g4 vs. g5

[boxcar]

I figure if i get the dual 1.25 g4 it gives me a couple of years to get used to mac os, and the software i'd be running. By that time i'll be able to get a g5 (or higher) with all the kinks worked out. i really wouldn't be able to get the dual 2ghz g5 for financial reasons. I could get the 1.8, but that would mean i'd lose some of my audio equipment.. and it seems the 1.6 g5 and the dual 1.25 are fairly comparable in specs, etc...
i will be doing audio work, but nothing hugely strenous.... i don't imagine i'd be recording too many tracks simultaneously, and i doubt i'd drop more than 12tracks total anyway.
i've got a soundproof cabinet for the g4 so noise shouldn't be an issue either....
i think it's really a matter of patience. I really don't want to wait an undetermined amount of time to put some material out there.

do we think there will be further drops to the g4 price? and do we think that g4 powermacs are finished? (i.e. no more updates)

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

like to make a little point, a dual g4 1.42 is making about 96 frames per second in quake 3 at 1024 x 768 with radeon 8500. A dual 2 gig g5 is doing 337 according to apple on a ati9800. so if a 1.6 with the 9800 does close to half we are still looking at 150-160 fps maybe a little more. 150 vs 96 for dual 1.42. a big leap if you consider quake 3 is optimised for duallies. They didnt give us that many benches for the 1.6.

 

[allpar]

Guess I'm just being impatient for September 3 (current shipping date). I also think the 1.6 and 1.8 aren't very far apart - PCI-X seems like something I won't use, the RAM upgradeability doesn't bother me too much, and the performance of both seems fairly similar.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

allpar i noticed this also in the technology overview. I think there will be a large difference between a dual 1.42 and single g5 1.6. i'm starting to lean that way with a ati9800. should make a great gaming system.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Re: Specs...

Originally posted by allpar
...would have been nice if Apple had posted some real-world comparison of the G4 to the G5, it's all speculation now. I did notice on their performance PDF that the 1.6 G5 outperforms a 3 GHz Pentium IV. Does the dual-G4 do that?

In one word ( No )!

 

[allpar]

...then it looks as though a single 1.6 is quite a bit more powerful than a dual 1.25.

 

[Dreamail]

Originally posted by allpar
...then it looks as though a single 1.6 is quite a bit more powerful than a dual 1.25.

I'd guess it's the ATi 9800 which is stealing the show here.

This test doesn't show the performance of the 9800, but according to Tom's Hardware the 9700 runs already about 300% (!) faster than the 8500 in some tests:
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-04.html

A single 1.6GHz G5 CPU might actually not be faster than a dual 1.25GHz G4. In some apps which cannot use dual CPUs surely, but probably not on the ones that do.

 

[G3-Pwnz-G4]

ok, so hang on a minute...the Geforce 3 is FASTER than a Geforce 4?????

now, am i the only one who thinks that is a tad backwards??

 

[daveg5]

Re: g4 vs. g5

Originally posted by boxcar
Does anyone think it's worth it to pick up the older g4 dual 1.2 for 1500$ or should i just get the g5.
i don't need the computer asap, but would like to have it sooner rather than later.
i'm doing basic audio work... recording studio stuff. running reason 2.5 and digital performer.
opinions?

The best article on this can be found here. www.lowendmac.com
most people find the duals fine with logic, dp etc.
i use cubase sl in osx, logic and vst in os9 and like both although on my old machine osx is slightly slower but still gets the job done.
i wish they had test a dual g4 1.42 with logic 5.5 in os9 and osx vs a p4 3.06 with logic 5.5 with no optimazations for any that would have been better.
personally I say get duals or nothing.
the dual 2GHZ would be my first choice and the dual 1.25 would be my second. (i still use OS9 every day along with osx for some select programs)
So it depends on what you will use it for.
there have been no tests between g3/g4 and i gather that since most 32bit software is not optimized to run on the G5 it will be seen as just a faster MHZ G4 to most programs.
everything Apple benchmarked was optimized. even with panther the G5 apps will still need to be recompiled. i believe logic, photoshop, mathmetical and most apple apps will be first and panther wont be out for a while. for most general non highband with things i believe the dual 1.25 will do better then the single G5, like mp3 ripping quicktime encoding, final cut pro, and osx in general will run faster with 2*1.25=2.50GHZ and 2*2L3 cache =4MB L3 cache.
also doing manythings at once will be much better on the dual. and remember you have to get at least the 1.8 @2399 model to get pcix and 8GB memory. and you give up 1 optical drive bay and 2 hard drive bays. and regardless of the bandwidth a cd or a dvd can only be read and burned to and from the drive so fast and sata drives are no faster then ata drives ati claims 8X agp is just for bragging as no cpu can saturate a 4X buss yet. remeber though 3d games and rendering type things where you walk away and come back should be better on the G5. i cant wait to see the duall 1.42 go up against the new G5. mac vs mac.
i suspect a lot of people will be suprized at how well the duals G4 does. they shouldnt though as software will take a while to be optimized for the G5.
That said . I want the dual 2GHZ G5

 

[daveg5]

overkill

i do much more then that on my old BWG3 oc@600 G4.
I suspect even the low end single G4s 1.0-1.25 at 1149 and 1299 will do you just find and all are upgradable, that said you shoul get a dual if at all possible 1.25 xtra for only $300 more is worth it. for game playing i think the G5 will be better for bandwith which is the G4+ main week point slow fps.

