G5 Specs for WWDC!

[Mord]

http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/pc/popups/r9800xtboard.asp

the non modded radeon 9800xt

and this 9600 is almost looks like the original rage

http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/pc/popups/r9600board.asp

 

[SyndicateX]

You cannot tell me that there is not a tremendous amount of wasted space inside the single processor G5. I have total faith that Apple could make a smaller case, with half the RAM slots, 2 PCI slots, etc. and keep the G5 cool without sounding like a jet getting ready to take off. Consumers cannot buy a single 2.0 GHz machine? It just seems weird. Give us a two single proc machines (in a smaller case) and two dual proc machines (in the current G5 tower) instead of three choices all in the same box.

I agree with thatwindingo on the idea that Apple did not design the case specifically for the 970. There is a TON of wasted space in a single processor G5, and still a rather significant amount in the duals. But I still firmly believe that at the release of the G5, Steve Jobs was secretly sitting there with a handful of 975/980 knowing full well the 970 was not the future. Rather than having to redesign the case again ($$$), they designed it large to accomadate future upgrades.

You take that same case and now that seems so empty, add one more optical drive bay, 2 more HD bays, possibly more ram slots, a possible additional graphics card slot, and 2 spankin new processors that will need large fans and you begin to fill up all that emptiness...and it begins to make sense.

 

[blue&whiteman]

I've corrected the mistaken chip name. I meant to say that it was the MPC7400 and then the 7410, but I've also cited my sources.

what is the difference between the 7400 and 7410? there are even different versions of the 7410. older ones seem to be 7410 ver 1.3. my sonnet G4/500 bought new just last fall is a 7410 ver 1.4. they must have changes things to have all these different versions and chip numbers.

 

[SyndicateX]

I built an SK43 withan Athlon XP 2800+(2.08ghz) CPU. The unit is rather cute (worded by my friend grrl I built it for). But its not quiet. The fans will kick up after a few hours of use. The BIOS has setting for smart fans (which can be overridden). The powersupply has a 40mm fan, and there is a heat-pipe unit over the processor that goes to an 80mm fan. Factor in a floppy drive, a cdrw, a 7200RPM HD and Gig of RAM and you are in a 'warm" factor. Add a fast AGP video card, and it just got louder. Still, far quieter than a G5 machine (side by side).

Your athlon is quieter than a current G5? I built myself a XP 2600+ I believe, and had huge heatsinks, low rpm fans, every possible cooling thing I could do and that think sounds like a F-117 flying under the desk. Granted, Ive only listened to the G5's in the Apple Store, but I can put my head right next to them and hardly hear a whirr.

Hehe, I wont even begin to touch on our 2.4ghz Xeon processor server. We had to build the damn thing its own soundproof room just to be able to talk in the server room and not hear it through the walls.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

the current chip that the cube can take at the moment and stay quiet (18db 80mm fan) is the 1.4GHz g4 7457 and that chip dissipates 25 watts according to moto data sheets

a g5 cube can be made now not that it will

look at the 9600 non-pro on ati's page certainly small enough and fanless

I totally agree. Apple will never make another "Cube" (kind of like if they made a new PDA it would not be called a "Newton" or a video game console called a "Pippin"). The name "Cube" has far to many negative conotations associated with it. So, why would they wanted to stick it to a brand new piece of equipment. However, there is nothing stopping them from making a small form-factor single processor G5 desktop and giving it a whole new name (and use some of the cube technology like the external power supply).

The iCube and the Xcube (sticking with Apple's two favorite monikers) could work though.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

You take that same case and now that seems so empty, add one more optical drive bay, 2 more HD bays, possibly more ram slots, a possible additional graphics card slot, and 2 spankin new processors that will need large fans and you begin to fill up all that emptiness...and it begins to make sense.

But on the flip side, couldn't you take everything that is in the case right now (use only one processor) and fit it into a much smaller box and keeping one AGP slot and cutting down to two PCI slots. I don't argue that you go put something much hotter in the current G5 case. I am just saying you could put a current G5 (single processor) into a much smaller box without major heating issues.

 

[aafuss1]

Wow, 65W - that's going to be a lot of heat.....so look for a lot of noise....

But it will be nice to see real pro level graphics cards if its true..

D

Wow, 65W-more than the watt-hour value for a PBG4 and twice as much as G4-eg-a 3.40E Pentium 4-about 2x that-102w.

