G4 cannot see files on intel Mac Mini

[r6mile]

Hi all,
(First of all, apologies if this is a basic question).

See in my signature for my setup. I have a 2012 Mac Mini (10.15) and a G4 MDD (10.5) connected via Ethernet (I am waiting for delivery of a FW800 cable so I can network this way, freeing up the Mini's ethernet port to be connected to a 2008 Mac Pro).

From the Mini, I can share internet to the G4, screen share into the G4, transfer files into the G4 with no issues. However, the reverse doesn't seem to work. The G4 can see the Mini in the network, but I get an error message when trying to connect to it.

Furthermore, its Time Machine cannot see my external HDD that is plugged into the Mini as a backup destination; this HDD does backups for my MBA and my Mac Pro, and file-sharing works well in both directions.

Is there a way for the G4 to see files on the Mini? Or is there a Leopard->Catalina (or PowerPC->Intel) incompatibility that I've missed?

And finally, is there a way for the MBA (connected directly to the router via WiFi) or the Mac Pro, and the G4 (connected to the Mini, itself connected to the router via WiFi) to see each other a part of the same network? I realise it's not a straightforward setup!

Many thanks!

 

[dontgoaway]

I'm sure there are people here that can provide a real answer but I had assumed that it was something to do with AFPS. Prepared to be very wrong about this though.

 

[r6mile]

I'm sure there are people here that can provide a real answer but I had assumed that it was something to do with AFPS. Prepared to be very wrong about this though.

I thought so too, but my external drive is formatted as HFS+. Let's see if the experts have an answer

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Is it possible to formate the drive under 10.5 and then put the files to the driver again?

Perhaps the drive is using core storage.

 

[r6mile]

Is it possible to formate the drive under 10.5 and then put the files to the driver again?

Perhaps the drive is using core storage.

I see, thank you. Yes that could very well be it. Unfortunately I can't really reformat it as the drive has a lot of personal data. It's not a dealbreaker as I am mostly transferring data into the G4 anyway - I just thought it was strange.
PS: I have reinstalled Leopard, and not sure if that's related but I can now screen share from the G4 into the 2012 Mini - wild!

 

[David Hassholehoff]

First of all, daisy chaining the computers together sounds unnecessarily complicated. Unless you want to do it this way specifically for curiosity or whatever, I suggest you buy a cheap switch. A D-Link DGS-105 is less than €20.

Secondly, I am fairly sure the filesystem doesn't matter. As I stated in a different thread, I run Time Machine backups to a FreeBSD server using ZFS. The important factor is AppleTalk, not the filesystem. I don't know why it isn't showing up for you, though.

What message do you get if you use the "Connect to server" (⌘K) dialogue in Finder?

 

[r6mile]

First of all, daisy chaining the computers together sounds unnecessarily complicated. Unless you want to do it this way specifically for curiosity or whatever, I suggest you buy a cheap switch. A D-Link DGS-105 is less than €20.

Secondly, I am fairly sure the filesystem doesn't matter. As I stated in a different thread, I run Time Machine backups to a FreeBSD server using ZFS. The important factor is AppleTalk, not the filesystem. I don't know why it isn't showing up for you, though.

What message do you get if you use the "Connect to server" (⌘K) dialogue in Finder?

Hi, thanks for your response. The reason I'm doing this is to avoid running a long Ethernet cable from the router downstairs to the study upstairs - not sure my wife would take too kindly to that. Otherwise I totally agree, a switch would be far simpler! May I can find one with WiFi though.

I am not home now but from memory I get some sort of error message and about needing to check the IP address. Will post when I'm back - I get the same message on both (freshly installed) Tiger and Leopard BTW, and I think Jaguar also.

File sharing TO the G4 works very well, and I'm now able to screen share in both directions. It's just file sharing from the G4 to the Mini - it's not that I'm unable to access a specific drive, I can't even connect to the Mini to see the folders or drives (though I can see the Mini).

 

[iluvmacs99]

Hi all,
(First of all, apologies if this is a basic question).

See in my signature for my setup. I have a 2012 Mac Mini (10.15) and a G4 MDD (10.5) connected via Ethernet (I am waiting for delivery of a FW800 cable so I can network this way, freeing up the Mini's ethernet port to be connected to a 2008 Mac Pro).

