Gaming performance reports in osx from nMP owners?

[snarfquest]

Gaming is getting progressively better on OSX of late. Portal, Portal2, Borderlands 2, and I just started playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I so pleased of late and haven't used my Windows Bootcamp now in several months I am becoming very tempted to delete my Bootcamp drive and reclaim the space.

 

[abluehaze]

true, although i wonder what slightly older games will be like

i mainly play these older games, i played world of warcraft at 60-120fps in native resolution on my 15" rmbp (over 1400p i think) and it looked amazing, i bet a single d700 could outperform the 750 for these types of games even if it isn't a gaming card

I'm curious to see what performance is like as well on Blizz games. I did read in one review that in OSX they were getting 58-59 fps in D3 with high settings in 1440 which is the same as a new iMac with 780m. 58-59 fps in a year+ old game is pretty poor for a 4k+ machine.

Hopefully we'll start getting some reports soon as more people get their deliveries.

 

[Cubemmal]

Same same. I understand the desire to work and play on the same machine, but it's rarely ideal to do so if the work machine is a Mac. My Mac Pro is my workhorse. The only thing I do on my Windows rig is play games. I've never had virus, malware, or any other issues at all with it. I despise the OS, but I acknowledge that it's a much better gaming platform than a UNIX-based one.

Daily I do my work in Windows, OS X and Linux, so I prefer a Mac running VMWare. One computer, one desktop, three operating systems.

I think UNIX/OSX is potentially the better gaming platform actually. Better security, open standards (OpenGL/CL) and so on. One example, running under OS X I can easily switch from my game to the desktop, or put the game from full screen into windowed as I check the web for something related to what I'm doing in the game. The same can be done in Windows, but it's clunky so I don't. I have an iPad handy for that kind of stuff.

It's all a moot point obviously, especially now since Apple killed the PCIe slots.

 

[shaunp]

Personally I don't game on my Mac (I prefer a console). However, I'm a bit surprised to see a thread on gaming on OSX... is there such a thing? I thought anyone that gamed on a Mac did so in Windows. 😕

The only reason I have a Windows PC is for games. I'm surprised that the Mac isn't a gaming platform given how consumer-focused Apple is these days. You can't get more consumer than games.

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Daily I do my work in Windows, OS X and Linux, so I prefer a Mac running VMWare. One computer, one desktop, three operating systems.

I think UNIX/OSX is potentially the better gaming platform actually. Better security, open standards (OpenGL/CL) and so on. One example, running under OS X I can easily switch from my game to the desktop, or put the game from full screen into windowed as I check the web for something related to what I'm doing in the game. The same can be done in Windows, but it's clunky so I don't. I have an iPad handy for that kind of stuff.

It's all a moot point obviously, especially now since Apple killed the PCIe slots.

Just need a core i7 desktop with a decent GPU.

 

[jasonvp]

I think UNIX/OSX is potentially the better gaming platform actually. Better security, open standards (OpenGL/CL) and so on.

It isn't, though. For Triple-A titles, DX is still king. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes. OpenGL will always be playing second fiddle to DX, for better, for worse.

I'd agree with you if all Triple-A writers moved 100% of their code to OpenGL. But there are limitations to it that they have a lot of trouble getting around. DX makes it far easier and less expensive to deliver the effects and game play they're all after.

(OpenCL has no real place in this discussion, unfortunately).

 

[wildmac]

The only reason I have a Windows PC is for games. I'm surprised that the Mac isn't a gaming platform given how consumer-focused Apple is these days. You can't get more consumer than games..

Their game focus is on the iPad, I'm afraid.

 

[iBug2]

It isn't, though. For Triple-A titles, DX is still king. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes. OpenGL will always be playing second fiddle to DX, for better, for worse.

I'd agree with you if all Triple-A writers moved 100% of their code to OpenGL. But there are limitations to it that they have a lot of trouble getting around. DX makes it far easier and less expensive to deliver the effects and game play they're all after.

(OpenCL has no real place in this discussion, unfortunately).

As long as Xbox keeps using DX, Open GL will never be the primary API library for games.

 

[abluehaze]

It isn't, though. For Triple-A titles, DX is still king. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes. OpenGL will always be playing second fiddle to DX, for better, for worse.

I'd agree with you if all Triple-A writers moved 100% of their code to OpenGL. But there are limitations to it that they have a lot of trouble getting around. DX makes it far easier and less expensive to deliver the effects and game play they're all after.

(OpenCL has no real place in this discussion, unfortunately).

According to Valve they're getting better performance and framerates using Open GL in Linux for steam OS than in windows with Direct X.

