G4 Powerbook vs. Area 51m 5500??

[jadam]

Im still using my 700mhz ibook after almost 3 years of having it. If I had bought a G4 867 powerbook(or was it G4 800?) at the time my ibook was out, I would still be using it for at least another 1-2 years.

 

[Mechcozmo]

oh yeah... I forgot that... I'd definately have to buy another battery for the 51m 5500... But my brother has a G4 powerbook 667Mhz and he says the battery lasts under 2hrs with more intensive CPU use, which is comparable to the 51m...

Another question... How is the Wireless capablilty on the powerbook in terms of picking up signal and stuff?

WiFi IMO is great. Large built in antenne mean that I get better reception than the "mini-PCI" cards that are standard nowadays in PeeCees. iBooks are better generally but I haven't ever had any issues with my 12" PowerBook. And the 17" has great reception-- my aunt has one, and when I use it, it can get a signal quite a bit stronger..... but my 12" will still have signal.

And a PowerBook of that age has a dead battery. Well, dying. There are upgraded cell batteries for the TiBooks nowadays to allow for 6 hours and up battery life. Good investment.

 

[Chrispy]

I was in a similar situation as you. After having a terrible string of experiences with apple, I was fed up. I decided I was going to use PCs again and say scew apple. That lasted for about a day haha. I had been using my Dell Dimension 3000 and it was fine (it is a great gaming computer with my added graphics card) and I have nothing against dell as some do. However, I missed OS X very much and I missed having a laptop. First, I looked at a Dell Inspiron 700m and I really liked the size, solid construction and the 12.1" widescreen ultrasharp display. Overall, it looks like a great windows ultra portable laptop...

I am now typing to you from an 12" Powerbook hooked up to a 19" Dell Ultrasharp monitor haha. So what happened that made me switch back to a powerbook? After weighing my options I realized the powerbook only cost about $200 more than the dell and I would get a very solid and compact laptop capable of running OS X. I knew in the end the powerbook would hold its value more. I have nothing against Windows XP for about the first 6 months or so that it is installed, but after that it just goes downhill. I knew with the apple I would not be re-installing my operating system every 6 month to a year to get solid and snappy performance out of my computer. I have a dell desktop to satisfy all my windows needs so for me the decision to get the powerbook became crystal clear. I am one of those people who questions all decisions I make and sometimes I wonder if the nice screen of the 700m would satisfy me for than the 12" powerbook... and then I remember all the reasons I chose the powerbook over the dell. Just go with what you feel is best for you. If you want stability and reliability, go with an apple. If you really want a windows machine for other uses.. just get a refurb dell for $250 and add a graphics card and some ram. Just my opinion ;-)

 

[zimtheinvader]

lol, that is the notebook that E-mu systems showed their new EmuX professional sound card in!! I had wondered about that... I think it is also the laptop Scratch Dj school uses...

personally, I loved my ibook (sold to save up for PB) so I would go for a 15"PB, though the 5500 may be currently more powerful for not only games but rendering audio, burning cds, ect. at least that has been my experience with my PMG4 vs P4PC, which is annoying but Windows is soo bad it negates any real advantage in power...

 

[zimtheinvader]

ah, yes to add, I would second Crispy, you can't beat the bizzare deals dell has on refurbs for gaming!!(see 'xpbargains.com' or other sites for rebates they constantly have!)
I priced an 8400/XPS and it was cheaper to get the dell refurb w/warranty than to buy even just the cpu+hdds+Nvidia256mb card!! Almost cheaper than just getting a gaming console!
It seems most people I run into still think that in terms of laptops, no one has yet come up with an answer to the PB in terms of portability/power/size/style, even ppl w/ nice windows laptops (XPS, ect.) are jealous of PB 15"s. In terms of longevity, the P4 and the G4 were not that substancially different I thought in terms of one being much more 'advanced' or new than the other. The AMD-64s though are clearly 'forward thinking' or a bit more of an investment perhaps than a G4 or other 32bit.

