G5 Specs for WWDC!

[neonart]

People have made these assumptions before, sometimes it means something, often it does not.

What I would love to see (but don't really think will happen) is a Daul Processor series (2.4, 2.8, 3.0) and a Single Processor series (1.6, 1.8, 2.0).
Apple could take advantage of the single processor and come out with a different form factor. Basically a mini-tower with room for two HD's and one optical drive and only four RAM slots on the motherboard. That would be cool. If a Dual 2.4 is $1999, what would a single 1.6 in a smaller case cost

It won't happen, but it would be cool.

Your post made me happy inside. Then sad.

HOW FREAKIN COOL would it be if there was a single 2.0 mini tower just like you described!? *sigh* Oh well, we know it probably wont happen.

 

[gerardrj]

What I would love to see (but don't really think will happen) is a Daul Processor series (2.4, 2.8, 3.0) and a Single Processor series (1.6, 1.8, 2.0).
Apple could take advantage of the single processor and come out with a different form factor. Basically a mini-tower with room for two HD's and one optical drive and only four RAM slots on the motherboard. That would be cool. If a Dual 2.4 is $1999, what would a single 1.6 in a smaller case cost

So we want to start back down the road to the Scully/Spindler/Amelio days?
Remember those... There were 20 models of Macintosh computer so similar to each other yet so different. No one model contained everything a consumer wanted and so almost every model was a compromise. Apple was going in so many directions that they failed at most of them?

While I personally would like to purchase a model like the PowerMac LC, I just can't come up with a business case for it.

The home user and business desktop market is served nicely by the e and i Mac models, the power user is served nicely by the PowerMac.
Other than a removable/replaceable display, what does the i/eMac lack for use on the corporate desktop? It's got fast wired and wireless networking, more processor, HD and RAM than a word processor and email program should need. Bluetooth, Firewire, USB, CDRW... what else does a business desktop need that would be provided by an LC model?

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

This is why apple should have a model you configure for yourself not apple telling you what you have to buy in order to get this or that. Pc makers have done it for years and own the market, apple has forced models on the consumer for years and in essence now have a solid 2% of new sales. Its past time to have a Mac that you can get with whatever video CARD you want, the CPU you want and a few otherthings. will Apple ever get this?

 

[DavidCar]

More FireGL Questions

Thanks to Thatwendigo for the insight into FireGL.

The implication to me is that an AGP FireGL card for a Mac must be either a significant development effort, or has insufficient demand, otherwise I would expect we would have seen one by now.

But if it is a significant development effort, then it might make sense to develop the Mac card for a next generation PC-Express interface. But then how much more expensive would the rumored new PowerMacs have to be to keep a "legacy" AGP bus to be compatible for the rest of us? Maybe I don't understand all the economic tradeoffs.

So I am still undecided if this rumor makes sense.

But, FWIW, I still expect to hear about a Power5 based 3Ghz PowerPC chip in a new Mac at WWDC, even if shipment is not expected for a while.

 

[maverick13]

Please don't write complete bul****

Well let's hope they make the prices $1499, $1999, and $2499 at the absolute max. Even then they'd be very pricey and not likely to spur sales. So of course that means Apple will prices them drastically more expensive. dual 3 GHZ. Sorry, but a 50% increase in a year is still just ho-hum, and does not justify a price increase, especially since the G5 was not the PC killer it was supposed to be. Even at 3 GHz, it will lag PCs on quite a few benchmarks. Looks like it's out of the frying pan, into the fire with the jump from Motorola to IBM.

???


Are you living in a fantastic world? Please don't say things like this if you don't have a clue.
The PowerPC 970 at 2.0GHz provides approximately 4.5Gigaflops
The Opteron 2GHz provides 2.8Gigagaflops
The Xeon 3.05GHz provides 3.9Gigaflops
and The Itanium 2 1.5Ghz provides 4.4 Gigaflops

So please when taking abouit performance comparission provide some back up and don't state things like this because they fit nicely in your 'little' mind.

Maverick

 

[dopefiend]

So please when taking abouit performance comparission provide some back up and don't state things like this because they fit nicely in your 'little' mind.

Maverick

I find it funny that you say provide some back up and don't supply a llnk to where you grabbed those numbers from

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

So, bottom line: could I expect to order a Dual 1.8 GHz Powermac G5 for $1599 (the current educational price for the 1.6 GHz system) on July 2nd?