 

[SyndicateX]

But on the flip side, couldn't you take everything that is in the case right now (use only one processor) and fit it into a much smaller box and keeping one AGP slot and cutting down to two PCI slots. I don't argue that you go put something much hotter in the current G5 case. I am just saying you could put a current G5 (single processor) into a much smaller box without major heating issues.

Yes, I agree that it could all easilly be fit in there, fan noise and heat non-withstanding. But from Apple it is introducing an entirely new product line, they have to manufacture or purchase new cases, motherboards, and in general spend alot of R&D time on creating a cube or other small formed case. Instead of attempting to introduce products based on past failures, I think they should spend as much resources on making sure Steve meets his promise of 3.0ghz and working out every possible kink that inventing a 6th product line simply because it is 'smaller'

If you want a G5, you want a G5. You dont want it because its small and cute, you want it because its one of the most powerful processors on the planet, and it does one thing none of the competing processors can claim, run OS X. However.... if they do in fact release a headless G5 iMac, one that you can supply your own display, isnt that the same basic principal behind the cube without the dreaded CuBe name? Kill 2 birds with 1 stone, and even if it comes out and resembles a cube, its still an iMac, and its going to sell.

 

[ffakr]

MPC7410 400mhz at 4-4.5 watts.
IBM 970FX 2.0ghz at 24.5 watts.

The cube started with a 7400 and later sported a 7410.
The 450MHz 7400 had a typical wattage of 8W according to this company that was reselling them http://www.cornes-dodwell.co.jp/business/system/pdf/radstone.pdf
(Motorola's info on discontinued products is somewhat lacking)
Now this company says that the 7400 at 400W had a typical 5W rating while the PC 7410 was 6W @ 500MHz.

so, it looks like the Cubes shipped with CPUs that were a max of under 10 watts, in line with what you were saying. The upgrade market has proven that the same design could sustain a cpu that is using about 15 watts without an additional fan.

I don't, however, think that anyone has suggested that Apple put a G5 into the exact same cube that they used for the Powermac G4 Cube. There are PLENTY of SFF PC systems that are roughly the size of the Cube, yet they have P4 Northwoods, or Athlon64s in them with gaming cards and 7200 rpm hard drives.
I still don't think Apple will make another cube. I also don't see why they couldn't.

I've corrected the mistaken chip name. I meant to say that it was the MPC7400 and then the 7410, but I've also cited my sources. Also, I don't use straight clock to gauge anything other than clockspeed, so I'd ask that you not put words in my mouth.

You never said you used a straight guage, and I don't believe I said you claimed you were using a straight guage. I do, however, believe you WERE using MHz as a straight guage to compare power consumption...
How about this?:

Add on the 1.0ghz FSB instead of a 100mhz FSB (tenfold increase), PC3200 RAM instead of PC100, a modern graphics card instead of the Rage 128... You're talking about a fifteen-fold increase in heat,

I'm not sure how anyone could assume that you didn't mean to imply that running x times faster is roughly equivelent to running x times hotter. You give a variety of examples of system components running at an effective 4-10x faster clock speed then you claim that is the same as a fifteen-fold increase in heat. Fifteen-fold is another way of saying 15 times as much, correct?
The problem is, you provide exactly one example of a thermal increase with the cpu. The Cube shipped with a cpu that ranged from ~4 watts to 8 watts typical, and the 2GHz 970fx is listed at 24.5 watts. That is an increase of approx 7x to 3x more than the original cube cpus. How do you get a 15 fold increase in thermal output for an entire system? You realize that the other components would have to be MORE THAN 3-7x more hot to make up for the smaller difference in the cpus. See, that's the thing, unless I totally mis-read your quote, you are indicating that the entire system would generate a 15 fold increase in heat.. but the difference between a 2 platter 5400rpm drive and a newer 2 platter 7200 rpm drive certainly isn't more than 15x as far as heat (newer platters are lighter than older platters so that makes up for the heat required to spin them up faster). From what I've seen the DDR memory isn't any hotter than previous memory (unless you up the voltage and overclock it). So where is the 15 fold increase from?

I have a cube right next to me.. sitting on top of a dual G5.
The powersupply is 205 watts. By your reasoning, a single processor G5 with a 2GHz 970fx should require a 3,000 watt power supply?

