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G5 is MIPS processor!!!! Read NOW!!!!!!

I

iH8Quark

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 17, 2002
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Big Shoulders
:eek:

I think I have some proof that the G5 will be a MIPS processor! This is GREAT news!!! I can't believe that nobody thought of this!

MIPS Technologies Names Renowned Industry Veteran Keith Diefendorff Vice President of Product Strategy

Diefendorff brings to MIPS Technologies more than twenty years of microprocessor development experience at leading semiconductor companies such as Texas Instruments, AMD and Motorola. At Motorola Diefendorff was chief architect of the PowerPC....

From 1996 to 1998, Diefendorff was a distinguished scientist and the director of processor architecture and strategy at Apple Computer. At Apple he led the effort to define AltiVec, the multimedia vector instruction-set extension to PowerPC

MIPS Press Release

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! I'm so excited I'm going to wet my pants!!!! We're going to have super mega kick-@ss new processors!



:D :D :D :D :D
 
Just because they named him an exec now doesn't mean that they could have a chip ready to go that would work in the Apple's. There would have to be significant development time. When was he named VP?
 
The press release link you had there seems dead. (Sorry, I was slow on the uptake)

Hey, maybe MIPS, Apple and NVidea are all working together to come up with the mysterious "device" -- maybe a new graphics card or maybe it's the new Apple/Sony/NVidea/MIPS Playstation 3?

Most likely MIPS just cherry picked an exec with experience and connections.
 
okay, go with me on this one. Steve owns Pixar, and they use predominantly SGI machines. They have MIPS processors. I'm sure Steve would like them to use Macs but, hey, they're just not fast enough. That's just a tad humbling, I'm sure. But, they're both RISC processors, so why not try to integrate AltiVec into the MIPS processor. You've seen the SETI benchmarks, the MIPS processor outguns everyhting. So why not drop the MIPS with AltiVec into the new PowerMac, and BAM! Instant pro machine capable of producing just about anything.

Who likes IRIX? It's really unfriendly. And Motorola is dragging, and laying off people, so why not go with what's working. AMD licensed MIPS technology for their 64-bit chip. So why can't Apple? Steve knows what's up.

It should at least open up some intresting conversation. We can dream...:cool:
 
Originally posted by iH8Quark
okay, go with me on this one.

...

It should at least open up some intresting conversation. We can dream...:cool:
Click to expand...

Its entertaining, I'll go with you on that one. But wouldn't this require that all apps be remade for the new processor? After just going through the OSX update and then have to turn around and do another revision just to get up to speed with another new processor just doesn't make sense. Unless they can run all the software in emulation at first and still smoke the competition. I'll admit I'm not up to speed on this, so I could be wrong. Someone out there should know, so post soon.

Thanks
 
Apple works R&D at least 4 years in advance.

So look further back to get more clues. There's a lot we don't know about Darwin...... perhaps we're all ready for it.........:eek: :cool: :D

It would certainly explain the lack of faster upgrades if Apple's looking at a new architecture.......
 
Do you know that every time I read about the people waiting for the G5, reminds me that we have been waiting 3 years for the president of my country to resign or the military to kill him (what ever comes first, right now he deserves the secund option).

Every time an Apple even comes up is just like when we say "now he has to leave!".

The G5 will come, will come. I hope this gouverment falls first so I can work and have enough money to get one.

What reminds me... becarefull with the first G5 Powermac, because, Apple knows every body is waiting for it and may come with a lack of fetures, may be 2 PCI slots or things like that (I know I'm exagerating but who knows).
 
Originally posted by iH8Quark
okay, go with me on this one. Steve owns Pixar, and they use predominantly SGI machines. They have MIPS processors. I'm sure Steve would like them to use Macs but, hey, they're just not fast enough. That's just a tad humbling, I'm sure. But, they're both RISC processors, so why not try to integrate AltiVec into the MIPS processor. You've seen the SETI benchmarks, the MIPS processor outguns everyhting.
Click to expand...