 

[maverick13]

I find it funny that you say provide some back up and don't supply a llnk to where you grabbed those numbers from

The number came from memory but through a quick search in the net i found
these two urls as references.

http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/CPUs.html
http://www.apple.com/xserve/

 

[adamjay]

So, bottom line: could I expect to order a Dual 1.8 GHz Powermac G5 for $1599 (the current educational price for the 1.6 GHz system) on July 2nd?

i would imagine so... considering the refurb 1.8's are $1999... a new model in the mid 2.?ghz range should certainly push that price down.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

So we want to start back down the road to the Scully/Spindler/Amelio days?
Remember those... There were 20 models of Macintosh computer so similar to each other yet so different. No one model contained everything a consumer wanted and so almost every model was a compromise. Apple was going in so many directions that they failed at most of them?

While I personally would like to purchase a model like the PowerMac LC, I just can't come up with a business case for it.

The home user and business desktop market is served nicely by the e and i Mac models, the power user is served nicely by the PowerMac.
Other than a removable/replaceable display, what does the i/eMac lack for use on the corporate desktop? It's got fast wired and wireless networking, more processor, HD and RAM than a word processor and email program should need. Bluetooth, Firewire, USB, CDRW... what else does a business desktop need that would be provided by an LC model?

Well, the first problem the post was about what I would like, not what will happen of what is best for Apple.

However, I think Apple could handle a bit more choice. There are five current pre-configured options for the PowerBook and that seems to be selling well. There is talk of a fourth option for the iBook. That is nine pre-built notebooks. If you look at the iMac and eMac as a single "all-in-one" line of Macs there are five choices. You don't think that the PowerMac line could support more than three preconfigured options.

 

[adamjay]

This is why apple should have a model you configure for yourself not apple telling you what you have to buy in order to get this or that. Pc makers have done it for years and own the market, apple has forced models on the consumer for years and in essence now have a solid 2% of new sales. Its past time to have a Mac that you can get with whatever video CARD you want, the CPU you want and a few otherthings. will Apple ever get this?

the last i checked, you could get Apple to build a machine to your configuration.
for the most part.. the specs on Apple products are options... you can generally upgrade or downgrade. You want a 15" PB with a superdrive, but cant afford the 1.5ghz model... fine, you can add a superdrive to the 1.33ghz model. Or, if you want a 1.5ghz 15" PB but with a combo drive, well for $200 less you can have the combo drive.

in fact superdrives are optional on all machines. The G5's have an option to remove the 56k modem. Ram, HD, Video Card... all customizable on the G5's on EVERY model available (though i wouldnt dare buy additional ram from apple).. but you arent forced into bluetooth or airport extreme either... they are OPTIONS.

Compare the configurabilty of a purchase on dell.com or hp.com to apple.com and they are pretty much the same. So, i can't really see how you can say that the PC Market has an edge in making their machines more customizable, because they simply aren't.

 

[neonart]

the last i checked, you could get Apple to build a machine to your configuration.
for the most part.. the specs on Apple products are options... you can generally upgrade or downgrade. You want a 15" PB with a superdrive, but cant afford the 1.5ghz model... fine, you can add a superdrive to the 1.33ghz model. Or, if you want a 1.5ghz 15" PB but with a combo drive, well for $200 less you can have the combo drive.

in fact superdrives are optional on all machines. The G5's have an option to remove the 56k modem. Ram, HD, Video Card... all customizable on the G5's on EVERY model available (though i wouldnt dare buy additional ram from apple).. but you arent forced into bluetooth or airport extreme either... they are OPTIONS.

Compare the configurabilty of a purchase on dell.com or hp.com to apple.com and they are pretty much the same. So, i can't really see how you can say that the PC Market has an edge in making their machines more customizable, because they simply aren't.

Yes, and no.

Try to configure a Dual 2Ghz with 256MB of RAM, an 80GB HD, an FX5200, and a Combo Drive. If this was possible this Dual 2Ghz full retail would be $2499. But that won't happen. With Apple you can only downgrade one or two options.

Some people would like to get the best of what is hard to upgrade and deduct the stuff you can do yourself later whenever you feel like it or have the funds.

 

[gopher]

???


Are you living in a fantastic world? Please don't say things like this if you don't have a clue.
The PowerPC 970 at 2.0GHz provides approximately 4.5Gigaflops
The Opteron 2GHz provides 2.8Gigagaflops
The Xeon 3.05GHz provides 3.9Gigaflops
and The Itanium 2 1.5Ghz provides 4.4 Gigaflops

So please when taking abouit performance comparission provide some back up and don't state things like this because they fit nicely in your 'little' mind.

Maverick

Only 4.5 Gigaflops?