 

[ethernet76]

when i subdivided the prosumer category into 'all-in-ones' and 'cpu-only', i was referring to the iMac and the Cube. The eMac is the only real entry-level machine. The iMac needs to move to the G5 and add some higher-end features to justify its high price tag.

The reason your college paper has G5s is because producing a newspaper (daily or weekly) is a professional endeavor. Not that you couldn't get by with iMacs. But the production-side of publications definitely need 'professional' features like driving large (and dual) monitors, large HDs, lots of RAM, fast networking, etc.

We're by no means professional-grade. We probably could use iMacs, but those 20" screens are tiny. We could easily switch to eMacs and not be hurt(that much). Most of machines are 1.6 with 512 and usually we wait more on the network than on the computers, but we're going to gigabit so things should get better. I think professional grade to be more along the lines of doing poster size layout or something. We of course don't use filters so nothing really hits the proccessor hard.

But I agree that there needs to be some sort of step between Beast(g5) and dinky(iMac). Maybe a iMac with a g5.

 

[jsw]

Nine fans and airflow, so that there could be a hotter, faster processor inside is my guess. I mean, really... Am I the only one to consider that Apple might have created the chassis with some future event in mind? It seemed obvious to me that the usage of the cooling system was to keep noise down right now, and the scale with whatever was done later.

That would be borderline tragic, because the case now is not something I'd like to see continue on for years. The handles are painful if actually used as handles, the case is overly heavy, etc.

Of course, a similar form factor might be used later on, but, if they're going to be using the case as a radiator for a liquid cooler, say, then why not make a larger case for that purpose later? I'd think there'd be enough required mods to the case that they'd need a retooling anyway.

As it stands, nine fans or not, there's a lot of wasted space inside. And a lot of heavy aluminum that isn't apparently necessary.

 

[ethernet76]

Actually, it means nothing other than the fact that the XBox 2 will be on a PowerPC platform. I can write software for the G5 on my G4 machine and have all the optimization calls in place when the code is compiled at install. This is, in larrge part, due to Apple's insistence on using the GCC compiler and its portable libraries for their core components, but it would be true even if you use the IBM XCC compilers instead. The PowerPC is a standard and all PowerPC compatible code will run on other PowerPCs with the proper libraries, or will at least address the hardware properly. It's up to the OS to do the talking between layers.

Using the 970 fits inline with the original xBox. Using standard parts to build a gaming console. If it were just a generic PPC then it should also run on a G4, something the developers kit does not do.

And 640kb is enough for everyone, right?

Actually I believe I said enough for now. Stop interpreting what I'm saying into what Gates said in the 80's. Is anyone with high capacity producing these drives yet? Sony or Toshiba?

 

[SyndicateX]

As it stands, nine fans or not, there's a lot of wasted space inside. And a lot of heavy aluminum that isn't apparently necessary.

Please read my above post for my opinions on the matter. But if you want a G5, you cant have your cake and eat it too. Either Large case and low noise/heat, or small case / high noise/heat...

But as for my original reason for posting...I still love this Headless GS concept Design... In my opinion that would completely solve Apples huge gap between the eMac, iMac, then G5, because you could sell a base unit very cheap without a monitor. People who want to use a crt from home, they can do that. People who want to buy the 15/17/20/23...." monitor, they can do that. And people wanting a small formed / non-professional G5...well there you have it.

 

[ethernet76]

Knowing full well that no data we have seen so far or projections based on the processors performance suggest that any POWER4 based chip will reach beyond 2.6-2.8ghz. Now, Steve Jobs is not a stupid man, so why would he specifically claim that Apple would be at 3.0 ghz by this upcoming summer? Wouldnt it be foolish of him to fall 200mhz short and dissapoint the entire mac community that holds him to his promise? Now this is purely my speculation but I would love to hear any relevant reason why it would be false.....But if you made a promise that you would be at a certain speed, and you currently had either A. A chip that can never reach it. or B. A developemental chip that has no boundaries as of yet, which would you spend the next year developing? Myself, being an intelligent person, would use the chip that could pull through on my promise, and not leave me 200mhz shy of victory.

I don't belive Jobs to be a stupid man. I do believe him to be extremely arrogant. He claimed 3.0 ghz because that's what the crowd wanted to hear, and that's what he thought IBM could deliever in a year. After all the G5 was developed pretty quickly. The one thing that crowd wanted to hear other than no more moto is no more moto like speed increases.

