G5 2.5's lifespan is 2 years

keysersoze

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 6, 2004
1,596
8
NH
Appleinsider's newest post is fairly a recap of ThinkSecret's report about NAB and possible announcements, however the last paragraph is alarming:

"These liquid-cooling systems, which were designed by Delphi, manufactured in Mexico, and shipped to Apple's manufacturing facilities in Asia, have been the topic of concern at several Apple exec meetings.

According to reliable sources, Delphi only guarantees the cooling systems to Apple for a period of 2.5 years, though the expected life-span of each unit is rumored to be closer to 2 years. The lifespan is reportedly limited by potenial leakage of the thermal conductive fluid inside the systems. Apple reportedly fears the fluid could cause damage to consumer's valuables or expensive carpets, which would leave the company exposted to potential lawsuits."

www.appleinsider.com
 

psycho bob

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2003
638
6
Leeds, England
Guess I bet get the waterproof sheeting out! If this does turn out to be true it is one hell of an over sight on both Apple's and OEM's part.
Never mind not a lot I can do about it, I think applecare is a must have purchase before the year is out though.
 

pdpfilms

macrumors 68020
Jun 29, 2004
2,385
0
Vermontana
ouch. This is going to hurt real bad for all the 2.5 users. What's even more unfortunate is that they're the crowd who needs the computers most... those of us who work. I wonder what would cause the cooling systems to leak after two years, and not initially... Guess we'll have to see what happens.
 

psycho bob

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2003
638
6
Leeds, England
pdpfilms said:
ouch. This is going to hurt real bad for all the 2.5 users. What's even more unfortunate is that they're the crowd who needs the computers most... those of us who work. I wonder what would cause the cooling systems to leak after two years, and not initially... Guess we'll have to see what happens.
This will indeed hurt those that use them for work most. It could potentially spell big trouble for the freelancers and very small companies who cannot afford to either be without a desktop for a period of time or cannot fork out for a new model on a regular planned bassis.
By the sounds of it the liquid used may react with the copper pipes over time. This isn't that uncommon quite a lot of high end coolents have this effect. My Dad worked for the scientific division of the railways in the UK and collectively they saw some very nasty corrosive accidents and damage caused by these things.
If this is a genuine problem and they know what reaction takes place they can treat the problematic parts for future models that just leaves the models that are currently on sale or that have been sold at risk. I can see a big grey warranty hole opening up along the lines of although my mac is no longer covered this problem was created through a design fault so fix it. I think apple would probably agree to fix effected models, still a logistics nightmare though.
I suspect the problem will be exaccerbated by those that turn there machines off especially for extended periods of time as the coolent will not be moving.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
They should probably last longer than the cooling systems in cars, and those typically die due to hoses going bad far after 2.5 years -- and those hoses are in a worse environment than an air conditioned house/office.

As far as electrolysis corroding pipes, it happens in cars also -- but they are now grounding the heater cores and radiators to prevent this.

We may see Apple taking this route as a just in case.
 

TrashCanDan

macrumors member
Apr 1, 2005
83
0
Phoenix, AZ
I just read this as well and I was shocked. I bought my 2.5 a little over 3 months ago for my freelance work, thinking I would be set for a few years, now I read this and have to worry about my poor G5 leaking in a couple years! Why would Apple not give a warning on possible failure of the cooling system?

Man am I glad I got AppleCare.
 

link92

macrumors 6502
Aug 15, 2004
335
0
I am massively pissed off. This computer was meant to last for around 6/7 years.
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,650
28
USA
tech4all said:
What about liquid cooling systems in PCs? Do they suffer from this problem as well?
If this were true for the PowerMac G5, then it would most certainly be true for liquid-cooled PCs. Quite frankly, I have a hard time giving original Think Secret story any credibility. The PowerMac cooling system is based on automotive technology, but is used in a much less hostile environment. An automotive system lasts way beyond its first owner. I expect Delphi's computer cooling system to be going strong long after I have replaced my G5.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
Re: Two Year Lifespan



Apple is worried, because they don't have a third-party covering an expensive part for the entire AppleCare period.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
It's funny

I posted a thread asking about this very question when the 2.5s were announced. We have 3 of them at work...

My fears were pooh-poohed and many people mentioned the automotive comparison. Now, almost everyone's getting twitchy.

Honestly, I won't give this credence till I read something more substantial. Besides, realistically what choice do we have? Keep on using the machines till they drop dead or we come to our 3-4 year upgrade cycle.
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
1,657
0
Maryland
Eh, water-cooling is still relatively rare. If a problem did come up, it would have arised in some significant postings; either on legitimate hardware sites or your typical big-name news sites (Anandtech/Xbit/TechReport). Having said that, I only know of one guy (out of alot of people) who even dares to use water-cooling in his PC.