Try Thirty!

http://translate.google.com/transla...prev=/search?q=g5+gigaflop&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

 

[ethernet76]

Are you new to the discussion? If you look back through some of these posts you'll find the evidence and mention from IBM sources that they delays in the 970fx have nothing to do with the 975. The 975 is Power5 derived and was designed at the same time as the Power5. Judging by these facts and some basic extrapolation of claims Jobs and IBM made last year and earlier this year, the 975 will be out no later than september at 3 GHz.

It's actually a pretty obvious prediciton. As with any prediction it may turn out to be untrue, but it's far more likely than any other scenario at this point given the information at hand. That is why I tend to believe these specs are close to accurate (if not spot-on). In fact, it may be they made them up... but it wouldn't change the (seemningly) obvious.

One year ago when the specs for the G5 were leaked (by MacBidouille and then confirmed by Apple) there were a lot of people on this board claiming there was NO WAY they were accurate. They kicked and screamed that the specs for the memory and bus speed were pure fabrication and that they doubted the 2GHz model would happen. Well, they were wrong...

I guess we'll wait and see, but I do expect a 3GHz G5 sometime this summer. The shoe just seems to fit.

I've been reading this site for two years now, and I haven't seen a reliable rumor reguarding any 975 processor. IBM would have had developer notes or press conference as Apple is not the only one using the 9xx PPC line.

I don't believe that IBM would do something as foolish as concentrate resources on a 975 when they're having yeild issues with the 970fx, the processor most likely to be modified and used in the up coming xBox 2*.

*The 980 series is suppose to be the move from Power4 to Power5. While this site posted a rumor - July 6 - stating the 980 was at least a year away, and was being developed along side the Power5 series. This rumor also said G5s would be in Powerbooks by now.

The road map on IBM.com also shows that IBM prefers adding on suffixes to chip names while using the same number. As seen in the G3. This makes me highly sceptical of a 975. It doesn't fit the IBM naming scheme. It is my believe they'd jump to 980 or change fx to gx like with the G3 750 series.

Fire GL, double-layer DVD burners, and whatever else was in that post are not technologies people would use. They would add thousands on to the price of the high-ended system and would be utilized by a select few. Wouldn't a 6-in-1 media reader option be a much better option than a graphics card used mainly for CAD?

While I hope that the G5 can muster 3 ghz I don't believe the data IBM has provided supports that claim. The 2 ghz fx uses 24.5 watts of power. The 1.4 ghz fx uses half of that. Borrowing fuzz math from G.W.(satan), I think the fx could go no higher than 2.6 ghz even with it's 20 C higher opperating temperature than the 970.

I'd also like to point out the rampant over expectation that frequents this site. Last year's forums concerning WWDC had extreme speculation that Apple was releasing a two button mouse because some iBooks in the main area had two-button, usb mice. Some also predicted speeds of 2.5 ghz+ until the specs were accidently leaked on Apple's online store.

If there is one thing this site has taught me it is this: Expecting the moon will only result in dissapointment. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than bummed because the 20000000 ghz G5s only turned out to be 2.5.

(If you use google you can find all the information provided in this post. No rumors were used except where noted. *indicates a rumor)

Edited for style and such. Replies can be private messaged to me directly.

 

[Mav451]

You are indeed right on the dual-layer drives. The PC world, I believe only has a single adopter of the dual-layer technology as of yet...so if Apple were to release that, I can only imagine the prices would be positively exorbitant (as if PMacs needed to be any more expensive *_*).

*There are rumors, on certain DVD forums (yes they exist ) that perhaps a firmware update, for the latest 8x DVD+/-RW drives would enable such technology in the existing drives out in the market today.

 

[Rower_CPU]

LaCie 8x dual-layer drive - $239

If this pricing remains typical for dual layer drives, it's not out of the question for them to be affordable in new G5 revs - especially as this is an external, which tend to be pricier.

 

[Mav451]

LaCie 8x dual-layer drive - $239

If this pricing remains typical for dual layer drives, it's not out of the question for them to be affordable in new G5 revs - especially as this is an external, which tend to be pricier.

Hmm...not too bad actually. Ok, I stand corrected.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Hmm...not too bad actually. Ok, I stand corrected.