I don't think Apple or IBM would just give up on the 970fx leaving it only for the xServe. However, it's been a full year since the debut of the G5, so a new processor is possible, but I don't think we've seen enough evidence of a new processor existing. IBM admited to the existance of the 970 a couple months before WWDC 2003, and nothing really came out of the conference they held on March 31.

Also, this is would constitue a 50 percent increase in speed. Seeing the problems IBM had when it went to 90nm process with the 970fx I'd expect the same with any future chip.

I'll reply to the other points later.

 

[SyndicateX]

Using the 970 fits inline with the original xBox. Using standard parts to build a gaming console. If it were just a generic PPC then it should also run on a G4, something the developers kit does not do.

Seeing as you never responded to my previous post addressed to you, again I will reiterate that although the developement kit only runs on G5's, they are not running on OS X. They are using a specifically desiged altered version of WinNT that was originally built for alpha. Microsoft has a deal with IBM, not apple or *motorola. So why would they want their developer kit to run on anything besides an IBM derived processor? Your speculation that since it runs on a current G5 that the chip must be 970x based is absolutely ludicrous.

Actually I believe I said enough for now. Stop interpreting what I'm saying into what Gates said in the 80's. Is anyone with high capacity producing these drives yet? Sony or Toshiba?

This url points to an article describing how numerous current drives can be updated to write dual layer discs with nothing more than a firmware. And then over here you will find a lovely article talking about the other manufacturers upcoming releases of dual layer drives, as well as pricing / media options. Now please stop arguing that the dual layer drives is a stupid idea for apple to pursue because it is obviously the future, and its a hell of a lot better than a 6 in 1 media reader!

I don't think Apple or IBM would just give up on the 970fx leaving it only for the xServe.

Why not? from looking at the performace numbers / heat, how much more than the 970 be stretched from the limits it has already reached? Im sure you could tweak 100-200mhz here or there, but why spend an ungodly amount of money to progress a chip that is already obsolete? IBM is not going to continue to provide R & D on a chip where their new baby is now the POWER5. Motorola was caught always looking to their past, and marveling at their current chips. IBM already is far into development of the POWER6, and shows no signs of relinquishing their pursuit of becoming the #1 chip maker.

However, it's been a full year since the debut of the G5, so a new processor is possible, but I don't think we've seen enough evidence of a new processor existing.

When have we ever known ANYTHING about apples upcoming releases? I wouldnt expect you to be able to jump on google and find all you wanted to know, because as we've seen from apple, their legal "cease and desist" department is pretty damn good.

IBM admited to the existance of the 970 a couple months before WWDC 2003, and nothing really came out of the conference they held on March 31.

keeping the release of the very first 64bit processor for consumers is a little more difficult than just releasing an updated, Apple exclusive chip.

Also, this is would constitue a 50 percent increase in speed. Seeing the problems IBM had when it went to 90nm process with the 970fx I'd expect the same with any future chip.

Again, you are basing your logic on IBM's 90nm manufacturing process. The 970fx's yield problems are only specific to 90nm processors. 130nm or anything else IBM produces has no connection to the fx's issues. i dont expect this upcoming processor to be 90nm, so therefore none of thisapplies.

 

[jsw]

Please read my above post for my opinions on the matter. But if you want a G5, you cant have your cake and eat it too. Either Large case and low noise/heat, or small case / high noise/heat...

Well, no. You could certainly have a smaller case than the current one without sacrificing quietness. Not drastically smaller, but there is plenty of room for size reduction.

I think Apple designed the case under the assumption that there would be speed increases within the year following initial production, and they made it so it could accommodate better cooling systems.

As it turns out, there's been so much time since the G5 came out (or at least will be before another one makes it out of the gate) that a new case design could be done. The current one is overkill.

 

[SyndicateX]

I think Apple designed the case under the assumption that there would be speed increases within the year following initial production, and they made it so it could accommodate better cooling systems.

As it turns out, there's been so much time since the G5 came out (or at least will be before another one makes it out of the gate) that a new case design could be done. The current one is overkill.

Aaah. I will give you that. I do believe Apple anticipated another release between last summer and this, so yes, the current case is overkill. But I would rather have an overabundance of large cases that can hold the necessary modifications for the future than a large supply of cases that are too small.

