Galaxy Nexus using a pentile display ?

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by KnightWRX, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. KnightWRX macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #1
  2. testcss macrumors member

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    #2
    Originally I was going to buy one, but now that I have seen that the iPhone is close to 4x as fast as it, I'm going to stick with iPhone. Everyone in the android community was sure that this would destroy the iPhone, but now as much as a third of phandroid.com thinks the phone was a disappointment here.

    If you have to have a huge screen, NFC, or Android there is no real reason to get this phone it seems.
     
  3. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    did you see the number of people here who call the 4s a huge disappointment.

    I honestly have yet to fully understand the hate for pentile. Yes it is not as good as standard RGB but it is not as bad as people seem to make it out to be.
     
  4. testcss macrumors member

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    Yes, it was about the same with more people disappointed with about a 60/40 split. The difference here is that I believe that people truly believed that Apple was going to create a phone perfectly for them with every spec they wanted whether it was a huge battery, large screen, 4G, etc and they didn't want to have the compromises included with those benefits.

    In other words, many peoples beliefs about the iPhone were unrealistic. They were so disappointed at Apple not redefining phones that that they failed to realize whether or not there is a phone out there that can deliver them their wishes. Although, I really would have liked to see those things like a larger screen/LTE/etc. (I even considered moving to the new Nexus), I have realized the real benefits of an iPhone.

    In the way I see things you can have three different types of phones right now


    Motorola Razr- Great Product Design

    Samsung Galaxy "insert long name here" - Extreme specs

    Nexus - Best software/future updates and latest features such as software buttons providing larger screen size

    Each phone has its compromises too, such as outdated specs on the Nexus (almost 4 year old gpu), bad software (motoblur) imo on the Razr, and expensiveness/ slow getting updates on the Galaxy S 2

    THe iPhone tries to be the phone that has a combination of good software, hardware, and cool features with the least amount of compromises. I was hoping the Galaxy Nexus would do that better than the iPhone, but I now have seen it doesn't.
     
  5. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    Why downgrade from the SGS II which had a full RGB display (SAMOLED+) ?
     
  6. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    dont know is my answer. But like you pointed out it was the first one to go to 720p and it could be that SAMOLED plus could not do it yet. Does not mean it is not coming.
     
  7. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    It's disappointing though that the flagship phone has downgraded specs compared to stuff that's already shipped. I guess I was expecting more from the Galaxy Nexus.
     
  8. SevenInchScrew macrumors 6502a

    SevenInchScrew

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    My Captivate has a PenTile display, and it never mattered to me. And that was at 233ppi, so I sure as hell won't care when the display has 316ppi. See here for more reading on the PenTile FUD issue....

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...D---is-the-PenTile-matrix-bad-for-you_id23134


    Also, I think you are downplaying the specs of the Galaxy Nexus a bit much. The OMAP 4 series are one of the best SoCs available for mobile devices. The PowerVR GPU, while not totally state of the art, was one of the best GPUs in recent phones, and that was only at 200mhz. The Nexus has it clocked nearly twice that (384mhz). And poor camera?? Have you seen the footage from this thing? Hardly what I would call poor....

    http://youtu.be/ZhlL-ys5iOA

    Basically, it appears that you, along with many others, are missing the point of the "Nexus" line of phones. They have never used cutting-edge technology. They are basically just a benchmark for what Google wants the next generation of devices to be capable of. The Nexus One used the then average "Snapdragon 8250" SoC, while the Nexus S used the nearly year old "Hummingbird" SoC. So, in similar fashion, the Galaxy Nexus is using a fairly modern SoC, but nothing cutting edge.

    To me, it looks to be a very nice device, and follows the "Nexus" family lineage quite well.
     
  9. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

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  10. AllieNeko macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    The new screen is 1280x720, the Galaxy S2 is 800x480. That's not a downgrade. Even with the Pentile structure, there's still MORE subpixels on the new screen.