 

[solvs]

I found thats true with my brother's older G4 powermac too. Since you cant really upgrade (and I guess you really wouldnt be able to upgrade the 51m 5500 other than memory) I'd opt for a really high end processor which would be a little bit too fast for what I'm doing now, but in like 3-4 years would still be able to handle newer software.

I dunno... am I thinking it all wrong?

Yes.

You can upgrade a PowerMac just as you would a PC. Maybe a little more expensive for some things, but RAM and hard drives are the same. As you mentioned, you'll be getting a laptop, so it won't be that upgradable anyway. Though there have been some companies that released G4 upgrades for old PowerBooks. True, OS 9 has to be emulated in OS X, but since it's only just coming into being standard within the last few years, I suspect it will be awhile before you have to worry about the next big Rev. Especially after Tiger is released (which will run all OS X apps fine BTW). Especially if you upgrade the RAM and the video to 128MB. You will be good for quite some time.

Obviously the latest and greatest will not be able to run as well as a new machine in a few years, but that is the case with any computer. Especially a laptop.

 

[Southbridge]

As I look at the other posts in this forum, I see the comment that the new 1.67 G4 Powerbook is pretty much maxing out the capability of the processor...

I think this is what I'm afraid of in terms of obsolecence. If I buy one of the last versions of a line of G4 powerbooks, wont I be getting screwed some 2 to 3 years down the road?

Especially with the issue of the limited FSB (I think its 167mhz?) compared with the 800mhz of the 51m 5500. Will the powerbook feel sluggish in a few years?

Also I have to commit to buying all new software, including a new version of Photoshop, etc.

I know that OS X comes bundled with some interesting software like GarageBand, but I dont know how useful it will really be for me...

I dunno... 🙁

 

[jadam]

get a 1.67ghz Powerbook with 128mb of VRAM, trust me you will love it. A new OS isnt coming for another 2-3 years so It won't feel sluggish at all. Plus with teh 128mb Radeon 9700, a lot of the drawing work is offloaded onto the GPU with Core Image/Video/Graphics.

 

[solvs]

If I buy one of the last versions of a line of G4 powerbooks, wont I be getting screwed some 2 to 3 years down the road?

Especially with the issue of the limited FSB (I think its 167mhz?) compared with the 800mhz of the 51m 5500. Will the powerbook feel sluggish in a few years?

You are buying a laptop, you won't be upgrading the CPU or motherboard anyway. And I can guarantee that the G4 will be running the latest software in 2-3 years better than the P4 (unless of course Longhorn is still not out by then 😛 which is a possibility). And though the G4's FSB is a bit on the slow side, remember that that 800MHz FSB on the P4 is actually a quad pumped 200MHz FSB. I'm not saying it won't be faster for some things, but you do have to put up with the downsides already mentioned.

Also I have to commit to buying all new software, including a new version of Photoshop, etc.

Adobe does cross-platform updating. Others do as well. M$ does not.

I would suggest you try a PowerBook first. We can say all we want, but you won't be convinced until you try one in person. Trust me, you'll love it. iLife and iWork alone are worth it. And you can always keep the PC, you don't have to go all Mac. A lot of us still have PCs too for some things.

 

[Timelessblur]

I would argue very strongly against including computer programming in that list. I'm currently in a Masters Computer Engineering program, and for things such as programming OS X is extremely nice. Especially with X11, if you ever need to work off a school computer running any Unix/Linux it's much nicer than using anything Windows provides. Keep in mind most University programming involves a form of Unix, which Windows does not play as nice with (you could install Linux though). Of course general Engineering is a slightly different story... but Macs can still be used without too much hassle.