But yeah...the damn things a beast...but its still sexier than black/beige plastic!!!

 

[Sun Baked]

As it turns out, there's been so much time since the G5 came out (or at least will be before another one makes it out of the gate) that a new case design could be done. The current one is overkill.

Not if you're running two 100W CPUs in the case.

 

[thatwendigo]

the current chip that the cube can take at the moment and stay quiet (18db 80mm fan) is the 1.4GHz g4 7457 and that chip dissipates 25 watts according to moto data sheets

Let me reiterate. since it doesn't seem to have stuck yet... The 970FX utilizes systems that are hotter than the G4, and that's beyond just the chip. It could very well be possible to create a cube-like enclosure that would do all the things that you want, but it will be either hot or expensive, because silent cooling is not cheap when you're getting beyond a certain point. It's going to be especially difficult since you're asking Apple to create a logic board that's smaller than a laptop and using passive or extremely limited cooling solutions. Every new part they use that doesn't come from some outside manufacturer is more R&D money right out of Apple's pocket, and that hikes the cost of the machine.

http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/pc/popups/r9800xtboard.asp

the non modded radeon 9800xt

and this 9600 is almost looks like the original rage

http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/pc/popups/r9600board.asp

Try again. Apple uses the Radeon 9600 Pro, which needs a fan. It's also not nearly as complicated, hot, or fast as the 9600XT or 9800XT.

For comparison:
Reference board for the current Apple chipset, the Radeon 9800 Pro
Reference board for the Radeon 9800XT

There's really only a subjective judgement to on, here, but DAMN! That fan is three times as big as the other one and you need a molex connector just to power the thing, quite aside from the AGP bus. That's a big, big difference.

what is the difference between the 7400 and 7410? there are even different versions of the 7410. older ones seem to be 7410 ver 1.3. my sonnet G4/500 bought new just last fall is a 7410 ver 1.4. they must have changes things to have all these different versions and chip numbers.

The main difference I've ever seen in generational shifts in the MPC74xx family of processors is clock speed and heat. The difference between the 7400 and 7410, for example, is about 4 watts worth of heat at the same clockspeed, or a 50% drop in core temperature if you go by proportional measures. This is about the same as the 970 and 970FX shift, though some indications peg the FX as also being a better performer clock-over clock, but there isn't a whole lot of literature on the subject at the moment.

But on the flip side, couldn't you take everything that is in the case right now (use only one processor) and fit it into a much smaller box and keeping one AGP slot and cutting down to two PCI slots. I don't argue that you go put something much hotter in the current G5 case. I am just saying you could put a current G5 (single processor) into a much smaller box without major heating issues.

It's possible, though I can't really see why you would want to, aside from as a personal "wanna" that I hear a lot around these parts. Anyone who can really get useage out of a G5 would probably benefit from the expansion ability in any case, and the dual G4 is still a better performer than a single G5 at current clock rates. It just doesn't seem like a sound investment for Apple.

Now, a real, powerful single processor machine with a real case might be a good way to go. I've outlined such a differentiation in the past, and I could even see a situation where you have towers that are basically the same processor and support fabric, but with better options and dual processor boards in the pro line. Make the consumer line have lower RAM speeds and HD speeds, with graphics cards a step down, but with a BTO option for the disks and cards.

I don't, however, think that anyone has suggested that Apple put a G5 into the exact same cube that they used for the Powermac G4 Cube. There are PLENTY of SFF PC systems that are roughly the size of the Cube, yet they have P4 Northwoods, or Athlon64s in them with gaming cards and 7200 rpm hard drives.

How many fans? How loud are they? Who provides the parts?

I'm looking at Shuttle cases on newegg right now, and I see lots of P4/Celeron and Athlon XP/Duron boxes, but not a single one for the PP4EE or the Athlon 64. Most of them have integrated graphics, and perhaps a single PCI slot (not PCI-X or PCI-Express) and an AGP slot (some of them are only 4x), and many don't have SATA controls or anything higher than PC2700 RAM (and even when it's higher, there's only two slots).