SETI@home is no more of a benchmark than Photoshop is. I like MIPS a lot, it's great and low-power, but the non-embedded MIPS CPUs are dying. They're up to 500MHz I believe, and they do surprisingly well at that speed, but nobody really expects them to catch up and return to their former glory. Are you saying Apple should port over to MIPS just because Jobs wants Pixar to use Macs?
So why not drop the MIPS with AltiVec into the new PowerMac, and BAM! Instant pro machine capable of producing just about anything.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Every single OS X app would have to be ported and/or recompiled, as would OS X itself. Classic apps would no longer work (without even more layers of emulation, and then they'd be dead slow.) Apple would be embracing an architecture that's in even more trouble than PPC.
Who likes IRIX? It's really unfriendly.
Click to expand...

IRIX isn't exactly an OS for grandma. It's an OS for high-end graphics and scientific workstations and for very high performance servers. It also pisses all over OS X in terms of performance and capability in the field in which it is intended to compete.
And Motorola is dragging, and laying off people, so why not go with what's working. AMD licensed MIPS technology for their 64-bit chip. So why can't Apple? Steve knows what's up.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure this is either inaccurate or misleading. This is like saying "let's dump our current troubled architecture and spend a huge amount of time, money, and effort embracing a different troubled architecture." I agree that it's fun to think about, but so is all fantasy. :)

Alex
 
Re: G5 is MIPS processor!!!! Read NOW!!!!!!

Originally posted by iH8Quark
I think I have some proof that the G5 will be a MIPS processor! This is GREAT news!!! I can't believe that nobody thought of this!

....

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! I'm so excited I'm going to wet my pants!!!! We're going to have super mega kick-@ss new processors!

:D :D :D :D :D
Click to expand...
I would just like to add that this is like saying because MIPS has hired a person who used to be a hot dog vendor, MIPS is going to be coming out with a line of kick-ass hot dogs.
 
Well when quatum computers become all the rage, that will be cool!



Ok, that statement above is about as relevant to MIPS processors and Apple. This is all speculation, so everyone is wondering what Apple is going to pull out of the hat in the next couple of months, maybe longer. If we speculate enough, we're bound to get at least a few things right......


:D
 
I'm going with mischief on this one...

who's to say that Apple didn't plan to make this move? they could have very well planned OS X to run on MIPS and all of this G4 cr@p is just an aversion...untill they blow us away with something that'll put the G4 to shame...

Motorola doesn't seem to be making much progress for Apple...so it's about damned time we see something significant happen! ;)
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart
Motorola doesn't seem to be making much progress for Apple...so it's about damned time we see something significant happen! ;)
Click to expand...

Absolutely. But think of all the press - Apple comes out with a new AltiVec MIPS processor running at 500MHz

Mega Hertz myth! Ha! I think its going to be something else, but I do agree Motorola has been doing anything for Apple. I'm more inclined to believe that IBM will have a bigger part to play considering they won't be providing Apple with any chips soon if the iBook gets a G4. That would only leave the 15" CRT iMac. Nope, to keep IBM in the game, thats what's going to happen.
 
I'd be willing to be the next iBook is going to sport a G4...it wouldn't surprise me anyway...

so what if Apple slowly made the move to MIPS while keeping the G4 in the lower end such as the eMac....iMac...iBook?

I also believed that IBM would play a major role in all of this....but after mischief's idea....it made more sense ;)
 
I have to retort to alex_ant here. If MIPS is failing, then why did AMD license the technology for their 64-bit processor. That makes no sense.

Also, It wouldn't be that hard to port Mac apps to MIPS. I'm not even so sure there would be any "porting" to do at all. Both the processors are RISC processors, so they are fundamentally the same.

Here's an exemple of why I know this to be true. If you buy an Ice rendering board from Media 100, it ships with 8 MIPS processors. AND it runs perfectly with After Effects on OS 9 AND OS X. Just plug it in the PCI slot. It would be an impossibility to stick 8 pentiums on a board, plug it up to a Mac and have them capable of executing Mac instructions.
 
Originally posted by iH8Quark
I have to retort to alex_ant here. If MIPS is failing, then why did AMD license the technology for their 64-bit processor. That makes no sense.
Click to expand...