hmm I heard to many stories to fully buy that. Being an civil engineering major I can argue much more stronging for Archtechal and engineering side (archtechal because I have way to many friends who are Archtechs and there are a lot of dual majors or former (Arch/CE one of the hardest dual majors out there) running around in the CE deparments that I am friends with so I know the software they use very well and I most of the it is PC only and it some of the high end stuff but it all under the more "pro" lv stuff that very few people use and it where the lack fo software is a very vialid arguement
As for the CS majors I dont know it as well but strong enough to argue for the PC on it since I have a few good friends who are majoring in CS and enough contacts with them to know that the Mac users are running into a lot of more problems an the windows ones. Mainly in compliaing there programs and having them work accross the plateform barier. Now when you get to up in to the higher lvs I dont know it as well but though the first 2-3 years I know about the problems they have. Heck even one of hte mac users when out and bought her self a cheap PC to work on for her CS class due to the problems she was running into. All in all it comes down to what the school uses and most of them are teaching with C++ and visal studios which the mac will struggle with on the projects.

 

[Demon Hunter]

hmm I heard to many stories to fully buy that. Being an civil engineering major I can argue much more stronging for Archtechal and engineering side (archtechal because I have way to many friends who are Archtechs and there are a lot of dual majors or former (Arch/CE one of the hardest dual majors out there) running around in the CE deparments that I am friends with so I know the software they use very well and I most of the it is PC only and it some of the high end stuff but it all under the more "pro" lv stuff that very few people use and it where the lack fo software is a very vialid arguement
As for the CS majors I dont know it as well but strong enough to argue for the PC on it since I have a few good friends who are majoring in CS and enough contacts with them to know that the Mac users are running into a lot of more problems an the windows ones. Mainly in compliaing there programs and having them work accross the plateform barier. Now when you get to up in to the higher lvs I dont know it as well but though the first 2-3 years I know about the problems they have. Heck even one of hte mac users when out and bought her self a cheap PC to work on for her CS class due to the problems she was running into. All in all it comes down to what the school uses and most of them are teaching with C++ and visal studios which the mac will struggle with on the projects.

That was horrendous to read. But yes, "architects" will have a hard time using Macs, because they use such specialized hardware. There is a community of Mac architects, but for programming and development, OSX is an excellent platform.

 

[Timelessblur]

That was horrendous to read. But yes, "architects" will have a hard time using Macs, because they use such specialized hardware. There is a community of Mac architects, but for programming and development, OSX is an excellent platform.

Umm it is not hardware. it is software that just does not exist on the mac plate form that is going to get the architects and engineers. yeah some of it exist on the mac plateform but when you compare it to the PC side equivent programs lets just say the mac programs just suck. It like when you compare oh Text editor on the mac to MSoffice.

For programing the mac users tend to run into problems when they complile there code and it just will not work when it graded. Program no work means bad grade some time no work = 0. Their is a reason that the mac users in the CS classes either A bought a PC or B had to bug a friend in the class to let them use their PC for a few hours to fix there code and make it work.

 

[Demon Hunter]

For programing the mac users tend to run into problems when they complile there code and it just will not work when it graded. Program no work means bad grade some time no work = 0. Their is a reason that the mac users in the CS classes either A bought a PC or B had to bug a friend in the class to let them use their PC for a few hours to fix there code and make it work.

Yeah, that was a typo, I meant to say software. 🙄

Macs use the same gcc compilers as PCs... they must not know very much if they have to compile on a PC. I know many Mac users in CS classes who do no such thing.

 

[Timelessblur]

Yeah, that was a typo, I meant to say software. 🙄

Macs use the same gcc compilers as PCs... they must not know very much if they have to compile on a PC. I know many Mac users in CS classes who do no such thing.

Trust me when I tell you they need to test it on a PC before they turn it in. It compiles on the mac but it no suprised when you find out it does not work on a PC for some reason. So they are smart enough to test it on a PC. It how it gets opizmized on the mac. The PowerPC chip is what mucs it up.

