[Gaming] Returning iMac 5k for iMac 2013?

[Astelith]

Honestly I cannot understand how I can play wow in 2.7k with my 2011 iMac (i7 512 ssd 24gb ram M6770) with an average fps per session (1-2 hours of questing and instances) of 35+ (min 20 when zoning) with everything on good/ultra except view distance set on fair and the effects set to low and a brand new model seems having issues.
I believe that with some tweaking is possible to play wow in 5k, there's a lot of settings that osx manage very poorly and it will drop your fps drastically and doing almost no significant improvement to the graphics.
Everything on ultra makes no sense, you have to play with it, and also set vsync or a max framerate at 60fps help to keep the GPU runs cooler (no benefit to have more than 60fps and 100% GPU power means heat that means fan spinning loud).

With my settings and the poor 6770 I can play in istances at 40fps on average (titan panel performance).

Try to set everythings on low and start pushing up with texture resolution, environment and ground clutter on ultra and only then start rise the other but you will see that the main graphic wuality is made of those 3 settings.
The effects part is to do after optimizing the previous two.


P.s.: I'm waiting a 5k with i7 ssd and m295x, If I'm lucky in 10 days I can have it and I will make videos and tests

 

[vir3l]

Hello all!

A while ago, I was deciding between an iMac 5k and an iMac 2013 (both maxed out) with a focus on the gaming aspect/performance (I mainly play WoW). I eventually went with the iMac 5k because well, it's the newest model with a pretty decent mGPU.

The machine arrived about 3 days ago (after a 2.5 week wait), but aside from the stunning clarity on desktop processes, I was rather underwhelmed by its performance and aesthetics while playing WoW. Playing at 2560 x 1440, while churning out decent FPS on high settings, made for a very blurred out picture. Increasing the resolution to low 3k reduces the fuzziness, at the cost of FPS of course.

I have half the mind to return the 5k for the iMac 2013 (780m) because it doesn't really make sense settling for a poorer quality picture at 2560 x 1440 on a 5k, when at native resolution (2560 x 1440) on an iMac 2013, the picture is presumably much sharper. Now I'm not a hardcore gamer, but after a long, long day at work, all I really want to do is to play WoW seamlessly without being bothered by a blurry screen. I went with the iMac 5k because most gaming reviews at 2560 x 1440 were positive; but none mentioned the tradeoff in terms of graphic quality.

That said, I'm a little hmm... sad (?) that I'll be essentially trading a brand new model for an old one that has been on the market for a year plus. This is where I need a bit of objective help. I have the disposable income, so budget is no issue. Just to be clear, I'm deciding once more between the two iMac models, and nothing else.

Now I know that there's been a lot of hype surrounding the iMac 5k—it being an Apple masterpiece etc.. But I'm looking for an objective opinion from a gaming point of view (performance/aesthetics).

Given the fact that the machine is intended for work (mostly word processing/presentations/internet) and more for gaming (only WoW for now), am I being rational/reasonable in giving up my iMac 5k for the iMac 2013 for a higher quality gaming experience? What do I stand to lose/gain?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

exactely the same situation here. returned my 5k for a late 2013 which I'm very happy with now (i5/780m). no fan noise, no heat issues, no lags –*it just works. wow runs 60+ fps with good settings on os x and 60+ fps with high/ultra settings under bootcamp.

after 3 hours of molten core (40 man raid) I could slighty hear the fan while on high settings and a lot of spells going on.

the only thing I regret is that I didn't return my 5k imac sooner to get the wow-factor of the imac again.

late 2013 just feels snappier, also when browsing, youtubing etc. even though i only have i5 (vs i7) and fusion drive (vs ssd) compared with the 5k imac which just didn't feel quite ready to be released with so many day 1 bugs.

it's a pitty that downsampling on the imac 5k looks that bad and uses almost the same gpu power than native 5k resolution. imac 5k pretty much looks awesome on paper bad after couple of days in use you realize it's not paper but real-life use that decides awesomeness. and if you just use your imac 5k for browsing and iphoto... well, it's a bit overkill imho.

 

[steve62388]

exactely the same situation here. returned my 5k for a late 2013 which I'm very happy with now (i5/780m). no fan noise, no heat issues, no lags –*it just works. wow runs 60+ fps with good settings on os x and 60+ fps with high/ultra settings under bootcamp.

after 3 hours of molten core (40 man raid) I could slighty hear the fan while on high settings and a lot of spells going on.

the only thing I regret is that I didn't return my 5k imac sooner to get the wow-factor of the imac again.

late 2013 just feels snappier, also when browsing, youtubing etc. even though i only have i5 (vs i7) and fusion drive (vs ssd) compared with the 5k imac which just didn't feel quite ready to be released with so many day 1 bugs.

it's a pitty that downsampling on the imac 5k looks that bad and uses almost the same gpu power than native 5k resolution. imac 5k pretty much looks awesome on paper bad after couple of days in use you realize it's not paper but real-life use that decides awesomeness. and if you just use your imac 5k for browsing and iphoto... well, it's a bit overkill imho.