From extremetech.com:
AMD, Sunnyvale, Calif. said it will license the MIPS64 architecture for an undisclosed period of time, allowing the processor company a growth path for embedded devices. AMD already owns a 32-bit MIPS license through the Alchemy Semiconductor design group AMD acquired in February.

AMD did not disclose any details about what it plans to do with the license, although AMD currently has set its Alchemy team the task of not enhancing its Au-class embedded processors, but also to develop them for PDAs, set-top boxes, and other "personal computing" devices. In some sense, the Alchemy MIPS license is AMD's response to the Intel StrongARM and Xscale embedded processors.
Click to expand...
So AMD licensed an embedded architecture. MIPS is not failing - they're doing very well. It is the high-end workstation/server MIPS CPUs that are failing. MIPS is predominantly embedded at the moment. Low-power MIPS CPUs are being used in the Playstation2, lots of PDAs, I think DirecTV boxes... and much more. The only company that uses the high-performance, high-end MIPS processors is SGI, and they only comprise a couple percent (or so) of MIPS's market share.
Also, It wouldn't be that hard to port Mac apps to MIPS. I'm not even so sure there would be any "porting" to do at all. Both the processors are RISC processors, so they are fundamentally the same.
Click to expand...

You are very wrong here. "RISC" defines a processor whose guiding principle is a small instruction set. It's a subjective term and it has nothing to do with code portability. PPC code would most definitely need to be at the very least recompiled to run on MIPS. In many cases it would need to be partially re-written. Apple would also be throwing out all the enhancements they made to GCC for PPC. They would have to either start work on the MIPS branch of GCC, or else license SGI's MIPS compiler somehow...
Here's an exemple of why I know this to be true. If you buy an Ice rendering board from Media 100, it ships with 8 MIPS processors. AND it runs perfectly with After Effects on OS 9 AND OS X. Just plug it in the PCI slot. It would be an impossibility to stick 8 pentiums on a board, plug it up to a Mac and have them capable of executing Mac instructions.
Click to expand...
This board you speak of I'm assuming allows software to offload computation from the CPU onto dedicated processors on this PCI card. It does not execute any code itself - After Effects is still running on the PPC inside the Mac and on nothing else. The CPUs on this board could be Pentiums or anything else - this company probably only used MIPS because it was the best choice for what they needed the thing to do. This board also has to use custom drivers, and contains custom logic for interfacing with the host. It cannot execute PPC code any more than an AMD Athlon can.

Alex
 
Apple & SGI sitting in a tree...k-i-s-s-i-n-g

You all recall that SGI very nearly migrated to Intel's new Itanium (or whatever flavor) but then pulled back because Intel's horse couldn't make it around the track fast enough? There were also rumors last Nov/Dec (?) that SGI was considered the much rumored G5.

As I understand it, SGI is losing market share in all of its market segments. SGI designs its own semiconductors and outsources production.

Remember that so-called option that Apple has to buy-out Motorola from AIM? Supposedly this implies that Apple would require the relevant intellectual capital.

SGI is likely finding it more and more painful to retain semiconductor in-house. Truthfully, I don't know how much they might be making on these low-end embedded versions.

Apple generates more semiconductor volume than does SGI, anyway you cut it. However, Apple does not generate enough volume to drive Motorola to a product life cycle comparable to that of Intel and AMD.

Apple has been rumored to be considering in-sourcing the design of its CPU's for over a year. On the other hand, IBM seems to be singing a different tune these days by working more closely with its customers in semiconductor design (the deal with Sony and ???).

Anyway, it is POSSIBLE that Apple and SGI might embrace a strategic relationship sometimes called co-opetition. However, given Apple's highly probably targeting of SGI's highest margin market segments, I'm not sure SGI would want to lend credence to an Apple challenge on SGI's surf by using similar/identical semiconductors.

Conclusion? Nothing really. I might as well pick the hairs from my ass because Apple is too damned tight lipped about their semiconductor strategy.

As far as I am concerned, we don't know ****!!! We can speculate adnauseum regarding all these miniscule tidbits of rumor. Frankly, I think this guy going over to SGI or MIPS means nothing. We've been experiencing a crunch in the high tech center for quite some time now. Many formerly high-flying firms have laid off many, including myself. This guy is most likely looking for greener pasteurs.