You look at what the schools using if they are going to be using visal studios and C++ you want to get a PC to prevent the little bugs from cropping up

 

[vasaz]

Trust me when I tell you they need to test it on a PC before they turn it in. It compiles on the mac but it no suprised when you find out it does not work on a PC for some reason. So they are smart enough to test it on a PC. It how it gets opizmized on the mac. The PowerPC chip is what mucs it up.

You look at what the schools using if they are going to be using visal studios and C++ you want to get a PC to prevent the little bugs from cropping up

Looks like this thread is being hijacked. I'd agree that if VC++ is used exclusively then the PC is a better choice, but to my knowledge few University's use it for educating and research (better safe than sorry though... always check). And VC++ also runs okay in Virtual PC for light duty stuff (such as checking if something compiles or not).. as long as it's not used daily. Anyways, yes, there are minor differences across versions of gcc/g++, and I actually did run into a problem where it compiled on my powerbook but not a school computer due to a version difference being used by the grader (v 3.3 vs 2.9 I think). So it is always best to know what the grader is using, and make sure it works there at the end (but before that final point, I'd argue that OS X still beats Windows for writing the program, and X11 can be used to check compatibility without ever leaving your computer). All though anyone who gets the program working should get full credit if they can prove it...

Oh, btw, the original reason I said OS X is better than Windows for comp sci majors, is because many programs that are used (such as SQL, Lisp, DDD) can be compiled and run very easily through OS X using Fink. And since OS X is unix based, you can just about do anything on it that you would on a school Solaris or Linux box with little fiddling. On windows it's often a headache.

 

[Southbridge]

Looks like this thread is being hijacked. I'd agree that if VC++ is used exclusively then the PC is a better choice, but to my knowledge few University's use it for educating and research (better safe than sorry though... always check). And VC++ also runs okay in Virtual PC for light duty stuff (such as checking if something compiles or not).. as long as it's not used daily. Anyways, yes, there are minor differences across versions of gcc/g++, and I actually did run into a problem where it compiled on my powerbook but not a school computer due to a version difference being used by the grader (v 3.3 vs 2.9 I think). So it is always best to know what the grader is using, and make sure it works there at the end (but before that final point, I'd argue that OS X still beats Windows for writing the program, and X11 can be used to check compatibility without ever leaving your computer). All though anyone who gets the program working should get full credit if they can prove it...

Oh, btw, the original reason I said OS X is better than Windows for comp sci majors, is because many programs that are used (such as SQL, Lisp, DDD) can be compiled and run very easily through OS X using Fink. And since OS X is unix based, you can just about do anything on it that you would on a school Solaris or Linux box with little fiddling. On windows it's often a headache.

I think your discussion on VC++ clinched it, and I'm gonna get a powerbook.

 

[Mechcozmo]

I think your discussion on VC++ clinched it, and I'm gonna get a powerbook.

Welcome to the light side of computing!

😀

If you have any questions, post back on MacRumors. Glad to have another Mac user. 🙂

 

[Southbridge]

Welcome to the light side of computing!

😀

If you have any questions, post back on MacRumors. Glad to have another Mac user. 🙂

j/k... well j/k about the VC++ because I have no idea what the hell that is... although I do think I'll go with the powerbook mainly because I want a laptop that my g/f can use as well thats both easy to use and cool at the same time. If it was just me using it, I think maybe I'd go with the 51m, because I dont mind dealing with machines if they become difficult; its sort of a challenge...

Thanks for the input... I must say before I posted I was definately leaning for the 51m, but you guys changed my thinking about it.... 🙂

Oh and one other thing... 1.5Ghz or 1.67Ghz? is the upgrade worth it?
Superdrive or no Superdrive?

 

[JoE950]

Oh and one other thing... 1.5Ghz or 1.67Ghz? is the upgrade worth it?
Superdrive or no Superdrive?

get the 1.67 for the 128 mb vram upgrade.. 1.5 if you dont care about the vram.

superdrive.. why the **** not?? 😉