    Now, Pentile is controversial. I have a Galaxy S sitting around here, and while the screen is beautiful, the fuzziness caused by the Pentile layout annoys me. It makes text less crisp, plain and simple. For photos and videos, it looks beautiful. The human eye is more sensitive to green light than to red or blue. The science, there, is solid. For blue, which is the point, Pentile is just fine. But you can see the structure of the red subpixels on the Galaxy S. The human eye is sensitive enough to red. That results in a weird red fuzziness around text.

    Some people see this, some never notice it. That's on an 800x480 display. With the 1280x720 pixel display, even the red subpixels are now close enough together than even fewer people will notice the reduced number of red subpixels (the blue doesn't matter so much).

    Pentile has a reason, and a benefit. Like all emissive displays, OLED displays are subject to burn-in - uneven wear. Green OLEDs have the longest life, Blue the shortest. On my Galaxy S, the blue channel has the status bar very noticeably burnt in. The red channel also has noticeable burn in. The green channel does not.

    The Pentile layout keeps this from being even worse than it already is. The most important color visually (to the human eye for sharpness) also lasts the longest? Bigger OLEDs last longer. So if you make the red and blue ones substantially physically bigger and pair only red OR blue with each green, you have a display that's going to exhibit less burn-in, and less shift towards green over it's service life.

    Combined with advances in OLED lifespan, Pentile helps make OLED displays last longer and is keeping them more competitive. I agree, it was an issue when it came to sharpness of text. However, I have not seen one of the new 1280x720 displays, and I'm sure you haven't either. The pixel density of the whole thing is so high that I expect it to look VERY good, and I do not expect the problem of visible red subpixels to exist.

    We'll see, but wait until you have it in your hands to judge. There are some very good engineering reasons to use the Pentile subpixel layout, and as pixel density goes up the disadvantages become less and the advantages greater.
     
  11. vitzr macrumors 68030

    vitzr

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    Samsung had no choice since supplies of the full RGB + display are being consumed at a much higher rate than their earlier sales projections led them to believe. The original pre-production specs included a plus display.

    A friend who is a large Samsung distributor in Hong Kong tells me Samsung is working aggressively to ramp up plus production so it can be offered in the phone in the second half of 2012.

    Nonetheless the 1280 x 720 resolution offers a much higher pixel density close to that of the iPhone’s “Retina” display. According to my contact who's seen one, the high resolution goes a long ways towards making the pentile display quite nice, even if it's not their first choice.
     
  12. MacHamster68, Oct 22, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011

    MacHamster68 macrumors 68040

    MacHamster68

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    #12
    the nexus is not what Samsung could have made :(
    it's engineering and designing is done by a armada of samsung lawyers to try to get not in the way of any Apple patent :( thats what we will see from now on ... crippled engineering and design departments

    ok Samsung denies that of course , they want to sell the nexus as something special and worth to buy, and not as something made using the gaps in Apples vast array of Patents , but the spec's compared to the galaxy s2 speak the truth
     
  13. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #13
    Up until I read that little bit of info, I was being sourly tempted by the Nexus, but after using the iPhone 4's gorgeous display is I'd rather not step backwards and use a device that employs a pentile matrix to share sub-pixels.
     
  14. neiltc13 macrumors 68040

    neiltc13

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    I think the only way you can be sure which is better is to look at both in person running applications you are likely to use.

    It's impossible to tell from photographs or specs which one will produce the better image.

    In my experience, the colours on an iPhone 4 display are washed out in comparison to a SAMOLED (not +) display. I have only tried a 800x480 SAMOLED display and I'd imagine that the increase in resolution will make a huge difference to the quality of the image.
     
  15. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    I've used a Nexus One and while the technology has improved, clearly sharing sub pixels does impact image and color quality.
     
  16. *LTD*, Oct 22, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #16
    You don't really need to actually use the products first-hand and compare them in order to know this. There is no subjective interpretation involved.

    1 pound is always 1 pound.
     
  17. fireshot91 macrumors 601

    fireshot91

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    1 pound is not always 1 pound.



    Using a weighing scale, weigh 1 pound of ...carrots.



    Then go on the top of Mount Everest, and weigh the same bag of carrots. Guarantee you it will weigh less.

