart TV (with Apple TV) on another floor.

Frequently, the same video will be available at a higher resolution and quality on the Samsung non-Smart TV with Apple TV than I can get on the Samsung Smart TV.

I have no idea why that is, and I'm not sure I want to research it. LOL....

But when I combine this phenomenon with the fact that the Samsung Smart TV is a little buggy with some applications (CBS All Access will sometimes just not load at all), I can see myself getting an Apple TV 4K for the Smart TV and just disconnecting the smart box.

The worst thing about Apple TV, IMHO, is the remote. I really wish they'd make some changes to that, but at least it's rechargeable.

Agree re: quality of video from ATV vs ATV app built into Samsung TV (only smart TVs I have are Samsung, so nothing to compare it to).

Re: remote - you are spot on. That remote is awful. I use the silver remote from g2/g3 ATV. Can live without the Siri interface... I have even used the white first gen remote from ATV 1 on occasion...

 

[jbachandouris]

I have two Samsung 'Smart' TV's, both the same model and size. They are apparently too old for Samsung to develop Apple TV, yet they had no problem with a CBS All Access App. I only tried the CBS app on Star Trek Discovery and it wouldn't go more than a few minutes without buffering (?). Works just fine with Apple TV and all devices in the house regardless of proximity to the router. The TV is right NEXT to the router.

As for Apple TV, I rarely use it at all. I cancelled CBS All Access and barely watch Apple TV+ so that's most likely being cancelled in November. I should make my son pay for Netflix as he's the primary user.

 

[nutmac]

Apple TV 4K ($179-199) is squeezed between Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K ($49.99) and Xbox Series S ($299). As a fan of Apple TV experience (usability + privacy + contents), I can certainly justify spending more, but Dan Moren is absolutely right.

Apple TV is suffering from an identity crisis.

1. $179 is too expensive for a streaming device. Apple's answer seems to be Apple TV app for other TV platforms.
2. As a gaming console, it is neither significantly cheaper (once you add $59.99 gaming controller, it is only $60 cheaper than Xbox Series S) nor Apple Arcade compete with AAA titles that other console makers have.

Hopefully, Apple TV 6 will bring some clarity to Apple's vision for the product.

 

[HDFan]

Frequently, the same video will be available at a higher resolution and quality on the Samsung non-Smart TV with Apple TV than I can get on the Samsung Smart TV.

If the TV is not smart (i.e., no TV apps), how can videos be available? With no apps your only sources are those that you plug into the TV (cable, AppleTV, etc.).

 

[jwolf6589]

Agree re: quality of video from ATV vs ATV app built into Samsung TV (only smart TVs I have are Samsung, so nothing to compare it to).

Re: remote - you are spot on. That remote is awful. I use the silver remote from g2/g3 ATV. Can live without the Siri interface... I have even used the white first gen remote from ATV 1 on occasion...

I have no problems with my remote.

 

[George Knighton]

If the TV is not smart (i.e., no TV apps), how can videos be available? With no apps your only sources are those that you plug into the TV (cable, AppleTV, etc.).

In the case of the TV without the smart module, the videos are streamed through the Apple TV.