If Apple had dropped the price of the 2013 iMac's I could understand your thinking, but they didn't. The price difference between a maxed out 2013 iMac and 5k iMac here in the UK is £320, I assume the differential is similar elsewhere in the world. This excludes a RAM upgrade because you can get that cheaper elsewhere.

For that £320 you get a 4Ghz CPU vs 3.5Ghz, Thunderbolt 2 vs 1, a GPU that's not two generations old (780M -> 880M -> 980M), and the big one is a 5K screen. Although I concede the M295X looks to be somewhere between a 880M and 970M. It seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[platzypus]

If Apple had dropped the price of the 2013 iMac's I could understand your thinking, but they didn't. The price difference between a maxed out 2013 iMac and 5k iMac here in the UK is £320, I assume the differential is similar elsewhere in the world. This excludes a RAM upgrade because you can get that cheaper elsewhere.

For that £320 you get a 4Ghz CPU vs 3.5Ghz, Thunderbolt 2 vs 1, a GPU that's not two generations old (780M -> 880M -> 980M), and the big one is a 5K screen. Although I concede the M295X looks to be somewhere between a 880M and 970M. It seems like a no brainer to me.

(Sad to say) that's exactly how I rationalised keeping this iMac 5k, eventually. The price difference between a maxed out iMac 2013 and a 5k is just too narrow. On my side of the world, it's just a $100 margin with a 512GB SSD on both. It's mainly because the base spec of the iMac 2013 is a 1T mechanical hard-drive, while for the iMac 5k, it's already a 1T Fusion. The additional cost you have to bear to get to SSD is a lot more on the iMac 2013 than the iMac 5k.

So after all that back-and-forth mental turmoil, and with the clock ticking on my return window (6 days left), I'm quite decided on sticking with the 5k. At most, I'll have to be more adaptive and run WoW on Bootcamp if things really get dismal.

 

[Seramir]

For that £320 you get a 4Ghz CPU vs 3.5Ghz, Thunderbolt 2 vs 1, a GPU that's not two generations old (780M -> 880M -> 980M), and the big one is a 5K screen. Although I concede the M295X looks to be somewhere between a 880M and 970M. It seems like a no brainer to me.

The reasons behind him returning the 5K iMac for the 2013 iMac is not because of specs, but because of actual performance while using the machine.

Why is that with such improved specs over the 2013 and yet the new machine has worse performance? Something tells me it's not designed very well, especially given the 5K display requiring more power than the AMD chip Apple decided to put into one.

 

[platzypus]

Vir3l, how does the desktop clarity look like on the 2013 iMac compared to the iMac 5k? That's also one of the reasons why I'm deciding to keep it; I've become so used to retina resolution (having worked on an rMBP for the past 2 years), that I'm afraid the desktop quality will pale in comparison on the 2013 iMac.

 

[steve62388]

The reasons behind him returning the 5K iMac for the 2013 iMac is not because of specs, but because of actual performance while using the machine.

Why is that with such improved specs over the 2013 and yet the new machine has worse performance? Something tells me it's not designed very well, especially given the 5K display requiring more power than the AMD chip Apple decided to put into one.

I prefer to deal in facts, it seems a lot of people have a feeling. The only authoritive comment I have seen is YouTube video of stuttering in Mission Control, and that turned out to be Yosemite as it is present on lots of models.

Can you please provide empirical evidence of worse performance instead of being all emotive about it?

 

[Kritzmire]

ive been playing wow in 5k at "good settings" with certain things like character detail and shadowing at ultra. the fans are loud but the computer hasnt ever gotten hot to the touch even after hours of gameplay
i generally have music on and i dont even hear the fans though

im curious if i should try out bootcamp, but i really hate windows zzz

 

[largefarrva]

ive been playing wow in 5k at "good settings" with certain things like character detail and shadowing at ultra. the fans are loud but the computer hasnt ever gotten hot to the touch even after hours of gameplay
i generally have music on and i dont even hear the fans though

im curious if i should try out bootcamp, but i really hate windows zzz

What's your fps playing at 5k with settings set at good? Assuming you have the 295 gpu.....what cpu do you have? The i7 or i5?

 

[Truefan31]

This is makin me wanna wait a year for nvidia or an improved amd

 

[jbuk1]

The reasons behind him returning the 5K iMac for the 2013 iMac is not because of specs, but because of actual performance while using the machine.