 

[daveg5]

get a dual

Originally posted by Dreamail

How about noise? The G5 promises to be a lot quieter than even the very latest G4s. If noisy equipment is a problem for you, then don't even consider a G4.
How about FireWire 800? If you crave for speedy external extensions, then forget the G4.
How about internal expanability with a second CD drive or 3 HDs. Not possible on the G5, so go with the G4.
How about 'future proofness'? If you want something that will last you the next 3 years relatively comfortably go with the G5 since it has all the latest tech like FireWire 800, USB 2, PCI-X, digital surround audio. There will be a time when the Mac OS requires a G5 as a minimum.

firewire 800 and usb cards are already avail for that extra pci slot on the G4, the g5 throttles back to 1.3GHZ when idle and gets noisier when really working but should be quieter than the g4's although apple has fix some of that maudio has the rev 7.1 24/192 card for$69.
the g5 may not be upgradable for years . just look at all the g4 upgrades not to mention moto says they will deliver a 2GHZ g4 by years end, but that is moto talking so maybe 2years. and sata drives have been provev not to be anyfaster then ata100/133 drives sometimes slower. but the cables are very small like an internal firewire no master slave junkand 17MBS more bandwith but the fastest sata drive the $150 36GB 10000 rpm WD Raptor only does 63 tops,

 

[pianojoe]

Go for the G5

Go for the small G5! Don't invest in being-phased-out tech.

The 1.6 G5 will have the biggest resale value if you should decide to get a faster machine in a year or two.

Performancewise you'll need everything you can afford, and for Audio, even if the apps are not G5izised, you'll notice a huge performance gain.

Remember that lately some apps showed up (iDVD, QT MPEG2 encoder) that required a G4 and wouldn't run on the G3. How long will it take that a cool reverb plug-in will require a G5?

 

[daveg5]

Re: Go for the G5

Originally posted by pianojoe
Go for the small G5! Don't invest in being-phased-out tech.

Dave:go for the phased out technology the dual 1.25 will have the best resale value os9 and osx and most upgrade options and has been proven not the first rev of the g4 yikes. the 1.6 g5 is have new , halve old pci 4 slots

The 1.6 G5 will have the biggest resale value if you should decide to get a faster machine in a year or two.

Dave: i doubt that 4 less ram slots no pcix one less cpu and these might not be upgradable if you outfit the 1.6 exactly like the 2GHZ dual the prices are even closer $2299 vs $2999 thats only $ $700 for pcix and a 4 total ghz 2*2 2*1GHZ bus as opposed to a lonely 1.6GHZ 800FSB and 4 extra ram slots. the dual will have the best resale value if both are equipped the same.

Performancewise you'll need everything you can afford, and for Audio, even if the apps are not G5izised, you'll notice a huge performance gain.

Dave : you will notice litlle if any gain with the 1.6 over the dual 1.25 at least until panther and apps are optimized for 64bit. you will notice the smoothness of duals right away in osx, and there are many apps optimized like logic. i suspect you will get more tracks with a dual g4 then a single 1.6 g5, but you may get more reverbs with the g5 memory bandwidth.

Remember that lately some apps showed up (iDVD, QT MPEG2 encoder) that required a G4 and wouldn't run on the G3. How long will it take that a cool reverb plug-in will require a G5?

Dave:both G4 and G5 have altivec no diff here.
the main diff in the g5 is bandwidth and 64bits and since the g5 runs both natively it will be a long time years before apple makes an app that 99.9%, 100% now can use only on a G5 powermac and no other mac. one reverb plug in does not require a g5 the logic test showed 100+tracks plus 5 reverbs on each track, i doubt if one reverb will ever need that much power by itself and if it did the program would be almost useless and wasteful

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by G3-Pwnz-G4
ok, so hang on a minute...the Geforce 3 is FASTER than a Geforce 4?????

now, am i the only one who thinks that is a tad backwards??

a 3 is faster then a 4mx, the 4 titanium is faster then the 3. Also the 5200fx card is low end like the mx series. I guess will have to wait for the machines. Apple was sorry in the technology overview only showing the top end card in the top end machine. Apple is allways pulling this crap with benches, why not just show all 3 machines and let the consumer choose Apple? so we have to wait till sept to get to the facts.