    Weight ≠ Mass.



    Honestly, it does depend on each phone, the size of the screen, the quality of the screen, the type of screen, etc. Just go see the phones in person if it's a deciding factor, and buy the one with the better screen.
     
  18. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    Just knitpicking. Gravity acts uniformly within its radius of influence. You will weigh the same at the peak of Mt Everest as you do at the beach. You' re thinking of air pressure, which would not affect a conventional scale.
     
  19. AllieNeko macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Please explain how it could harm "color quality". That's actually the entire point of the PenTile matrix layout is to allow differently sized subpixels to help level wear and maintain color balance and reduce burn-in.

    As for overall image quality, sharing blue subpixels doesn't affect a thing. The human eye can't resolve blue that well compared to green and red. Sharing red subpixels does create some fuzziness, yes. Heck, it bugs me more than anyone else I know. But I'm still more than willing to give this new display a chance. The resolution is so high that I really expect it to look great.
     
  20. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    no it would be different. The farther you are from the center the less you will weight.
    He was right in how he explain it. The farther you are from the center the weaker it is on you. Now the difference at the top of the mountain and sea level is not going to be that much.
     
  21. KnightWRX thread starter macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

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    #21
    I'm not downplaying it. The OMAP4 they're using (4460) uses a SGX540MP2. While one of the latest SoCs, Apple's A5 quite handily beats it in this regard, and the A5 is already 2 quarters old.

    However, it was either that or their own Exynos SoC which uses the ARM reference design Mali-400 GPU which is even worse. Frankly, I just think maybe the Galaxy Nexus would have at least been a chance for Samsung to showcase some upgraded GPUs, maybe at least match Apple's offering, in a new version of their Exynos SoC.

    And yes, the camera is poor when you compare it to the iPhone 4S and the Sony Xperia Arc (which uses the same optics according to online speculation). Something else Samsung could've tapped to just get that slight extra edge.

    It seems corners were cut in this case.

    Anyway, I do like the AMOLED screens, even the pentile versions. The colors are crisp and the blacks to die for. It just seems counter-intuitive to go from SAMOLED+ to SAMOLED for a flagship model. It's too bad about those manufacturing issues.

    It's not like I can switch away from iOS either way, I'm too invested in the Apple eco-system to just up and leave. With it's better GPU and camera, and the Retina display being good enough (resolution wise at 328 ppi if not having the nice colors of the OLED stuff), I'm happy with my iPhone 4S.
     
  22. fireshot91 macrumors 601

    fireshot91

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    #22
    ^^ Thank you. That was the point I was attempting (And apparently failing) to explain.

    I don't know how far away would the force of gravity start to decrease, just that it will eventually.



    And lol, if it didn't decrease, and gravity was equal everywhere, then 1" outside of it's radius you wouldn't be affected at all, and then you come 1" closer to Earth, you'd immediately start to accelerate at 10m/s....
     
  23. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #23
    sharing sub pixels reduces the PPI on a display which has a direct connection to accurate color representation.

    From engadget
     
  24. MacHamster68, Oct 22, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011

    MacHamster68 macrumors 68040

    MacHamster68

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    #24
    it is very simple if your Weight or Mass is 150 pounds on the earth surface at sea level ,and if you suddenly appear on top of Mount Everest then your Weight or Mass is still 150 pound , even if you go to the Moon or on Jupiter or Pluto your Weight or Mass is still the same 150 pound

    i mean you are not going on a diet as soon as you leave sea level or :D

    the only thing that's changing is gravity,the further you get away from earth surface the less gravity , but even on top of Mount Everest is enough left of it to make you drop down onto the earth surface if you happen to fall.. Having said that , a 1 meter drop takes longer on Everest then on Sea level , ok not noticable longer, but i guess you can messure it in Planck's time :D
     
  25. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #25
    You are confusing weight and mass. Mass does not change relative to gravity. Wight does.
    Wight is a function of mass * gravity. On the moon your mass would be a the same but your weight would be 1/6th you weight here on earth.
     

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