Why is that with such improved specs over the 2013 and yet the new machine has worse performance? Something tells me it's not designed very well, especially given the 5K display requiring more power than the AMD chip Apple decided to put into one.

I must have missed the bit where he posted benchmarks and proof showing this drop in performance?

Oh that's right. He didn't.

 

[CuteBaby]

I've become so used to retina resolution (having worked on an rMBP for the past 2 years), that I'm afraid the desktop quality will pale in comparison on the 2013 iMac.

I see you've also posted this issue at the WoW forums. A solution was suggested in that thread where you had to follow the instructions in a sticky post.

Here is a quick summary of the steps to implement this solution:

1. Exit WoW completely if it is currently running.

2. Open the Terminal app and enter the following command, then press the <Enter> key:

defaults write com.blizzard.worldofwarcraft DesktopModeIsDefault 1

3. Set your desktop resolution in System Preferences to:

2560x1440 (Retina)

That should be all there is to it. You need only perform the above steps once.

From then on, each time you play WoW, it should run without the blurriness you've described.

And, apparently, you should still be able to enjoy the nice Retina experience, for which you purchased the 5k iMac, with all your non-WoW activity.

Let us know if this resolves the issue for you!

 

[platzypus]

I see you've also posted this issue at the WoW forums. A solution was suggested in that thread where you had to follow the instructions in a sticky post.

Here is a quick summary of the steps to implement this solution:

1. Exit WoW completely if it is currently running.

2. Open the Terminal app and enter the following command, then press the <Enter> key:

defaults write com.blizzard.worldofwarcraft DesktopModeIsDefault 1

3. Set your desktop resolution in System Preferences to:

2560x1440 (Retina)

That should be all there is to it. You need only perform the above steps once.

From then on, each time you play WoW, it should run without the blurriness you've described.

And, apparently, you should still be able to enjoy the nice Retina experience, for which you purchased the 5k iMac, with all your non-WoW activity.

Let us know if this resolves the issue for you!

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but it didn't quite solve the blurriness issue. My desktop resolution has always been at retina, so I'm not quite sure how this helps. I've read Tia's sticky on the WoW Mac forums, but I don't quite understand how this workaround works. The blurriness comes from dropping to 2560x1440 from 5k in the WoW settings, not from anything else.

 

[CuteBaby]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but it didn't quite solve the blurriness issue. My desktop resolution has always been at retina, so I'm not quite sure how this helps. I've read Tia's sticky on the WoW Mac forums, but I don't quite understand how this workaround works. The blurriness comes from dropping to 2560x1440 from 5k in the WoW settings, not from anything else.

By default, retina Macs have 'Best for Retina' selected in display preferences.

In the case of the iMac 5k, this means "show a screen size of 2560x1440 but in Retina mode (i.e. using 4 times the number of pixels per dot)".

This is the same as selecting '2560x1440 (Retina)' after selecting the 'Scaled' option, but it is possible that WoW needs this specific option to be selected (in order to recognize it), even though it means the exact same thing as 'Best for Retina'.

Now, once you have '2560x1440 (Retina)' selected (and not 'Best for Retina' — regardless of the fact that it accomplishes the exact same thing), and have also performed the other steps such as running the Terminal command, then according to the sticky, when you run WoW, it should now only show resolutions up to 2560x1440 (nothing higher such as 5K would be listed), and that's the one you'd select.

In other words, now, WoW is no longer a "dropping" from 5K to 2560x1440. It just does 2560x1440, because that's the highest option that you can select in WoW (if you've done the steps correctly). There's simply no "dropping"!

Once this is done, according to the sticky, and you're running WoW in full-screen mode, the blurriness should be gone.

Can you confirm this?

 

[platzypus]

By default, retina Macs have 'Best for Retina' selected in display preferences.

In the case of the iMac 5k, this means "show a screen size of 2560x1440 but in Retina mode (i.e. using 4 times the number of pixels per dot)".

This is the same as selecting '2560x1440 (Retina)' after selecting the 'Scaled' option, but it is possible that WoW needs this specific option to be selected (in order to recognize it), even though it means the exact same thing as 'Best for Retina'.

Now, once you have '2560x1440 (Retina)' selected (and not 'Best for Retina' — regardless of the fact that it accomplishes the exact same thing), and have also performed the other steps such as running the Terminal command, then according to the sticky, when you run WoW, it should now only show resolutions up to 2560x1440 (nothing higher such as 5K would be listed), and that's the one you'd select.

In other words, now, WoW is no longer a "dropping" from 5K to 2560x1440. It just does 2560x1440, because that's the highest option that you can select in WoW (if you've done the steps correctly). There's simply no "dropping"!

Once this is done, according to the sticky, and you're running WoW in full-screen mode, the blurriness should be gone.