From the Mini, I can share internet to the G4, screen share into the G4, transfer files into the G4 with no issues. However, the reverse doesn't seem to work. The G4 can see the Mini in the network, but I get an error message when trying to connect to it.

Furthermore, its Time Machine cannot see my external HDD that is plugged into the Mini as a backup destination; this HDD does backups for my MBA and my Mac Pro, and file-sharing works well in both directions.

Is there a way for the G4 to see files on the Mini? Or is there a Leopard->Catalina (or PowerPC->Intel) incompatibility that I've missed?

And finally, is there a way for the MBA (connected directly to the router via WiFi) or the Mac Pro, and the G4 (connected to the Mini, itself connected to the router via WiFi) to see each other a part of the same network? I realise it's not a straightforward setup!

Many thanks!

Unfortunately, you can't make the G4 see files on the Mini unless you downgrade to Mojave. All OSX version up to Mojave has support for SMB1 which allows your older macs to see files served by a SMB1 server. Starting with Catalina and onwards, the default file server protocol had been changed to SMB3 for better security, which means your G4 can't see files on the Mini. You need to downgrade to Mojave or older to allow your G4 to see the Mini. This is the reason why my Mini has Sierra 10.12.6 on it to maintain backwards compatibility with my G5 file server which has better compatibility with older AFS protocols with my G4&G3 Powerbooks. SMB1 is really ancient and is an insecure file server protocol in today's internet age. I would only recommend having this if it is on your private LAN and never expose your old system with SMB1 to the internet as people can easily hack into SMB1. Which was why Apple chose SMB3 as default for Catalina and onwards.

The final answer to your question is yes. You can make your MBA, Mac Pro, G4 and all see each other as part of the same network as I have done with my own. All my Mac computers on my signature below as well as my Windows 10 gaming system and my Linux Mint 20 laptop all see each other as well as my G5 file server and print server to my old laser printer. They all can use that. However, you need to setup a centralized network hub which I use the Mini and the PowerMac G5 for. Mini for newer machines and G5 for older machines inside a private LAN set up with 2 Asus routers running Merlin security software. Basically the Merlin software is used to filter and stop malware website for machines that are too old to get on the internet safely like my G5 and G4, whereas the 2nd router is used for more direct faster connection to the net because the OS are more modern. It's not a straight setup and requires some I.T know how, but it can be done.

 

[eyoungren]

Concerning your situation about not running an ethernet cable all the way to your router. I'm in a similar situation. It's just not feasible (or pretty) to run a cable from my router to the upstairs bedroom, or out to the garage where I have other Macs (I wouldn't be able to close the garage door). I'm also not about to start drilling holes and routing cable through walls and ceilings.

So, the alternative I went with is Powerline. Powerline adapters use your home's wiring as 'cable'. They are fairly cheap too. I paid $20 for a two pack (you need two) of Gigabit Ethernet adapters on eBay.

What you do is plug one into a wall socket next to your router. Run a cable from your router to the adapter. Wherever your office is, you plug the second adapter into a wall socket and then run a cable from there to your Mac, although a hub or switch would be better. You can then plug all your Macs up there into the hub/switch.

It works pretty well, but don't expect the full speed of what you buy. Using multiple devices off the adapter also means you are sharing that bandwidth. But it works pretty well. I can transfer large files from my Macs in the living room to my Mini in the garage in a couple of minutes. I've got six Macs out there in the garage riding off one gigabit switch and one 100mbps switch. Both are connected to the powerline adapter.

PS. Some of these adapters have multiple ethernet ports and come with pass through plugs so you can still use the socket for other things. Those will probably cost you more.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

Unfortunately, you can't make the G4 see files on the Mini unless you downgrade to Mojave.

I'm not quite sure that's true.

All OSX version up to Mojave has support for SMB1 which allows your older macs to see files served by a SMB1 server. Starting with Catalina and onwards, the default file server protocol had been changed to SMB3 for better security, which means your G4 can't see files on the Mini. You need to downgrade to Mojave or older to allow your G4 to see the Mini. [...]

Yes, which is why I'm suggesting OP use AppleTalk and Apple Filesharing Protocol (AFP), not Super Mario Bros. (SMB).

 

[r6mile]

I'm not quite sure that's true.