Yeah, I was pretty impressed to see this on the market already at such a great price. Here's hoping for some great competition as other manufacturers jump on board.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

the last i checked, you could get Apple to build a machine to your configuration.
for the most part.. the specs on Apple products are options... you can generally upgrade or downgrade. You want a 15" PB with a superdrive, but cant afford the 1.5ghz model... fine, you can add a superdrive to the 1.33ghz model. Or, if you want a 1.5ghz 15" PB but with a combo drive, well for $200 less you can have the combo drive.

in fact superdrives are optional on all machines. The G5's have an option to remove the 56k modem. Ram, HD, Video Card... all customizable on the G5's on EVERY model available (though i wouldnt dare buy additional ram from apple).. but you arent forced into bluetooth or airport extreme either... they are OPTIONS.

Your overall point is very good, but Apple doesn't have as much customization as you imply. All the PowerBooks now come with AE built-in. There is no BTO option to get it without and save $50 or whatever it costs. Similarly, with the 17" PB you cannot "downgrade" the optical drive to a combo. The 12" iBook also has no Superdrive option.

Additionally, the iMac which is at the top of Apple's so-called consumer line, lacks any option on the optical drive at all. The 15" comes with a combo-drive and the 15" and 17" come with a Superdrive. The eMac basically comes in just two choices, combo and Superdrive. You can increase the RAM and HD, but you cannot get 40 GB HD and a Superdrive while you can go as high as 160 GB on the combodrive model.

Compare the configurabilty of a purchase on dell.com or hp.com to apple.com and they are pretty much the same. So, i can't really see how you can say that the PC Market has an edge in making their machines more customizable, because they simply aren't.

I totally agree that once you take a PC and add on options until you match a Mac you get about the same for your money (especially when you take into account the iApps that ship with every Mac). I think what people would like to see is a lower priced starting point. Earlier, I suggested a G5 SP line in a smaller case (since there would be only one chip to cool). I think for $1500, a lot of people would buy a Single Processor 2.0 GHz G5 that had a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200, 256 MB of RAM (expandable to 4 GB) and a couple of PCI slots. What's more if Apple does make the top of the line PowerMac a Dual 3 GHz for $3000, how would my SP 2.0 GHz machine's price not be realistic?

 

[Mav451]

at a second glance, I'm not too sure that Lacie is doing "Dual Layer" as in DVD+R DL, as mentioned in this earlier Anandtech article:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.html?i=2045

I believe the Dual is referring to +R and -R formats, not necessarily dual layer.

"...The universal LaCie Dual DVD±RW Drive combines DVD+RW and DVD-RW formats, eliminating the need to choose one DVD format over another..."

 

[Mav451]

(sorry double post)

 

[Pegano]

Though I know many of you mac-heads would scoff at what I am about to say in disgust, I shall proceed. What about releasing a midrange model but as a single processor? Not many apps really take full advantage of the two processors and the price could be much lower. Plus, what I'm really looking forward to is dual cores, but now I'm getting ahead of myself. Out.

 

[dongmin]

So we want to start back down the road to the Scully/Spindler/Amelio days?
Remember those... There were 20 models of Macintosh computer so similar to each other yet so different. No one model contained everything a consumer wanted and so almost every model was a compromise. Apple was going in so many directions that they failed at most of them?

What about the Cube? Yeah it was a flop at the stores, but it was a damn sweet little machine, just a little overpriced. If they can figure out a way to shoehorn a single G5 into the Cube, and price it at 60% of the G5s, I think we have a winner.

e.g.
single 1.8 ghz G5 Cube $1099
single 2.2 ghz G5 Cube $1499

the full gamut:
single 1.25 ghz G4 eMac $699
single 1.5 ghz G4 eMac $899
single 1.8 ghz G5 Cube $1099
single 1.8 ghz G5 iMac 15" $1299
single 2.2 ghz G5 Cube $1499
single 2.0 ghz G5 iMac 17" $1699
dual 2.0 ghz G5 Tower $1799
single 2.2 ghz G5 iMac 20" $1999
dual 2.4 ghz G5 Tower $2499
dual 3.0 ghz G5 Tower $3199

This way, you're essentially dividing the market into three segments: entry-level, prosumer, and professional. And the prosumer levels is divided into two categories: all-in-one or cpu only. If Apple can market these categories clearly, then I think the proliferation of models can work. The 4 PCI slots, 4 HD bays, and extra optical bay should be enough to distinguish the towers from the prosumer range. The prosumer range could distinguish itself from the entry-level by including some decent audio in/outs and things like bluetooth and wireless keyboard/mouse included.

 

[SyndicateX]

I don't believe that IBM would do something as foolish as concentrate resources on a 975 when they're having yeild issues with the 970fx, the processor most likely to be modified and used in the up coming xBox 2*.