Can you confirm this?

Just tried this again, specifically selecting Scaled --> Best for Retina. It doesn't work, sadly. Checked System Prefs again, and it's back to Best for Display. =(

(i.e. WoW still shows 5k and not 2560x1440 as the highest possible resolution.)

 

[CuteBaby]

Just tried this again, specifically selecting Scaled --> Best for Retina. It doesn't work, sadly. Checked System Prefs again, and it's back to Best for Display. =(

1. If you hold down the <Option> key while clicking 'Scaled', are you able to select '2560x1440 (Retina)'?

2. When you then open WoW, does it show '2560x1440' as the maximum resolution in the list? Or does the list still go all the way up to 5k?

 

[platzypus]

1. If you hold down the <Option> key while clicking 'Scaled', are you able to select '2560x1440 (Retina)'?

Yep, there's also a low resolution mode, but that's just atrocious.

2. When you then open WoW, does it show '2560x1440' as the maximum resolution in the list? Or does the list still go all the way up to 5k?

Nope, it's still shows resolutions up to 5k.

 

[silvetti]

Oh for goodness sake. Back up your apparent statements with tested facts. And don't cherry pick them because you know we will find out the rest.

I have a iMac 27 2013 and if I play any game at 1080p resolution (to get higher fps) it looks like ****.
You should always play or use the screen at native, in my case 1440p.

So I completely understand the problem with 5k screens.

PS. I run all games in Windows (bootcamp), OSX is useless as the fps drop is quite harsh.

 

[CuteBaby]

Nope, it's still shows resolutions up to 5k.

If you type the following in Terminal and then press <Enter>, what is the result?

defaults read com.blizzard.worldofwarcraft DesktopModeIsDefault

The correct result would be simply the number 1 on a single line.

If, on the other hand, you see a result like this instead...

The domain/default pair of (/Users/username/Library/Preferences/com.blizzard.worldofwarcraft, DesktopModeIsDefault) does not exist

...that means that the original step that involved the Terminal was not performed correctly.

 

[platzypus]

If you type the following in Terminal and then press <Enter>, what is the result?

defaults read com.blizzard.worldofwarcraft DesktopModeIsDefault

The correct result would be simply the number 1 on a single line.

If, on the other hand, you see a result like this instead...

The domain/default pair of (/Users/username/Library/Preferences/com.blizzard.worldofwarcraft, DesktopModeIsDefault) does not exist

...that means that the original step that involved the Terminal was not performed correctly.

Yep, I got '1' on the next line. It just doesn't seem to change anything.

 

[CuteBaby]

Yep, I got '1' on the next line. It just doesn't seem to change anything.

That could mean that those instructions in the sticky do not work on RiMacs for some reason.

Try posting to your WoW forum thread again with what you did via System Preferences and Terminal, as well as the results (the '1' on the next line, and the 5k listing still showing in WoW), and see what they've got to say about that!

 

[platzypus]

That could mean that those instructions in the sticky do not work on RiMacs for some reason.

Try posting to your WoW forum thread again with what you did via System Preferences and Terminal, as well as the results (the '1' on the next line, and the 5k listing still showing in WoW), and see what they've got to say about that!

It's alright, I'll put this to rest at this point.

Thanks for all the help uhh... CuteBaby, and everyone else who have contributed your two cents.

I upgraded my RAM from 8GB to 16GB, and it's surprisingly made a world of difference. Turn stutter has been reduced, and I can maintain a comfortable 40fps on mostly High settings (including Shadows), at 3342x1880. There are occasional dips in against far-reaching environments, even with View Distance set at Good; or when there are 50+ players pewpewing at the same time. I usually turn Shadows down to Good under these circumstances.

So moral of the story: don't go in expecting to play at 5k, and upgrade RAM to 16GB minimum.

 

[CuteBaby]

No worries — and thanks for taking the time to post these updates!

 

[leenak]

There have been many, many threads and comments which indicate that if your purpose is gaming then the 5k makes no sense. I love my 5k iMac, I love gaming on it but that is a small portion of what I do. Basically, you will get a non-5k experience in gaming but everything else will be 5k.

 

[vir3l]

Vir3l, how does the desktop clarity look like on the 2013 iMac compared to the iMac 5k? That's also one of the reasons why I'm deciding to keep it; I've become so used to retina resolution (having worked on an rMBP for the past 2 years), that I'm afraid the desktop quality will pale in comparison on the 2013 iMac.

desktop clarity is about the same except for fonts which look amazing on 5k. in daily use no big difference though and late 2013 is way snappier than new 5k. I was afraid of clarity as well as I switched from 5k to mb air but 27' non-5k is still brilliant. anyway theres practically no content for 5k currently.