Yes, which is why I'm suggesting OP use AppleTalk and Apple Filesharing Protocol (AFP), not Super Mario Bros. (SMB). View attachment 942503

Ok I feel incredibly stupid now... All I had to do was enable AFP on the Mini as you show above, and it's all working! Thanks a lot @David Hassholehoff .

The G4 still can't see the networked drive as a Time Machine destination, but I imagine that's a limitation of TM under Leopard.

EDIT: OK so it turns out that while I can now see the shared folders, I can't actually see any of their contents - they are empty when I click on them, and under 'info' they show as Zero KB folders. Is there something else I'm missing?

@eyoungren thanks for the suggestion to use PowerLine, I have used it before (about 10-15 years ago) and it worked well, do you think it would be faster than 802.11n? Because that's what I'm using now - the Mac mini is essentially acting as the bridge/router for the Mac Pro and the PowerMac G4 - and it works well. My study is just up a flight of stairs from the router in the hallway (about 8-10 metres?) so may stick with my current setup if there's no overwhelming speed advantage.

 

[eyoungren]

@eyoungren thanks for the suggestion to use PowerLine, I have used it before (about 10-15 years ago) and it worked well, do you think it would be faster than 802.11n? Because that's what I'm using now - the Mac mini is essentially acting as the bridge/router for the Mac Pro and the PowerMac G4 - and it works well. My study is just up a flight of stairs from the router in the hallway (about 8-10 metres?) so may stick with my current setup if there's no overwhelming speed advantage.

Well, Gigabit speeds (assuming you get a Gigabit adapter) is 1000mbps while 802.11n tops out at 600mbps. Realistically, 802.11n speeds are around 150-300.

Of course you won't get the Gigabit speeds because it's Powerline, but if you get even half (which I think is being conservative) 500mbps will be faster than the 150-300 you probably pull now.

If you can find some adapters for a low price I would say try it. If nothing else it gives you the option to expand with a hub or switch upstairs. Unless your house has really old wiring it's unlikely you'd take a hit on speeds.

But if it's not faster, then you've got something as a backup to use for any other networking issue that may come along. Powerline has come a long ways since the early days. It's certainly made things easier for me.

PS, info here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/wi-fi-vs-ethernet-has-wireless-killed-wired

 

[David Hassholehoff]

I used a PowerLine (D-Link, I think) until recently to connect a fileserver to a switch in another room, it worked very well (I'd say about 500 mbit). What you have to take into account is that the outlets have to be residing on the same circuit. I tried using the same PowerLine to connect stuff at my parents' house, but it didn't work because the rooms were on different fuses or whatever.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

Well, Gigabit speeds (assuming you get a Gigabit adapter) is 1000mbps while 802.11n tops out at 600mbps. Realistically, 802.11n speeds are around 150-300.

Of course you won't get the Gigabit speeds because it's Powerline, but if you get even half (which I think is being conservative) 500mbps will be faster than the 150-300 you probably pull now.

[...]

PS, info here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/wi-fi-vs-ethernet-has-wireless-killed-wired

Very good points.

As a general rule, if you can use wires, use wires.

 

[r6mile]

Well, Gigabit speeds (assuming you get a Gigabit adapter) is 1000mbps while 802.11n tops out at 600mbps. Realistically, 802.11n speeds are around 150-300.

Of course you won't get the Gigabit speeds because it's Powerline, but if you get even half (which I think is being conservative) 500mbps will be faster than the 150-300 you probably pull now.

If you can find some adapters for a low price I would say try it. If nothing else it gives you the option to expand with a hub or switch upstairs. Unless your house has really old wiring it's unlikely you'd take a hit on speeds.

But if it's not faster, then you've got something as a backup to use for any other networking issue that may come along. Powerline has come a long ways since the early days. It's certainly made things easier for me.

PS, info here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/wi-fi-vs-ethernet-has-wireless-killed-wired

Thanks! I will give it a try. My house is from 1903 though, no idea when it was rewired!

 

[iluvmacs99]

I'm not quite sure that's true.

Yes, which is why I'm suggesting OP use AppleTalk and Apple Filesharing Protocol (AFP), not Super Mario Bros. (SMB). View attachment 942503

But I think it still may not work. You might be able to see the drive under AFP, but you won't be able to see its content. I remembered trying this on my own setup, gave up, and finally settled upon a solution I now use between my G5 and Mac Mini 2011.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Thanks! I will give it a try. My house is from 1903 though, no idea when it was rewired!