Don't get me wrong, I am not ruling out a strategic partnership in absolute terms. I'm just saying that no one has surfaced any weighty evidence; nothing but fluff.

I don't think we'll see the G5 at WWDC or any other major PowerMac upgrade. The most we could possibly hope for is a little telegraphing to the developers that someday, around ???, 64 bit code will be executable.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if the G5 or MOBO'd G4 were ready for MWNY that Apple would instead announce it earlier but after WWDC.

Apple has staked a claim on Wall Street that it is one of the few prospering computer makers. Hence, Apple is more motivated than usual to throttle its earnings up. That means, it would be in its best interests to curb the usual sales (volume may increase but margin decreases a lot) drop-off that precedes a MacWorld by one to two months. This might just be something worthwhile to SJ to pass on his usual MW showmanship if he believes that doing so would notably increase year-end earnings. As usual, too many unknowns to say anything worth betting on. Apple doesn't need an MW to generate the publicity it desires. It can do so through media manipulation, as it has proved quite capable of doing effectively. We're the kindling wood that helps him build a publicity fire. A few hints and slips dropped here and there would set us off and then the publications. THIS IS NOT A PREDICTION; it is just another perspective to bear in mind.

Eirik
 
Re: Apple & SGI sitting in a tree...k-i-s-s-i-n-g

Originally posted by eirik
As I understand it, SGI is losing market share in all of its market segments. SGI designs its own semiconductors and outsources production.

Remember that so-called option that Apple has to buy-out Motorola from AIM? Supposedly this implies that Apple would require the relevant intellectual capital.

SGI is likely finding it more and more painful to retain semiconductor in-house. Truthfully, I don't know how much they might be making on these low-end embedded versions.
Click to expand...

MIPS used to be a wholly-owned subsidiary of SGI. It was spun off a few years ago, though - it's independent now. Embedded processors are by far its largest market. And it is a very very big market - MIPS is actually, in terms of volume, the largest CPU maker, even bigger (much bigger) than Intel. (Although MIPS does outsource all [?] of its production to companies like Toshiba, NEC, LSI Logic, Samsung, etc.) You may be right that SGI designs its own CPUs (I'm not sure - I know they designed the R8000 in the early '90s). If this is the case, though, why are they called MIPS? Does MIPS license the SGI tech? I was under the impression that SGI, like Apple, was really not large enough to design its own chips.
Anyway, it is POSSIBLE that Apple and SGI might embrace a strategic relationship sometimes called co-opetition. However, given Apple's highly probably targeting of SGI's highest margin market segments, I'm not sure SGI would want to lend credence to an Apple challenge on SGI's surf by using similar/identical semiconductors.
Click to expand...

Aren't SGI's highest margin market segments the high-high-end graphics and scientific computing niches? SGI's least expensive MIPS computer costs over $5k last time I heard. SGI's systems start getting really nice at around $20k, and from there, they go all the way into the millions... not really competitive with Apple systems. (Or maybe I'm way out of touch. :))

What continues to intrigue me is that macosrumors.com rumor that SGI was porting IRIX 7 to PPC. No company in its right mind would embrace the Motorola PPC in a high-end workstation/server... which leaves IBM. If Apple and SGI could pair up and motivate IBM to crank out some suitable PPCs or PPC-like chips, that could be really cool, and it would actually make sense...

I'll bet Steve Jobs is reading this thread and laughing his balls off.

Alex
 
SGI and MIPS

As I feared, my knowledge of SGI is out of date.

As for targeting SGI's highest margin markets, I do believe that Apple intends to do just that, which means even higher-end PowerMacs and rendering farms (racks).

BTW, I believe Motorola holds the current title for largest volume of CPU's (vast majority embedded of course). I didn't realize the MIPS was so large. They're not just licensing technology? They're actually MIPS silicon?

I know that Cisco has used a lot of MIPS processors but that they've been moving to PowerPC for the last year or so. I don't mean to say they're doing so across the board however.

Well, I'm plucking hair out of my ass again. I really should try to find some facts on industry production and vendor/OEM figures. Anybody know of a good public source? I no longer have access to the market research resources that I used to.

Cheers,

Eirik
 
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