However, if Apple and IBM have been jointly working on the POWER5/Apple derivative, considering the POWER5 is IBM's chip of the future and the 970fx is mainly only for use in the Xserve's thus far. The Xbox2 has not announced that they will be using a 970fx, just that it would be a PPC based processor.

Fire GL, double-layer DVD burners, and whatever else was in that post are not technologies people would use. They would add thousands on to the price of the high-ended system and would be utilized by a select few. Wouldn't a 6-in-1 media reader option be a much better option than a graphics card used mainly for CAD?

These upgrades do not necessicarilly mean they have to be in EVERY upcoming powermac. Say you could still buy a dual 3ghz G5 with the exact same options as they currently offer? Now say a video editing pro goes and completely loads it up, Fire GL / dual layer DVD would help Apple to fill the only huge void people see with their hardware...that PC counterparts can have more advanced graphics / options. (As for Dual Layer DVD...see down further....

While I hope that the G5 can muster 3 ghz I don't believe the data IBM has provided supports that claim. The 2 ghz fx uses 24.5 watts of power. The 1.4 ghz fx uses half of that. Borrowing fuzz math from G.W.(satan), I think the fx could go no higher than 2.6 ghz even with it's 20 C higher opperating temperature than the 970.

I agree. The entire 970 platform is not designed to exceed about 2.8ghz. Although in small quanities it has surpassed them, it is by no means a production possibility for 3.0ghz. Thats why so much speculation has shifted to the 975/980/9xx, whatever they call it. It has been documented (not only on rumor sites, but by people interviewing IBM/Apple execs...) that Apple is developing their PPC platform in parallel with IBM's POWER chips, although they may not be exactly on time, with the release of the POWER5 a few months ago, speculation would lead you to incur that Steve Jobs has been working on the 9xx since the release of the initial 970.

You are indeed right on the dual-layer drives. The PC world, I believe only has a single adopter of the dual-layer technology as of yet...so if Apple were to release that, I can only imagine the prices would be positively exorbitant (as if PMacs needed to be any more expensive *_*).

*There are rumors, on certain DVD forums (yes they exist ) that perhaps a firmware update, for the latest 8x DVD+/-RW drives would enable such technology in the existing drives out in the market today.

Aaah...didnt see your lower post earlier on, but that is specifically what I was going to add. Along with the 239$ drive listed above, Sonys drive is shipping for 199$ with dual support +-rw and everything else. 199$ cant be too much more than Apple currently buys their drives for. But, if the A04?! can support dual layer with just a firmware / hardware update, then it costs apple almost nothing to upgrade to the most current hardware available, while costing the consumer nothing.

ill post links later, but sonystyle.com is currently down and Im running out the door.....

 

[ethernet76]

However, if Apple and IBM have been jointly working on the POWER5/Apple derivative, considering the POWER5 is IBM's chip of the future and the 970fx is mainly only for use in the Xserve's thus far. The Xbox2 has not announced that they will be using a 970fx, just that it would be a PPC based processor.

Microsoft has stated that they well be using an IBM processor. This along with the emergence of the xBox2 developers kits which runs on a G5 is proof enough I believe.

These upgrades do not necessicarilly mean they have to be in EVERY upcoming powermac. Say you could still buy a dual 3ghz G5 with the exact same options as they currently offer? Now say a video editing pro goes and completely loads it up, Fire GL / dual layer DVD would help Apple to fill the only huge void people see with their hardware...that PC counterparts can have more advanced graphics / options. (As for Dual Layer DVD...see down further....

A huge void? I haven't seen anyone clamouring for a dual-layer, maybe pirates, but 4.7 gigs is plenty for those Apple target. I'm not to sure on the graphics card, but doesn't the processor do all the heavy lifting? I'm pretty sure the GL is mostly for CAD professionals because CAD things are rendered on screen through the card. Where movies are rendered using render farms.

I agree. The entire 970 platform is not designed to exceed about 2.8ghz. Although in small quanities it has surpassed them, it is by no means a production possibility for 3.0ghz. Thats why so much speculation has shifted to the 975/980/9xx, whatever they call it. It has been documented (not only on rumor sites, but by people interviewing IBM/Apple execs...) that Apple is developing their PPC platform in parallel with IBM's POWER chips, although they may not be exactly on time, with the release of the POWER5 a few months ago, speculation would lead you to incur that Steve Jobs has been working on the 9xx since the release of the initial 970.

Unfortunately, I am a journalist, and he said she said doesn't cut it. I have provided statements based on facts, articles and company information. What you provided is udder crap speculation based on assumptions and guesses. Rumors and perceived problems do not constitue reality or product existance.