Powerline works better if you have modern wiring or else the speed isn't any better than wireless N. If it's in a really old house, then wireless AC or wireless AX would be a better choice. You can adapt a wireless AC router to connect to the G4 by connecting a wireless AC router and bridging it to another AC router. Once you bridge one AC router to another AC router, you then have multiple ports available in a particular room. AC and AX beaming forming are more superior than Powerline and also more secure. I use the bridging method with my G5, which is why it is serving close to gigabit speeds while acting as a print server for all connected machines. Wireless AC is a bit more money though compared to Powerline. I was using Powerline before, but abandoned it when AC came out.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

But I think it still may not work. You might be able to see the drive under AFP, but you won't be able to see its content. I remembered trying this on my own setup, gave up, and finally settled upon a solution I now use between my G5 and Mac Mini 2011.

Did you not read the message where OP got it working? Perhaps you gave up too easily?

Powerline works better if you have modern wiring or else the speed isn't any better than wireless N. If it's in a really old house, then wireless AC or wireless AX would be a better choice. You can adapt a wireless AC router to connect to the G4 by connecting a wireless AC router and bridging it to another AC router. Once you bridge one AC router to another AC router, you then have multiple ports available in a particular room. AC and AX beaming forming are more superior than Powerline and also more secure. I use the bridging method with my G5, which is why it is serving close to gigabit speeds while acting as a print server for all connected machines. Wireless AC is a bit more money though compared to Powerline. I was using Powerline before, but abandoned it when AC came out.

I agree, the better wiring, the better results. Still, I would absolutely go for a PowerLine from the router to the other room, and to that PowerLine I would connect a small, cheap 4-5 port switch to which I would connect my old computers. That way, all machines have access to the Internet and to each other as well, the router will dish out IP addresses and communication between the machines on the switch will be unaffected by any PowerLine or wiring limitations.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Did you not read the message where OP got it working? Perhaps you gave up too easily?

I agree, the better wiring, the better results. Still, I would absolutely go for a PowerLine from the router to the other room, and to that PowerLine I would connect a small, cheap 4-5 port switch to which I would connect my old computers. That way, all machines have access to the Internet and to each other as well, the router will dish out IP addresses and communication between the machines on the switch will be unaffected by any PowerLine or wiring limitations.

Actually I did, but you seemed to have missed that the OP could not read the content inside the shared folder.

His quote:

EDIT: OK so it turns out that while I can now see the shared folders, I can't actually see any of their contents - they are empty when I click on them, and under 'info' they show as Zero KB folders. Is there something else I'm missing?

Do you have a solution for the OP that I may have missed?

 

[David Hassholehoff]

I didn't miss it, it was edited in after I read it. And who implied I've given up?

I'll check with some of my own machines to make sure, but I'll have to install Leopard first.

 

[iluvmacs99]

You didn't reply to it and if you did know, you would have linked the solution. I found a solution already from someone on MacRumors on June 2020 who posted a solution.

Jun 11, 2020

• Add bookmark
• #1

I am posting this because I could not find this answer anywhere.

Did you upgrade to Catalina Server and have issues getting AFP to work?

Does it connect and then prompt that you have no access to the files?

Well, search no further for your solution.

1. Open System Preferences.
2. Click Security & Privacy.
3. Click Privacy.
4. Click Full Disk Access.
5. Unlock the pane.
6. Click "+".
7. Select /System/Library/CoreServices/AppleFileServer/Contents/MacOS/AppleFileServer.
8. Ensure it is checked after.
9. Connect to AFP from a client and you will have solved the world problems for Apple legacy support.

Enjoy!

This is the solution that I gave up upon, because I didn't know which CoreServices library to give full disk access to. Perhaps I gave up too soon.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

Excellent! I was going to dig up and install Leopard on a Ti PowerBook, but that seems unnecessary now if everything works for OP.

 

[r6mile]

Excellent! I was going to dig up and install Leopard on a Ti PowerBook, but that seems unnecessary now if everything works for OP.

I will try this solution above later this evening and report!

EDIT: This worked! Thanks so much @David Hassholehoff and @iluvmacs99!

EDIT2: Leopard can even see the drives attached to the Mini as valid Time Machine destinations. Great result!