For some bizarre reason Apple always insists on using some old ass version of Open GL. If Steam OS takes off it could.benefit us Mac gamers and finally level the playing field with Windows as far as gaming goes.

 

[goMac]

Games can take advantage of a second GPU without crossfire for things like Physics, some shader effects like smoke, turbulence and hair dynamics, fluids etc but the game developers have to write that code themselves. OSx apparently does this for the last two versions so the second GPU isn't always sat idle and unused but I can't verify this, just snippets on the net suggesting how OSx works

There is no automatic support.

Since Snow Leopard developers have had the ability to write code to split tasks between GPUs however they want, but OS X doesn't do anything automatically.

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According to Valve they're getting better performance and framerates using Open GL in Linux for steam OS than in windows with Direct X.

For some bizarre reason Apple always insists on using some old ass version of Open GL. If Steam OS takes off it could.benefit us Mac gamers and finally level the playing field with Windows as far as gaming goes.

The version in Mavericks is pretty recent. Recent enough it shouldn't be a huge issue.

 

[abluehaze]

There is no automatic support.

Since Snow Leopard developers have had the ability to write code to split tasks between GPUs however they want, but OS X doesn't do anything automatically.

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The version in Mavericks is pretty recent. Recent enough it shouldn't be a huge issue.

The version of Open GL in Mavericks is 4.1 which was released in 2010 according to Wikipedia and the current version used by Steam OS is 4.4 which was released in July of 2013. Apple needs to get on the ball.

 

[2128506]

I did read in one review that in OSX they were getting 58-59 fps in D3 with high settings in 1440 which is the same as a new iMac with 780m. 58-59 fps in a year+ old game is pretty poor for a 4k+ machine.

I'm pretty sure there're lots of bigtower 10K+ workstations hosting a farm of Teslas, which will deliver even poorer FPS. Same as Ferrari cars being bad at towing stuff. 🙄

In OS X all games would use single GPU, so no surprises.

In Bootcamp, if game works on Crossfire - now that is a different can of worms. 🙂 The fact that BF4 was at least playable in 4K speaks a lot, it's a powerful machine for games too.

 

[JordanNZ]

The version of Open GL in Mavericks is 4.1 which was released in 2010 according to Wikipedia and the current version used by Steam OS is 4.4 which was released in July of 2013. Apple needs to get on the ball.

Point me to a game on any platform that uses OpenGL 4.4... And while you're at it, point me to any card outside of the NVIDA family that runs that spec version.

The first lot of AAA games with a OpenGL 4+ backend on any platform will probably arrive on OSX.

 

[shaunp]

Their game focus is on the iPad, I'm afraid.

For now.

 

[iSayuSay]

but on a windows machine you will get a virus as soon as you connect to the internet and all that stuff will be irrelevant

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and i am interested in gaming fps rates too, especially in 4k

LOL .. get a virus as soon as connected to the internet? What do you use? Windows 95?

I use my iMac 50/50 between BootCamp and OSX, and I have no antivirus on the bootcamp side. And I connected to the internet, like everyday. By your logic my computer would be blown to pieces by viruses, then?

Guess what? It's clean as hell. And guess again? There was one time the Windows installation help me fix booting problem on OSX side, otherwise I need to reinstall everything from scratches, on my Mac. Talking about the irony. 🙄

You must've live under the rock all the time then.

 

[abluehaze]

So, we still don't have anyone that can provide any gaming performance results on the nMP?

 

[wildmac]

For now.

Eh.. I think Apple's focus on iOS is going to continue. And their gaming support will continue to be focused there.

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So, we still don't have anyone that can provide any gaming performance results on the nMP?

I did have one of the buyers run a Warcraft test, and the results weren't amazing. I wouldn't expect anything great unless you are going to boot Windows and run them there.

 

[slughead]

LOL .. get a virus as soon as connected to the internet? What do you use? Windows 95?

I think 10 years is long enough to clear the name of a tech company. That's just an example of someone who clearly never uses a piece of tech going off a bunch of old information.

I think he's referring to a vulnerability in Win98 where bots would root them within minutes of being connected. 98 is so rare anymore I doubt it's even still true.

Windows 7 (2009) is secure enough for most people as long as you don't use Outlook or IE. Microsoft's first decent OS. The only argument against using Bootcamp for games is that it's inconvenient, takes up space, and you have to buy windows (ostensibly, at least).

Of course, I never got a virus running Windows 2000...

 

[Gav Mack]

I think 10 years is long enough to clear the name of a tech company. That's just an example of someone who clearly never uses a piece of tech going off a bunch of old information.