Yeah, companies like Swiftech released the first model just a year or so ago, but to say that it is even remotely widespread would be the a lie. People are still scared (heck, I still am). It also seems that b/c Apple focuses on ABSOLUTE quiet performance (while on the PC side, noise level varies considerably), the same problems might not even be applicable.

**
Now, its a while since I've seen pictures of the 2.5G5 cooling system, but if you want to make a comparison, compare it to a "typical" PC water cooling package, if you will:

(Swiftech Water cooling kit, review)
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njc5

(edit): Upon looking through some of the top OCers @ [H], another brand that is popular is "Danger Den". Again, my expertise is more with air cooling, but taking a few glances at this review, I don't believe that this is simliar to the G5 w/c system:
http://www.thecrucible.ca/reviews/dd_rbx/
 

toontra

macrumors 6502
Feb 6, 2003
261
0
London UK
This is precisely why I (and I suspect many others) skipped the 2.5 revision. It smacked of over-clocking, and (call me old-fashioned but) water and electricity never seemed like ideal partners, no matter how many reassurances you're given!

For the sake of those who bought, though, I hope this turns out to be untrue.
 

840quadra

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 1, 2005
8,091
3,383
Twin Cities Minnesota
I am not sure what they use for the liquid in this system.

But GM used Delphi for research on coolent systems, and with the "Dex-Cool" system, it has a long lifespan inside the vehicles.

I don't use, or have any GM cars, but my VW and Audi have what is called "G12" which is Glycol based, and is promised to last well over 100k Miles in normal use. It is formulated to be easy on the metals inside the cooling system, as well as the engine block.

If the coolent in the G5 is Glycol based, and similar to G12 , and or Dexcool, I would assume it would NOT hurt the metal parts that make up the cooling circuit.

Is there a way to "flush" the coolent inside the G5? I know it sounds strange, but it is the best way to get rid fo the acid that normally builds up in glycol based cooling systems..
 

FireArse

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2004
891
101
Leaking 2.5's

Blue Velvet said:
I posted a thread asking about this very question when the 2.5s were announced. We have 3 of them at work...

My fears were pooh-poohed and many people mentioned the automotive comparison. Now, almost everyone's getting twitchy.
You guys shouldn't be worried at all. I really think this is all FUD.

As a reliability Engineer for a well-known Networking company, the high standards set must be met by designs from OEM's AND internal Engineering projects.

The testing that is done on all the hardware will seriously shock you. google HALT & HASA. This cooling solution is not new. Apple Engineers & Execs would not release a unit which has an expected life time of 2.5 years when they know they may have to warranty it for 3years.

Reliability calculations on some units predict a figure of centuries for some units - no lie. Google MIL-217F. You 2.5 owners are safe.

FireArse
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
FireArse said:
You guys shouldn't be worried at all. I really think this is all FUD.

As a reliability Engineer for a well-known Networking company, the high standards set must be met by designs from OEM's AND internal Engineering projects.

The testing that is done on all the hardware will seriously shock you. google HALT & HASA. This cooling solution is not new. Apple Engineers & Execs would not release a unit which has an expected life time of 2.5 years when they know they may have to warranty it for 3years.

Reliability calculations on some units predict a figure of centuries for some units - no lie. Google MIL-217F. You 2.5 owners are safe.

FireArse

Thanks for the reassurance. Wouldn't hurt to take out AppleCare when they get past their one year's manufacturers guarantee, I guess. Especially as our crap maintanence contract wouldn't cover something like this...
 

Chaszmyr

macrumors 601
Aug 9, 2002
4,265
76
I'm pretty sure if there was a problem like this, Apple would have to cover it even if the computer's warranty was expired. (Much like when car companies issue recalls).
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,693
1
LaLaLand, CA
link92 said:
I am massively pissed off. This computer was meant to last for around 6/7 years.
If it's true... right now, this is all speculation. So far, I haven't heard of any problems, but it's still too soon to tell. I mean, look how long fridges work (alright, not the same thing, but still).

Either way, I'd buy AppleCare if you haven't yet.
 

Windowlicker

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2003
713
1
Finland
Is this information accurate? It sounds somewhat a suicide for Apple to include technology that's known to fail in just two years.

I don't believe this.
 

ManchesterTrix

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2005
324
0
This sounds fairly untrue. Let's see, according the story Apple put in a part that is only guaranteed for 2.5 years in a machine they will likely have to warranty for three(As Applecare is most commonly bought for the highend systems). And Delphi guaranteed a part for 2.5 years when they expect it to only last 2 years? Sorry, I just don't buy that, maybe a small percentage are expected to fail in two years but certainly not the average. If Delphi only expected it to last two years they would not guarantee it for any amount over that.