The XPC SB61G2 v3 is billed as their flagship unit. Let's see what you get:

300 x 200 x 185 cm, 5..2kg
Front ports: 2x USB 2.0, 1x FireWire 400, mic in, audio out
Rear ports: 2x PS/2, 4x USB 2.0, FireWire 400, VGA-out, 10/100 Ethernet, 6.1 on-board audio
Bays: 1x 5.25", 2x 3.5"
Intel Socket 478 for Pentium 4 and Celeron (400/533/800FSB)
2x PC2100/2700/3200 RAM (2 GB max)
Intel Extreme 2 graphics, AGP 8x slot
2x ATA100
2x SATA150
250w PSU​

Just to kit this out as a gaming machine, let's price it:

Shuttle XPC SB61G2R - $370
Intel Pentium 4 3.4ghz (800mhz FSB, 512k L2, Northwoods core) - $406
ATI Radeon x800 256MB (lower heat and power than the 9800XT) - $475
Corsair XMS 1GB PC3200 kit (2x512) - $280
2x Maxtor 80GB SATA 7200RPM - 2x $77 = $144
Pioneer DVR-A07 8x DVD+/-RW - $156
Cost: $1831​

The problem? There's not a chance in hell that you'll power that system off of a wimpy little 250 PSU, because AMD Athlon XP systems with less demanding graphics cards choke under 350 watts.

I have a cube right next to me.. sitting on top of a dual G5.
The powersupply is 205 watts. By your reasoning, a single processor G5 with a 2GHz 970fx should require a 3,000 watt power supply?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but you're not going to get a modern system running at 200 watts, especially not with anything approaching top of the line components. I'm more willing to drop the RAM, but the FSB on the G5 towers has its own heatpipe. Does this not bother anyone else at all? Has it become so blase that we just accept that there ought to be such measure taken in computers, rather than pushing for greater efficiency? I understand that PC users are willing to acccept two-slot blowers for graphics cards on the GeForce 5900XT and 5950, but does that mean that we have to follow in their footsteps?

Using the 970 fits inline with the original xBox. Using standard parts to build a gaming console. If it were just a generic PPC then it should also run on a G4, something the developers kit does not do.

The original XBox used old compents with a lot of software and driver optimizations, not "standard parts." I'm perfectly willing to accept that the next Microsoft console will be running on a chip that is a descendent of the PowerPC 970, but I find it highly unlikely that it will be using exactly the same processor that sits inside of the PowerMac G5.

Actually I believe I said enough for now. Stop interpreting what I'm saying into what Gates said in the 80's. Is anyone with high capacity producing these drives yet? Sony or Toshiba?

Then don't say the same thing that he did. You can't tell people what they do and don't need in the future, any more than he could, and Apple already excels at getting people into things they never knew that they needed before - MP3 players and digital movie editing come to mind.

Also, as I've said umpteen times already... Sony is making dual layer drives right now. They're also introducing their own line of computers with the same drive.

 

[jsw]

How many fans? How loud are they? Who provides the parts?

Actually, according to the last info I've seen, Carrier Corp. has been contracted to produce the cooling system for the next generation of G5's. As with their current central air conditioning systems, the G5 case itself will be housed outside of your dwelling, with cabling run inside for the monitor, keyboard and mouse, accessory ports, and optical drive units.

While noisy, the expection is that the exterior mounting will provide sufficient noise reduction. Also, contractors already familiar with the cement pads required for home A/C units will be capable of building the pad necessary to hold the new, even more stunningly massive G5 case.

 

[wdlove]

I agree with thatwindingo on the idea that Apple did not design the case specifically for the 970. There is a TON of wasted space in a single processor G5, and still a rather significant amount in the duals. But I still firmly believe that at the release of the G5, Steve Jobs was secretly sitting there with a handful of 975/980 knowing full well the 970 was not the future. Rather than having to redesign the case again ($$$), they designed it large to accommodate future upgrades.

You take that same case and now that seems so empty, add one more optical drive bay, 2 more HD bays, possibly more ram slots, a possible additional graphics card slot, and 2 spankin new processors that will need large fans and you begin to fill up all that emptiness...and it begins to make sense.

That makes sense to me also. I would really hate to see them change the current G5 design anytime soon. That was smart to design a case that will accommodate future updates.

 

[Mav451]

Your athlon is quieter than a current G5? I built myself a XP 2600+ I believe, and had huge heatsinks, low rpm fans, every possible cooling thing I could do and that think sounds like a F-117 flying under the desk. Granted, Ive only listened to the G5's in the Apple Store, but I can put my head right next to them and hardly hear a whirr.