I think he's referring to a vulnerability in Win98 where bots would root them within minutes of being connected. 98 is so rare anymore I doubt it's even still true.

Windows 7 (2009) is secure enough for most people as long as you don't use Outlook or IE. Microsoft's first decent OS. The only argument against using Bootcamp for games is that it's inconvenient, takes up space, and you have to buy windows (ostensibly, at least).

Of course, I never got a virus running Windows 2000...

Think he's on about XP pre sp2 in 2004 which would get infected within minutes or even seconds by Trojans if directly connected to the internet (eg plugged directly into a cable modem or dial up modem/adsl pppoa with usb) and not behind a router or firewall. SP2's firewall and DEP made those a thing of the past - a decade ago! A very old stick to beat with indeed.

I didn't get a virus running win 2k but at first I got a lot of blue screens with the rubbish drivers. Though I recall 10.1 with kernel panics wasn't a bundle of fun either, those were the buggy days indeed!

 

[slughead]

Think he's on about XP pre sp2 in 2004 which would get infected within minutes or even seconds by Trojans if directly connected to the internet (eg plugged directly into a cable modem or dial up modem/adsl pppoa with usb) and not behind a router or firewall. SP2's firewall and DEP made those a thing of the past - a decade ago! A very old stick to beat with indeed.

Ah, that must be what I was thinking of.

I didn't get a virus running win 2k but at first I got a lot of blue screens with the rubbish drivers. Though I recall 10.1 with kernel panics wasn't a bundle of fun either, those were the buggy days indeed!

And let's not forget that 10.0 was just one big festering virus of uselessness 🙂

 

[Gav Mack]

Ah, that must be what I was thinking of.



And let's not forget that 10.0 was just one big festering virus of uselessness 🙂

I did actually mean to say nought but it was so short lived I've moulded both zero and one into my mind into one big pile of pain slowness and hurt. OS 9.1 anyone? - yes please 😀

 

[MacsRgr8]

Windows 7 (2009) is secure enough for most people as long as you don't use Outlook or IE. Microsoft's first decent OS.

LOL... IE and Outlook are probably the two most used apps on Win 7... 🙄

 

[slughead]

LOL... IE and Outlook are probably the two most used apps on Win 7... 🙄

They're not required for gaming, last time I checked.

 

[MacsRgr8]

They're not required for gaming, last time I checked.

That's true.

 

[apolloa]

I'm still waiting for my nMP but I came across this video and they cover a bit of 4K gaming using a 8c/D700 setup.

Well, that should shut a few people up! Sooooo many blind PC gaming fanboy's out there, then again they slate the consoles, including the news ones. But I know people who have ditched PC's to play Battlefield 4 on the PS4 as they claim you get a very near PC experience without the hassle.
Anyway, 4K gaming, I wonder what PC hardware is required to do that? Dual high end GPU's for more money then the Mac Pro's D700 upgrade? Certainly impressive.

 

[slughead]

Well, that should shut a few people up! Sooooo many blind PC gaming fanboy's out there, then again they slate the consoles, including the news ones. But I know people who have ditched PC's to play Battlefield 4 on the PS4 as they claim you get a very near PC experience without the hassle.
Anyway, 4K gaming, I wonder what PC hardware is required to do that? Dual high end GPU's for more money then the Mac Pro's D700 upgrade? Certainly impressive.

A 780Ti will do about as well as this for $700. Single GPU will give you a better experience with less stuttering as well. Personally I'd rather run it at 1440P with all the effects.

The D700 "upgrade"--with upgrade being the operative word--doesn't take into account that you're giving up the Dual D300. Say those are $200 each (ridiculously conservative if you're calling these FirePros). That means you're paying $1400 for dual D700. $1400 is the same as Dual 780Ti in SLI which will absolutely destroy the nMP.

So yes, you can pay an extra $1000 on top of your $3000 computer ($4000 total) and still get blown away by a $2000 gaming PC running GTX780Ti in SLI.

If you're really trying to "shut the fanboys up", you're going to have to do better than a rig running 2 year old technology under-clocked by 12-30% running in Crossfire. This level of performance is showing up in notebooks nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, this is an excellent PC for gaming, but don't think the PC market is standing still.

Edit: As for the consoles, the high end gaming market for PCs and PC components has never been better. PC gaming is bigger and better now than it's ever been. The new consoles are joke compared to even basic gaming PCs, and they're using the same components! I predict when the Steambox comes out and starts getting popular, the era of the proprietary console OS will be over. More choices = better.