Hehe, I wont even begin to touch on our 2.4ghz Xeon processor server. We had to build the damn thing its own soundproof room just to be able to talk in the server room and not hear it through the walls.

Sounds like you haven't heard a panaflo system -_-

Try a Tt Silent Boost (the only fan/hsf combo with panaflo L1A) and 4 L1A case fans (or 2 of the 120mm on the fan connectors)--and of course a quiet PSU. This should be quiet enough to hear your HD's thinking/whirring.

 

[neonart]

But as for my original reason for posting...I still love this Headless GS concept Design... In my opinion that would completely solve Apples huge gap between the eMac, iMac, then G5, because you could sell a base unit very cheap without a monitor. People who want to use a crt from home, they can do that. People who want to buy the 15/17/20/23...." monitor, they can do that. And people wanting a small formed / non-professional G5...well there you have it.

LOVE THAT DESIGN! G4, G5 or whatever. It looks awesome!

A G5 in a smaller form factor like that one or a cube (not nessesaraly "the Cube") is totally possible, just not probable.

As one poster put it before, everyone including Apple assumes the G5 will eventually make it to the PowerBook. Why not something bigger and stationary? Could it be fanless like the original? Probaly not, but the product is certainly possible.

 

[ffakr]

The main difference I've ever seen in generational shifts in the MPC74xx family of processors is clock speed and heat. The difference between the 7400 and 7410, for example, is about 4 watts worth of heat at the same clockspeed, or a 50% drop in core temperature if you go by proportional measures. This is about the same as the 970 and 970FX shift, though some indications peg the FX as also being a better performer clock-over clock, but there isn't a whole lot of literature on the subject at the moment.

The Part of that original question was about the 1.4 rev of the 7410. A family of chips (like an Barton core AthlonXP, or a PPC 7410) has several itterations. They are generally very minor changes to the chip or process, but they don't fundimentally change the architecture or process the chip is built on. A 7410 rev 1.3 and a 7410 rev 1.4 are both chips with the same basic layout (same # of integer units, fp units, altivec units) and they are both produced on .18 micron.
The difference between teh 7400 and the 7410 is a move from .22 micron (I've seen .20 in other sources) to a .18 micron process. The chip didn't fundimentally change, but it was shrunk and it's core voltage went down so the wattage went down.
The reason the next chip, the 7450, was hotter is because the 7450 is considered a G4+. It's produced on the same process as the 7410 but it has an extra FP unit and 2 additional FP Altivec units. It's a much better and bigger processor.

How many fans? How loud are they? Who provides the parts?

I'm looking at Shuttle cases on newegg right now, and I see lots of P4/Celeron and Athlon XP/Duron boxes, but not a single one for the PP4EE or the Athlon 64.

http://us.shuttle.com/specs2.asp?pro_id=486
Shuttle Athlon64 SFF

http://us.shuttle.com/specs2.asp?pro_id=467
Shuttle Pentium 4 / 800MHz bus, supported CPUs include 3.4GHz P4 and 3.0EE

both have 8x AGP and the P4 has GigE, both have firewire... You can get the barebones case, motherboard, power supply, and sometimes a flash reader for under $300.

They aren't loud. They use a heat pipe to an aluminum fin heat radiator that has 1- 80mm fan on it. The PSU is usually under 250 watts so the PSU fan isn't loud either. (guess that also rules out arguments of power requirements.. since there are easily tens of thousands of P4 and Athlon SMFF machines out there)
I know people with the earlier generations of the Shuttles and they aren't loud at all. The new ones are supposed to be much more quiet.

And of course... Though it isn't available yet, here is a link to iWill's upcomming Dual Opteron Small Form Factor PC.
http://www.iwill.net/zmax/zmaxdp_1.asp

 

[Mord]

It's possible

That is what i have been saying all along thankyou for agreeing with me

I spent around £2500 on my cube with a cinima display because it filled my neiché there arenot enough people like me to buy a cube like this that is why i said it will not happen however much i want it to

and by the way the g5 clock for clock is cooler than the g4 so a 1.5GHz g5 would not need more than a quiet 80mm fan and a better power brick for the 9600, 7200rpm HD and superdrive also there are acctualls mounting holes for a fan on the cube's logic bard so a cube with a 750MHz bus could be cooled sufficiantly. (there is no rule that says apple cannot use the non pro version of the 9600)